Can we correctly interpret the Scriptures?

[pnewton]

FYI - This thread has really fixated on one topic. To go back to the original topic, I guess you can say that we can’t know everything. Suffice it that we can know enough. The Catholic Church allows for a range of beliefs in this area, from Thomist to Molinist. I submit that if the Church has not set this in stone, neither should we.

Two things have been declared false; double predestination, and free will apart from God’s grace. In between, we are free to choose. My philosophy is to hope that I am predestined, but live like I am not. My belief is that I do not know.

 

[spina1953]

In the case of sin whether mortal or venial, Matt.18:21-22, where Jesus says to forgive seventy time not seven. In other words to keep forgiving every time one asks for forgiveness. So no mater how many times one is in sin mortal even, God forgives those who ask. Since no one is perfect, all are prone to sin. To say OSAS can work implies that a person can be perfect and never sin again, Or that one can commit all the sins they want but since they are OSAS they get to go to heaven. This goes against everything found in the NT concerning what Jesus taught and what the Apostles preached and taught.

This is why it is difficult for the average person to correctly interpret Scripture, since most do not have the necessary disciplines in order to correctly understand all the various literary forms used in Scripture to convey the meaning intended by the author or authors,the Magisterium explains the truth of what Scripture says and means. This does not mean that we should not read Scripture but only that we need to be aware that we might not completely understand what Scripture is saying to us and guidance by the Catholic Church helps us to better understand God’s Word to us. The Church expects us to read Scripture, but does not expect us to decide for ourselves whatever interpretations we suits us, as we can be misguided by our own faulty understanding of a Sriptural passage.

 

[fhansen]

God bless Fhansen,

There is a 500 years debate between Catholics and Protestants the way God saves His elect.

Protestants vary on this among each other. The Church of God, OTOH, settled it centuries** ago. Justification and sanctification cannot be separated.

THE KEY TO UNDERSTAND

When a Protestant speaks about salvation always speaks Legal salvation/100 % Legal

Right of the elect to enter heaven (initial justification/salvation).

LEGAL SALVATION / 100 % IRREVOCABLE LEGAL RIGHT OF THE ELECT TO ENTER HEAVEN.

Legal salvation is by FAITH ALONE.

When a Catholic speaks about salvation always speaks Practical salvation.

Working on to be more just and more holy, plus to do other works as well.

Practical salvation is by FAITH + OUR WOKS BY CO-OPERATION WITH THE GRACE OF GOD.

THE WAY AS FOLLOWS – God saves us in three stages.

1. FIRST STAGE OF OUR SALVATION (Initial justification/salvation.)

As God’s children/His elect in this first stage of our salvation at our baptism we have

received 100 % Irrevocable Legal Right/Eligibility to enter heaven as God’s free gift.

Which is God’s gift of eternal life. – Rom.6:23.

Our 100 % Legal Right/Eligibility to go to heaven is irrevocable.

Christ merited for us paid in full on the cross.

THIS MEANS

We need to understand:

It is a big difference between our 100 % Irrevocable Legal Salvation (at the first stage of

our salvation/initial justification), and our practical salvation (at the second stage of our salvation). – The two are not the same.

a. LEGALLY SAVED / LEGAL SALVATION / INITIAL JUSTIFICATION

At our baptism as elect we have been Irrevocably, and Legally 100 % Saved.

Baptism gives new life; it does not force us to retain it. We can die again. Just as Adam wasn’t forced to obey, neither are we. As Augustine put it, which Aquinas quoted in his article on penance, “He Who created thee without thee, will not justify thee without thee.” Man’s will is always involved, and, in fact, the canons from Trent session 6 dealing with the will-monergism vs synergism IOW-are some of the very canons/teachings over which agreement wasn’t realized in the Joint Declaration on Justification.

