Canada Legalizes Gay Marriage

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Karin:
Can someone please help me here…I understand the stance on abortion, gay marriage etc. If Catholics as a large majority are against these things why dont they combine their efforts and make sure these things do not become law or acceptable norms? Are there just not enough Catholics to make a difference…or is it that not enough Catholics want to take a stance?
They ARE “taking a stance” in a multitude of ways, all over the country. But we can’t do much about what the Supreme Court decides ultimately. I can see a state-ban law making its way up there and–God help us–all bets are off!

Edit: Oops! Wrong country…whatever. Can’t help but think the US is next. But it wouldn’t happen in the state legislatures. Only the courts can pull this off.
 
If Canada had to pass such a law, why couldn’t they have done it the week of Nov 2, 2004?

🙂
 
Aureole:

I am not giving up on Canada but I will fly the flag upside down on Canada Day, July first.( a cardboard cut out in my front window) to show that this is a black day for Canada.

I am ashamed of some native Canadians who ought to know better, our well educated, privileged family back-ground Prime Minister - is one of them.

Karin - I wish the Pope would excommunicate our Prime Minister Martin. You see Archbishop Marcel Gervais of Ottawa describes the PM as “a faithful member of my Cathedral parish” to whom he will not deny Holy Communion. Another Bishop, Fred Henry of Calgary has said that he cannot in good conscience give Communion to Paul Martin and politicians like him.
 
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Karin:
Ok then why dont the parishoners do something (I see writing to the Bishops has no effect) and get the Vatican involved a bit more? I would think that the Pope would have something to say about this and he has the power to do something…so why isnt something done???
A loaded question. Much has to be done. By parishoners, the priests, the bishops, and the Pope. Every Christian needs to stand for Christ. Problem is, most do not and would rather be comfortable.
 
Ani Ibi:
Yes, it does. From the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion; b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and d) freedom of association.
OK, I revise and extend my remarks. They have freedom of religion in their Charter, but it’s been interpreted so as to be worthless.

If they had freedom of religion and thought, Canada couldn’t put people in jail for reading some passages from the Bible aloud that condemn immorality. And that’s precisely what they can do now.

The same for rights here in the United States. “Respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” now is interpreted to mean that all public expressions of religious thought are banned.

The fifth amendment discusses taking private property for public use but the Supreme Court just ruled that private property can be seized and given to private entities who pay more taxes. Corporations don’t need to negotiate when they can take what they want.

In short, we in the United States will have no rights at all if we allow courts to reinterpret the constitution as if we had none. Congress can and should exercise its authority over the courts.
 
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Pondero:
Aureole:

Karin - I wish the Pope would excommunicate our Prime Minister Martin. You see Archbishop Marcel Gervais of Ottawa describes the PM as “a faithful member of my Cathedral parish” to whom he will not deny Holy Communion. Another Bishop, Fred Henry of Calgary has said that he cannot in good conscience give Communion to Paul Martin and politicians like him.
You’re right! Here are his comments: lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05032407.html
 
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Karin:
Thank you Richardols for the info. But here is another question…if the past Pope and the current Pope dont do anything are they condoning the behaviour, teaching or lack of from the North American churches?
The Church is BIG. Way bigger than Canada and the U.S. Pope John Paul II, while not a big disciplinarian, did start promoting good Bishops. The change will be slow but it is happening. And there is amazing growth of orthodox Catholics in Asia and Africa.

The Bishops really have the responsibility. It is too much of a burden to ask the Vatican to intervene every time a priest dissents (which is about every 5 minutes). The Bishop is accountable to the Pope and to God. The best course of action for lay Catholics is to withold money, write letters, and protest when the Bishop allows dissent to go on.
 
Karin said:
Yes the churches focus should be on everyone,everywhere! I guess the Vatican has too many churches and not enough people to make sure that church doctirine (sp?) is being taught correctly or upheld to the standard it needs to be!

Actually what we have is one Church (which is great news! one Magisterium, one Scripture, and one Tradition - we always have these 3 wellsprings of truth as our benchmark) with a bunch of dissenting priests and a lesser number of dissenting Bishops. It’s not that we do not have enough priests. It is that we have priests that oppose those 3 wellsprings I mentioned. The faithful can no longer tolerate this.
 
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Richardols:
Even a “flaming queer” or a “butch dike” can love their country.
A true patriot puts country before self, not self before country.
 
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Brad:
A true patriot puts country before self, not self before country.
And you can bet that homosexual as well as heterosexual men have done so in battle. Patriotism is no group’s private domain.
 
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Pondero:
Aureole:

I am not giving up on Canada but I will fly the flag upside down on Canada Day, July first.( a cardboard cut out in my front window) to show that this is a black day for Canada.

I am ashamed of some native Canadians who ought to know better, our well educated, privileged family back-ground Prime Minister - is one of them.

Karin - I wish the Pope would excommunicate our Prime Minister Martin. You see Archbishop Marcel Gervais of Ottawa describes the PM as “a faithful member of my Cathedral parish” to whom he will not deny Holy Communion. Another Bishop, Fred Henry of Calgary has said that he cannot in good conscience give Communion to Paul Martin and politicians like him.
How about flying upside-down flags until this sinful, unjust war against Iraq is over with? I mean, there are actual LIVES involved… life & death, you know?
 
