CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

[ZMystiCat]

What a twist. I thought you were a female feline this whole time!

I guess I need post more macho cat pictures:

 

[ZMystiCat]

It’s weird how often cat-loving guys get mistaken for females.

I remember when a lot of metal musicians posed with their cats. A lot of people on my Facebook were freaking out. In the meantime, I was geeking out, since I like metal and cats. Granted, my tastes in metal tend to be towards power metal, which I’ve heard some describe as “girly metal”.

 

[graciew]

They say all of Southern California is now run by violent Mexican gangs ( drugs / etc )
Jesus said turn the other cheek - but not a blind eye.

But the thing is drugs are a business and there is demand. It is all money.
Many countries are having big problems with this, if it isn t for consuming that much,it is for being a corridor to narcotrafficking.
And behind narcotrafdicking ,there is money laundering for terrorism as well. Now Hezbolah has reappeared around.
It really is a mess and a danger for all of us.
We should stick together more,at some point we are kind of pawns for a much bigger and much dangerous game. Yes,it is no game at all.

 

[Isidore]

Immigrants have become political fodder for Democrats. They can present any action to defend the border as being racist and mean-spirited. This action/position has been supported by the Church. To an extent, I understand the position of the Church; however, I have yet to see/read about the Church criticizing Democrats for making political fodder out of people. When these immigrants are allowed to vote, they will vote roughly 80% Democrat. Democrat leadership would most likely be against liberal immigration if they would be vote 80% Republican. Again, the Church needs to criticize the Democrats manipulation, dehumanization, and blatant abuse of the people for political gain.

 

[pnewton]

Perhaps Church leaders should, as a matter of priorities, first clearly spell out what the Catholic response ought to be to the abuse crisis in the Church,

That topic has nothing to do with this topic. It is also a classic example of a false dichotomy .

And they have, by the way.

 

[1cthlctrth]

Bingo! Democrats are looking to change the electorate so that they get more votes and win more elections.
With the help of the Leftist media, Democrats have been able to brainwash a large percentage of minorities into thinking, “You’re not a real (fill-in-the-blank here with any class of minorities) if you’re not Democrat” or “You’re a trader to your race if you’re a Republican.”
And the Leftist media spends no time on the great news that 2018 unemployment is the lowest in American history for African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans (per the Dept. of Labor Statistics website) because it’s Republican policies that help minorities most.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Perhaps Church leaders should, as a matter of priorities, first clearly spell out what the Catholic response ought to be to the abuse crisis in the Church,

That topic has nothing to do with this topic. It is also a classic example of a false dichotomy .

And they have, by the way.

That is correct. It is a false dichotomy, which was my point.

There is a false dichotomy being created by advocating for the rights of foreigners as against the rights of a country’s citizens, as if the rights of citizens can be automatically nullified as soon as hordes of migrants arrive at one’s doorstep.

No one would claim that when a beggar or stranger arrives at the door of your house that they are automatically owed a priority equal to the rights of your own family, as if they, by merely showing up at your doorstep, have an assumed equal right to your family’s goods and services as do the members of your family. The Church has never taught that.

Likewise, Church teaching has never been that immigrants or refugees have equal and competing rights to the goods and services of a nation as do the citizens of that nation.

Thus, it isn’t, an either / or situation where both the either and the or can be treated as morally equivalent, which is what @blackforest seems to be implying by her “all she wrote” conclusion.

That is simply not true. Nations, like families, have the moral autonomy and responsibility to determine for themselves how “aliens” will be helped. Yes, there are moral guidelines, but those guidelines do not imply that aliens must be treated as de facto equals to family members or citizens. There is no sense that the either is morally equivalent to the or, as far as responses is concerned. In that sense the dichotomy is a false one.

 

[Rob2]

Does anyone know the truth about this issue ?

 

[Augustinian]

Does anyone know the truth about this issue ?

I’m sure that someone does know the truth. But they really haven’t come forward.

Vice President Pence was talking in an authoritative manner about this Caravan last night, about some left wing group in Honduras, financed by the Venezuela government?

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Great! Now remember that advice next time I cite Breitbart, Zero Hedge, LifeSite, Gateway Pundit, or a host of other media.

Breitbart. LOL! Media Bias Ratings | AllSides

Here is YOUR problem. And it requires evidence, facts and solid reasoning to overcome YOUR problem.

Allsides does rate Breitbart as reporting from the right side of the spectrum. That isn’t a problem, necessarily.

It could only be a problem if you assume, as you appear to – driven by your own bias – that taking a position on the right makes Breitbart wrong on all issues it reports on. That, in itself, assumes that either a left or centrist perspective are necessarily correct, a priori.

Facts, evidence and solid reasoning would be required to make the case that the truth concerning political issues is always to be found in the centre or on the left. You certainly haven’t made that case.

And the fact that you lolled Breitbart being categorized as “on the right” by Allsides, implies that you have a bias of your own to overcome.