All of this means that the Baptized/saved are not necessarily among the irrevocably elected. Aquinas even said that, properly understood, names can be blotted out of the Book of Life. .And perseverance doesn’t mean that sin is excluded for the elect. It only means that, by the end of their lives, they will die in a state of grace regardless of what transpired, including sin and repentance, between Baptism and then. They will have persevered. They fought the good fight and ultimately won, with the help of grace, in their struggle against sin.

 

[fhansen]

We need to understand that we’re first of all saved by grace. Any responses of ours to that grace which are desired by God are simply His requirements for salvation, according to His perfect wisdom. And all of those responses are themselves gifts of grace, as God works in us, but gifts that can still always be rejected, ignored, dismissed. In any case God desires from us, faith, first of all, also contrition/sorrow/repentance for sin, participation in the sacraments, a continuous walking and growing in the virtue of love with works that He’s prepared for us to do flowing from that love. And Matt 25:31-46 tells us how we’ll be judged by those works, on that love, IOW.

God isn’t seeking to merely save a bunch of wretched worms, for some reason, but rather to build something, something great, creatures who’ve grown in integrity and nobility and justice by their increasing willingness to obey, by their increasing love as they’re transformed into His image. He demands that we do this, not as a sort of side benefit of being justified but rather as a matter of our justification, with our best interest and happiness at heart.

Anyway, from Trent session 6, chap 8:
“…none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.”

The Trent also agrees our FIRST STAGE OF SALVATION (INITIAL JUSTIFICATION /

SALVATION) is by faith alone because we contribute nothing to it.

When the Trent speaks about salvation, most of the time speaks about our PRACTICAL

SALVATION (the second stage of our salvation) which is FAITH + WORKS.

This simply isn’t true. We should let Trent, along with the current catechism, speak for themselves:

**On the fruit of Justification, that is, on the merit of good works, and on the nature of that merit.
Before men, therefore, who have been justified in this manner,-whether they have preserved uninterruptedly the grace received, or whether they have recovered it when lost,-are to be set the words of the Apostle: Abound in every good work, knowing that your labour is not in vain in the Lord; for God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name; and, do not lose your confidence, which hath a great reward. And, for this cause, life eternal is to be proposed to those working well unto the end, and hoping in God, both as a grace mercifully promised to the sons of God through Jesus Christ, and as a reward which is according to the promise of God Himself, to be faithfully rendered to their good works and merits.

CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

CANON XXVI.-If any one saith, that the just ought not, for their good works done in God, to expect and hope for an eternal recompense from God, through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if so be that they persevere to the end in well doing and in keeping the divine commandments; let him be anathema.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts."62

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.**

We don’t work in order to gain eternal life first of all, rather we work due to the love God has planted, cultivated, and grown in us, with our cooperation.

**“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” **St Basil of Caesarea

 

[fhansen]

If we live our Christian life in uncertainty, fear and doubt we can NEVER be qualified to do

supernatural works because our work instead of actual grace energized by the spirit of

slavery, the fear of hell and OUR WORKS REJECTED BY GOD.

‘Thou shalt love’ can be said to be the most basic command of God to man. It’s a command which is not so easy for us to comply with, but a command the fulfillment of which is the very source of our justice and happiness. Its attainment is a process, made possible by the New Covenant and the communion with God that is its purpose. We’re here to learn why and how to achieve it. We come to freely embrace this virtue as the highest value only over time. When we finally, fully, love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves our justice can be said to be complete. OTOH, are there any limits to love?

 

[LatinRight]

Baptism gives new life; it does not force us to retain it. We can die again.

And all of those responses are themselves gifts of grace, as God works in us, but gifts that can still always be rejected, ignored, dismissed.

And perseverance doesn’t mean that sin is excluded for the elect.

**God bless Fhansen,

THE CATHOLIC DE FIDE DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect denies your above statements.

Venial sin is not excluded, mortal sin is absolutely excluded! – The Scripture bellow also positively proves it!

THE PATTERN OF SALVATION OF THE ELECT

The sequence of events in the salvation of the children of God:

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

Romans 8:30
And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

1. Foreknew
2. Predestined
3. Called
4. Justified
5. Glorified

No surprises, everything goes according to God’s plan of salvation.