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Brad:
The Bishops really have the responsibility. It is too much of a burden to ask the Vatican to intervene every time a priest dissents (which is about every 5 minutes). The Bishop is accountable to the Pope and to God. The best course of action for lay Catholics is to withold money, write letters, and protest when the Bishop allows dissent to go on.
Yes! We are obliged to tythe. But tything is to those from whom we take spiritual nourishment. Let us send our tythes to Bishop Henry and let us with hold our tythes from Bishop Grecco and from Bishop Fabbro, to begin with. Archbishop Gervais sounds like a good candidate to follow in terms of negative tything. Anybody have any other names to go on the negative tything list?
 
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Pondero:
Aureole:

I am not giving up on Canada but I will fly the flag upside down on Canada Day, July first.( a cardboard cut out in my front window) to show that this is a black day for Canada.

I am ashamed of some native Canadians who ought to know better, our well educated, privileged family back-ground Prime Minister - is one of them.
I’m not sure how effective turning the flag upsidedown will be, but it could send the wrong message. You might want to rethink this.
Ani Ibi:
The fight has only just begun. How clear is that for you?
Thank you. This put a large smile on my face!
 
I have to choke on idea of homosexual marriages. If our clergy get fined for speaking out against it in the U.S. then we are in deep trouble.
 
Ani Ibi:
Yes! We are obliged to tythe. But tything is to those from whom we take spiritual nourishment. Let us send our tythes to Bishop Henry and let us with hold our tythes from Bishop Grecco and from Bishop Fabbro, to begin with. Archbishop Gervais sounds like a good candidate to follow in terms of negative tything. Anybody have any other names to go on the negative tything list?
Code:
Bishop Grecco??? choke I know him…he is from our diocese and so is his brother. His brother is liberal and is in our city…

Bishop Grecco??? :crying:
 
I can’t help thinking that if God spares all the countries that allow this, He will owe an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
an article from zenit…

Canada a Step Closer to Same-Sex Marriage

Archbishop Sounds Warning in Wake of Commons Vote


OTTAWA, JUNE 29, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The House of Commons’ vote to approve same-sex marriages portends a “dangerous deterioration” of Canadians’ “communal values,” says a bishop.

The 158-133 vote on Tuesday night capped a two-year Commons battle. All that remains for the same-sex bill to become law is debate in the Senate, where Liberals outnumber the opposition Conservatives and are expected to pass the bill early in July, the Globe and Mail newspaper reported.

Approval would make Canada the third nation to legalize homosexual marriages, after Belgium and the Netherlands.

In a statement, Archbishop Brendan O’Brien, president of the Catholic bishops’ conference, said: “With the House of Commons having passed Bill C-38 on 28 June 2005, Canadians take another unfortunate step toward eliminating civil and social recognition and appreciation for the unique importance of the committed relationship of a man and a woman in marriage.”

He continued: "The issues at stake are not only the basis and the definition of marriage as established and celebrated since time immemorial by all religions and cultures, and as inscribed in nature.

“What is also at risk is the future of marriage as a fundamental social institution, together with the importance that society accords the irreplaceable role of a husband and wife in conceiving and raising children. Their partnership assures a stable context for family life, continuity with past and future generations, and gender models involving both mother and father.”

Deep divide

“The passage of Bill C-38 by the House of Commons, like the difficulties in health care, are indications that Canadians are witnessing a dangerous deterioration of their communal values,” Archbishop O’Brien said.

“This worrisome decline in shared concern and care for the common good is also evident in the continuing high rates of marriage breakdown, the annual number of abortions, and the declining number of births,” the episcopal conference president said.

“Given the political maneuvering on Bill C-38, it is particularly troubling to note the continued refusal by certain political parties and their leaders to recognize and respect freedom of conscience and religion,” the prelate added. "Members of Parliament were forced to follow a political deadline and to vote along party lines on an issue which deeply divides and troubles Canadians.

"This is an ominous sign of what can be expected in future debates on the application of Bill C-38 in the provinces and territories with regard to human rights legislation and the solemnization of marriage, as well as regarding school policies on moral and social questions.

"The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops calls on the Senate to exercise in full its role of assuring a ‘second and sober’ look at the proposed legislation, in order to give prudent consideration to all the various social, religious, legal and civil consequences of Bill C-38.
 
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Shoshana:
Bishop Grecco??? choke I know him…he is from our diocese and so is his brother. His brother is liberal and is in our city…

Bishop Grecco??? :crying:

Pondero claims that Bishop Grecco (of Toronto but formerly of London) has said that clergy should be reticent to speak out against Bill C-38 because, if they do, then churches could lose their tax-free status. There is another thread on the pro-life forum. On that thread there are some email addresses and also an article by Fr Valk, the editor of Catholic Insight magazine. Read what he says about the Canadian bishops:

http://catholicinsight.com/online/editorials/julyedit.shtml

Grim.
 
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