Whatever happened to your “guiding principle,” here?

Sometimes media are right and sometimes they’re wrong. Sometimes both. Try refuting their claims with actual facts and evidence. It takes a little (OK, a lot), more intellectual legwork than a blanket dismissal, but it makes discussion a lot more respectful and productive.

Actually, my preference is for independent and thoughtful commentators like Mr. Christensen, who actually do provide facts, evidence and solid reasoning.

Now you might want to listen and learn from him how to engage in argumentation and not assume that a strategic lol here or there is sufficient to make your case.

It isn’t.

 

[AlNg]

It doesn’t matter. They’re doing it ILLEGALLY.

Was the overthrow of the democratically elected president Manuel Zelaya in 2009 legal ? Why did Clinton reject calls to condemn the coup? Was it legal to gun down Berta Caceres in 2016? She is just one of thousands of indigenous activists, peasant leaders, trade unionists, journalists, environmentalists, judges, opposition political candidates, human rights activists, and others murdered since the military coup in 2009. Were these murders legal? The leader of the coup, Honduran General Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, was a graduate of a U.S. Army training program, the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation or the School of the Americas. The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation is a United States Department of Defense Institute located at Fort Benning near Columbus, Georgia, created in the 2001 National Defense Authorization Act under 10 USC Sec 2166.

 

[AlNg]

They say all of Southern California is now run by violent Mexican gangs

Who said so? There are gangs in some parts of Southern California. But I doubt that all of Southern California is run by these gangs.

 

[Seagull]

This guy says so. I believe him.

 

[AlNg]

This guy says so. I believe him.

Your credibility with me has taken a hit if you believe that Mexican gangs run all of southern California.
I doubt that the University of California Irvine or the California Institute of Technology Pasadena are run by Mexican gangs.

 

[Augustinian]

Was the overthrow of the democratically elected president Manuel Zelaya in 2009 legal ? Why did Clinton reject calls to condemn the coup?

That was a matter of dispute by different parts of the Honduran political and judicial classes. Many high ranking Hondurans thought Mr. Zelaya’s removal 9 years ago was perfectly legit as per Honduran law.

Of course, others had different opinions on it.

Its smart for American officials to allow other countries work out their own legal disputes, no? What would make Mrs. Clinton an expert in such a matter?

 

[amt1985]

How is this even a question on a Catholic forum? Has no one here read Matthew 25?

 

[AlNg]

How is this even a question on a Catholic forum? Has no one here read Matthew 25?

Yes. And the Catholic Church teaches the corporal works of mercy which includes precepts such as
Feed the hungry
Give drink to the thirsty.
These people are in a desperate situation and need help.Trump says he will send the military to the border. This will not help the people there and could very well turn out to be ugly if the Americans use their weapons against these needy families and their helpless children.

 

[bradleesargent]

I think Catholics should do something, not the government. The church should reach out to these poor souls and provide all kinds of support for them and they should try to get to the bottom of what’s happening.

 

[blackforest]

Oh, believe me, I do exercise a great deal of skepticism towards my own governments – both the provincial and the federal.

Provincial? Are you Canadian? Foreign nationals lecturing the U.S. about domestic policy remind me of random strangers telling me how to raise my children.

You aren’t claiming that Catholic leaders now have the political authority to determine public policy in the US, are you?

Where on earth did that come from??

Catholic leaders tell us how we are to respond as followers of Christ.

That said, I am reasonably well acquainted with the Church’s stance on the issue, and the fact that the “Catholic response” you cited was from 2011, means that it only has an interpretive bearing on the issue of the caravan.

Did the USCCB stance on migrants and asylees change since 2011? If so, please forward me the link. If not, it’s still very much relevant and applicable.

The electorate just doesn’t believe in weird coincidences.any more.

Believe what you will. I’m more of facts-and-evidence kind of gal.

Again, if there HAD been a conspiracy, so what? How would seeing Trump react to migrants somehow nefariously “throw” an election?

And the fact that you lolled Breitbart being categorized as “on the right” by Allsides, implies that you have a bias of your own to overcome.

I do have a strong bias for news sources that are as centrist and objective as possible. You caught me.

I just thought it was interesting that you pounced on a mildly Left source while promoting a Far Right one.

 

[HarryStotle]

I do have a strong bias for news sources that are as centrist and objective as possible. You caught me.

Again, you missed the point.

Centrist does not equal objective, it merely equates to a third perspective somewhat different from or a compromise between the other two.

Why would that necessarily be the objectively best solution unless you are predisposed to a left - centrist - right paradigm?

Objective would mean from outside any preconception, including a centrist preconception.

It could very well be that the objectively true solution might be to the left on some aspect, to the right on some other and centrist on some other. You can’t just assume a centrist position is the correct one unless you are merely committed to a compromise between the left and right.

In fact, there could be a better solution which is neither left, right, nor centrist.