John 5:24; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, HAS

EVERLASTING LIFE; he does NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

1 John 5:13; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that

you have ETERNAL LIFE.”

Rom.11:29; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“For the gifts and the call of God are IRREVOCABLE.”

As you see Fhansen, the Scripture also deny your above statements.

If the elect could commit mortal sins they would only have PERIODICAL LIFE AND DEATH.

If the elect could commit mortal sins their irrevocable call, their irrevocable gift of

salvation, their irrevocable gift of everlasting life would have to be revoked which is a

THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

If you Fhansen tell a Bible illiterate Christian that the Gift of Finale Perseverance doesn’t

protect the elect from committing mortal sins might believe you but if you tell that a Bible literate

Catholic, he will tell you it is written, and shows you the appropriate Bible

verses and proves you elect don’t commit mortal sins.

Continue**

 

[LatinRight]

**CAF has an excellent article Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize

The magazine had a sad joke on the cover which said,

Q: “What do you get if you cross a Catholic with a Jehovah’s Witness?”

A: “Someone who knocks on your door and says nothing.”

Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize

How to move the stumbling blocks of FEAR and IGNORANCE

By: Hector Molina

Quote: It’s no secret that Catholics aren’t renowned for their evangelistic prowess or

missionary zeal. This is despite the fact that the last several pontiffs, including Pope

Francis, have written and spoken extensively on the subject, which has become a

renewed priority for the Church.

In Matthew 28:19, our Lord enjoined the apostles, “[G]o therefore and make disciples of all

nations.” In Mark 16:15, Jesus commands them, “[G]o into all the world and preach the

gospel to the whole creation.” This is what is referred to as the Great Commission. Sadly,

for many Catholics, the Great Commission has become the Great Omission.

Why is this so? Why don’t Catholics as a whole evangelize?

FEAR

If you were to survey a group of Catholics about what holds them back from sharing the

Faith, the No. 1 response you would get is “Fear.” FEAR PARALYZES many

believers from living out their faith and sharing it with others.

There is a fundamental principle at work here, one summarized by the old Latin axiom

Nemo dat quod non habet (“No one gives WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE” what he does

not have”). One cannot share Christ if one has not first ENCOUNTERED CHRIST, or

effectively share the gospel without experiencing its power in his own life.

LACK OF ENCOUNTER

Evangelization in essence, like Christianity, is about an ENCOUNTER WITH THE RISEN

CHRIST encounter with the risen Christ that results in a life TRANSFORMED. The reason

why so many Christians in general—and Catholics in particular—fail to evangelize is

because they have YET TO encounter the Lord for themselves.

Pope Benedict XVI reminded us of this important truth in his apostolic exhortation,

Verbum Domini: “The Christian life is essentially marked by an encounter with Jesus

Christ, who calls us to follow him” (VD 72). Again, in his encyclical Deus Caritas Est, he

writes, “Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the

ENCOUNTER WITH AN EVENT, A PERSON, which gives life a NEW horizon and a

decisive direction” (DCE 1). End quote. Emphasize added.

My view:

When we Catholics focus on WHAT WE HAVE, instead of IGNORANTLY believe we can

lose WHAT WE HAVE, we will ENCOUNTER WITH AN EVENT, A PERSON, which gives

life a NEW horizon and a decisive direction.

As long as we IGNORANTLY believe, we can lose what we have ( we will have NO

ENCOUNTER WITH CHRIST, we continue to be PARALYZED, we knock on doors and

says nothing) OUR GREAT COMMISSION CONTINUE TO BE OUR GREAT OMISSION.

God bless

LatinRight**

 

[spina1953]

One thing bothers me and the question is how does anyone know they are of the elect and have been predestined? Can anyone know who they are and if it is the one believing they are of the elect or have been predestined? Do they know with certainty?

 

[LatinRight]

One thing bothers me and the question is how does anyone know they are of the elect and have been predestined? Can anyone know who they are and if it is the one believing they are of the elect or have been predestined? Do they know with certainty?

**God bless Spina,

AN IMPORTANT WARNING FOR ALL OF US! – 1 Cor.11:27-29.

1 Cor.11:27-29; The Eucharist is only for God’s children/elect.

No one free to partake in the Eucharist without self examination/self test.

If someone doesn’t believe he is an elect, not free to partake in the Eucharist because he

is partake in it without faith/unworthy manner and eating and drinking judgment upon himself.

We MUST DO THE FOLLOWING TEST (it is God’s COMMAND) and we MUST KNOW

THE TEST RESULT (it is God’s COMMAND), meaning:

We are God’s elect and we are free to partake in the Eucharist by faith as we KNOW who

we are/elect or we are not free to partake in the Eucharist because we have failed the test.

In 2 Cor.13:5-6 God has given us a COMMAND and we MUST obey it!

2 Cor.13:5-6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. TEST YOURSELVES.

Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? – unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

I hope YOU WILL FIND OUT that we have not failed. End quote.

When God has given the command to his children to do the test, God has also

given his children the ability to do the test and TO KNOW THE TEST RESULT.

For example of a test: – Test can be done many different ways.

TEST AS FOLLOWS

John 5:24; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, HAS

EVERLASTING LIFE; he does NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

1 John 5:13; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that

you have ETERNAL LIFE.”

Without being God’s children we could NOT believe the above word of God. – We would have

HUNDREDS EXCUSES WHY CAN’T WE BELIEVE IT.

IF we believe the above word of God we are God’s children/His elect.

We have not failed the test. – We are free to partake in the Eucharist.

IF we don’t believe the above word of God, (we have NO FAITH in the word of God, the line of

communication between God and us is still broken) we have failed the test.

God bless

LatinRight**

 

[spina1953]

Hi Latin Rite and God bless. I agree with you one what you posted. That being said there are those who interpret Scripture to mean that just because they believe in God and in Jesus the Christ they are of the elect and are predestined for heaven. The thing is Jesus did promise but that’s what it is a promise not a garrentee that one automatically goes to heaven. Christ is the judge so it will be Christ who decides who enters heaven or not.To just assume one is of the elect and predestined for heaven is presumption and not good at all as then its the individual who is deciding not Christ.

God does want everyone to enter heaven t be with Him because He is life. However, not everyone will enter heaven. Some will reject God while others think they do not need to do anything but believe in God and Christ. But the truth even the devil believes in God and in Christ, and that sure did not save him at all. So much more is needed and one way is by the fruits one does laying treasures in heaven that never rots away.

The real problem is so many think all they need to do is read Scripture and they understand and know what Scripture says and means when in truth so many have far different idea’s, understandings of what Scripture actually says and means. While we all need to read Scripture, we also need the Catholic Church to guide us in understanding Scripture so that we do not distort or misunderstand what Scripture says and means.

 

[fhansen]

**God bless Fhansen,

THE CATHOLIC DE FIDE** DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect denies your above statements.

Venial sin is not excluded, mortal sin is absolutely excluded! – The Scripture bellow also positively proves it!

THE PATTERN OF SALVATION OF THE ELECT

The sequence of events in the salvation of the children of God:

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

Romans 8:30
And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

1. Foreknew
2. Predestined
3. Called
4. Justified
5. Glorified

No surprises, everything goes according to God’s plan of salvation.

John 5:24; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, HAS

EVERLASTING LIFE; he does NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

1 John 5:13; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that

you have ETERNAL LIFE.”

Rom.11:29; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“For the gifts and the call of God are IRREVOCABLE.”

As you see Fhansen, the Scripture also deny your above statements.

If the elect could commit mortal sins they would only have PERIODICAL LIFE AND DEATH.

If the elect could commit mortal sins their irrevocable call, their irrevocable gift of

salvation, their irrevocable gift of everlasting life would have to be revoked which is a

THEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

If you Fhansen tell a Bible illiterate Christian that the Gift of Finale Perseverance doesn’t

protect the elect from committing mortal sins might believe you but if you tell that a Bible literate

Catholic, he will tell you it is written, and shows you the appropriate Bible

verses and proves you elect don’t commit mortal sins.

Continue

LR, your argument is still with the Church, the Church of God, the Roman Catholic Church. And not all bible-believing, bible literate Protestants agree with your position either. You’re one more private interpreter of Scripture who’s proven that we* cannot *necessarily “correctly interpret the Scriptures”. Otherwise, welcome to the office of the papacy!

Either way you’ve been shown the definitive teachings of the Church; it’s not at all difficult to determine that the Church teaches against 100% assurance of salvation, or that the elect can know for certain that they’re among the elect, or that perseverance equates to never committing a mortal sin. I’m sure you’re sincere, but sincerely in error.

 

[LatinRight]

Hi Latin Rite and God bless. I agree with you one what you posted. That being said there are those who interpret Scripture to mean that just because they believe in God and in Jesus the Christ they are of the elect and are predestined for heaven. The thing is Jesus did promise but that’s what it is a promise not a garrentee that one automatically goes to heaven. Christ is the judge so it will be Christ who decides who enters heaven or not.To just assume one is of the elect and predestined for heaven is presumption and not good at all as then its the individual who is deciding not Christ.

God does want everyone to enter heaven t be with Him because He is life. However, not everyone will enter heaven. Some will reject God while others think they do not need to do anything but believe in God and Christ. But the truth even the devil believes in God and in Christ, and that sure did not save him at all. So much more is needed and one way is by the fruits one does laying treasures in heaven that never rots away.

The real problem is so many think all they need to do is read Scripture and they understand and know what Scripture says and means when in truth so many have far different idea’s, understandings of what Scripture actually says and means. While we all need to read Scripture, we also need the Catholic Church to guide us in understanding Scripture so that we do not distort or misunderstand what Scripture says and means.

**God bless Spina.

THE CATHOLIC CHURC UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE by Fr. John Harden SJ.

Quote: “The Scriptures are holy because their main author is the all-holy God. But they

are also holy because they are able to sanctify those who READ the Bible as NO OTHER

LITERATURE in the world is capable of doing.

St. Thomas does not hesitate to speak of the Scriptures as a KIND OF SACRAMENT.

SIMULAR to what happens when we receive BAPTISM or the EUCHARIST.

The same Holy Spirit who first inspired the Bible CONTINUES TO ENLIGHTEN those who

now READ the Bible.” End quote.

[CCC 108]; Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.”

Christianity is a religion of the “Word” of God, “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living.”

If the Scriptures are not remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God,

must, through the Holy Spirit, “open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.” End quote.

As you see above Spina the Holy Spirit open your mind to understand the Scripture.

But you can close your mind and not to believe you can understand the Scripture.

Spina Christ telling personally TO YOU: – Please open your heart to His message.

John 5:24; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes Him who sent me, HAS

EVERLASTING LIFE; he does NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

The above message of Christ is personally to you Spina. It is easy to understand. There is no room for interpretation.

Christ saying to you Spina (His promises are absolute guaranty):

a. If you believe Him who sent me you have EVERLASTING LIFE.

b. You will NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

An elect of God never goes to judgment concerning heaven or hell, only their works will be judged but they can never lose their salvation.

Spina please get back your faith and put your faith into Christ’s promises and His sacrifice

on the cross (paid in full) for your salvation and don’t let anyone to take your faith away!

Probably helpful for you Spina if you study very carefully the following Bible verses:

Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:11, 24; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2et.2:1-3.

God bleass

LatinRight**

 

[fhansen]

**CAF has an excellent article Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize

The magazine had a sad joke on the cover which said,

Q: “What do you get if you cross a Catholic with a Jehovah’s Witness?”

A: “Someone who knocks on your door and says nothing.”

Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize**

How to move the stumbling blocks of FEAR and IGNORANCE

By: Hector Molina

Quote: It’s no secret that Catholics aren’t renowned for their evangelistic prowess or

missionary zeal. This is despite the fact that the last several pontiffs, including Pope

Francis, have written and spoken extensively on the subject, which has become a

renewed priority for the Church.

In Matthew 28:19, our Lord enjoined the apostles, “[G]o therefore and make disciples of all

nations.” In Mark 16:15, Jesus commands them, “[G]o into all the world and preach the

gospel to the whole creation.” This is what is referred to as the Great Commission. Sadly,

for many Catholics, the Great Commission has become the Great Omission.

Why is this so? Why don’t Catholics as a whole evangelize?

FEAR

If you were to survey a group of Catholics about what holds them back from sharing the

Faith, the No. 1 response you would get is “Fear.” FEAR PARALYZES many

believers from living out their faith and sharing it with others.

There is a fundamental principle at work here, one summarized by the old Latin axiom

Nemo dat quod non habet (“No one gives WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE” what he does

not have”). One cannot share Christ if one has not first ENCOUNTERED CHRIST, or

effectively share the gospel without experiencing its power in his own life.

LACK OF ENCOUNTER

Evangelization in essence, like Christianity, is about an ENCOUNTER WITH THE RISEN

CHRIST encounter with the risen Christ that results in a life TRANSFORMED. The reason

why so many Christians in general—and Catholics in particular—fail to evangelize is

because they have YET TO encounter the Lord for themselves.

Pope Benedict XVI reminded us of this important truth in his apostolic exhortation,

Verbum Domini: “The Christian life is essentially marked by an encounter with Jesus

Christ, who calls us to follow him” (VD 72). Again, in his encyclical Deus Caritas Est, he

writes, “Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the

ENCOUNTER WITH AN EVENT, A PERSON, which gives life a NEW horizon and a

decisive direction” (DCE 1). End quote. Emphasize added.

My view:

When we Catholics focus on WHAT WE HAVE, instead of IGNORANTLY believe we can

lose WHAT WE HAVE, we will ENCOUNTER WITH AN EVENT, A PERSON, which gives

life a NEW horizon and a decisive direction.

As long as we IGNORANTLY believe, we can lose what we have ( we will have NO

ENCOUNTER WITH CHRIST, we continue to be PARALYZED, we knock on doors and

says nothing) OUR GREAT COMMISSION CONTINUE TO BE OUR GREAT OMISSION.

God bless

LatinRight

Two dogmas from Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

God, by His eternal resolve of will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness. (De fide**)

Under this dogma Ott lists two properties:

Immutability, which I’ll summarize:
The number and names of the elect are fixed.

Uncertainty, with the full article, sans the Latin:
"The Council of Trent declared against Calvin, that certainty in regard to one’s predestination can be attained by special revelation only. Holy Scripture enjoins man to work out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil 3:12). He who imagines that he will stand should take care lest he fall (1 Cor 10:12). In spite of this uncertainty there are signs of predetermination which indicate a high probability of one’s predestination, e.g., a persevering practice of the virtues recommended in the eight beatitudes, frequent reception of Holy Communion, active love of one’s neighbor, love for Christ and for the Church, veneration of the Mother of God."

The grace by which one is justified can be lost, and is lost by every grievous sin. (De fide)

 

[LatinRight]

Two dogmas from Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

God, by His eternal resolve of will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness. (De fide**)

Under this dogma Ott lists two properties:

Immutability, which I’ll summarize:
The number and names of the elect are fixed.

Uncertainty, with the full article, sans the Latin:
"The Council of Trent declared against Calvin, that certainty in regard to one’s predestination can be attained by special revelation only. Holy Scripture enjoins man to work out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil 3:12). He who imagines that he will stand should take care lest he fall (1 Cor 10:12). In spite of this uncertainty there are signs of predetermination which indicate a high probability of one’s predestination, e.g., a persevering practice of the virtues recommended in the eight beatitudes, frequent reception of Holy Communion, active love of one’s neighbor, love for Christ and for the Church, veneration of the Mother of God."

The grace by which one is justified can be lost, and is lost by every grievous sin. (De fide)

**God bless Fhansen,

Congratulations, good post.

You know Fahnsen very well, God not only commanded us to KNOW our standing (elect

or reprobate) but He has also given us a command to test ALL THINGS before we

accept something as correct and we believe it. – 2 Cor.13:5-6; 1 Thess.5:21.

So in obedience of Gods command we could do a quick Bible test by test the two above

DE FIDE with the DE FIDE predestination of the elect.

And test all three. We would have the aid of the Holy Spirit to perform the test and to

KNOW the test results. – 1 John 2:26-27.

But let’s not harry with the test, first get down to the nitty-gritty.

We know God has given authority to Satan to test Job. – And Job was tested by Satan

with the authority of God.

Without God’s authority Satan could never test Job.

Nothing happen in the world without God’s authorization.

If we read Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4, 11, 24; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; etc.

We KNOW Satan has infiltrated the Church with his “undercover agents in sheep’s

clothing” (authorized by God) from the very beginning.

From Matt.13:30, we know Satan’s “undercover agents in sheep’s clothing” will be our

uninvited guests until Christ’s second coming.

Trough out in the Scriptures we have repeated warnings that we must take heed that no

one deceives us. – Christ’s repeated warnings: “Many false prophets will arise, if possible

even to deceive the elect.”

My question from you Fhansen:

What is God’s reason (we can be sure some greater good will come out from it) that He

has authorized Satan to infiltrate the Church?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

God bless

LatinRight**

 

[fhansen]

**God bless Fhansen,

Congratulations, good post.

You know Fahnsen very well, God not only commanded us to KNOW our standing (elect

or reprobate) but He has also given us a command to test ALL THINGS before we

accept something as correct and we believe it. – 2 Cor.13:5-6; 1 Thess.5:21.

So in obedience of Gods command we could do a quick Bible test by test the two above

DE FIDE with the DE FIDE predestination of the elect.

And test all three. We would have the aid of the Holy Spirit to perform the test and to

KNOW the test results. – 1 John 2:26-27.

But let’s not harry with the test, first get down to the nitty-gritty.

We know God has given authority to Satan to test Job. – And Job was tested by Satan

with the authority of God.

Without God’s authority Satan could never test Job.

Nothing happen in the world without God’s authorization.

If we read Matt.13:24-30, 36-43; Matt.24:4, 11, 24; 2 Cor.11:13-15; 2 Pet.2:1-3; etc.

We KNOW Satan has infiltrated the Church with his “undercover agents in sheep’s

clothing” (authorized by God) from the very beginning.

From Matt.13:30, we know Satan’s “undercover agents in sheep’s clothing” will be our

uninvited guests until Christ’s second coming.

Trough out in the Scriptures we have repeated warnings that we must take heed that no

one deceives us. – Christ’s repeated warnings: “Many false prophets will arise, if possible

even to deceive the elect.”

My question from you Fhansen:

What is God’s reason (we can be sure some greater good** will come out from it) that He

has authorized Satan to infiltrate the Church?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

God bless

LatinRight

LatinRight, once you come to truly know the Church, you’ll realize that you’re the one trying to do the infiltrating. . Right now you have zeal without full understanding. Bur as you come to understand and embrace the wisdom in the Church’s teachings, you can then truly do some good, within her auspices rather than from the perspective of your own modified view of Christianity.

The message of the RCC is spot-on beautiful-sound and balanced, but we can always get better at proclaiming it. But you take isolated Roman Catholic teachings along with isolated Scripture passages and try to build the case for your particular positions, thinking you’re enlightening the wayward fold. You’re not.Catholics need to be challenged and better instructed in the faith. But in the RC faith. It already possesses all the surest means for man’s salvation.