Cardinal Dolan - Explaining My Decision to Serve as Grand Marshal

[gam197]

I have to admit that I’m not in lock step with Cardinals decision to be Gm of this Catholic Saints parade when a sinful lifestyle is endorsed. My reason are many but I won’t go into them in this post.

As a practicing Catholic who follows the teachings of the Church I will take the instructions of our Bishops to heart. I would like to add that I believe, with past history as a guide, that the Church will be forced to withdraw it’s support of the parade in a very short time. One simple sign will lead to more provocative signs.

One final comment, I have gay relatives in my family and Love them very much, but I pray for their Souls. We have only one God to worship, and it isn’t our sexuality. I’ll leave salvation to Jesus’s Will, not mine.

In years to come, maybe.

I don’t want to post too many pictures. In one picture, they support GLSEN which is the group that has a “Day of Silence” in our schools and colleges each year. They run the gay/straight alliance clubs in high schools.

glsen.org

This is their twitter site

twitter.com/hashtag/prideNBCU?src=ha

 

[gam197]

originally posted by DaddyGirl
The Gay Lobbyist group you describe here is not the group marching in the parade, as I think you know.
Of course those other groups should march.

The pictures I have posted and the twitter account is Out/NBC. This is the group that WILL be marching in the 2015 parade.

I only mentioned the Human Right Campaign and their blog because with 1.5 million members, it is important how they see things. They will NOT be marching in this year’s parade.

Hope that clarifies it.

 

[Path_Finder]

We will have to see how all of this comes off, I thought I heard that one group, possibly HRC would still be active at the parade if not marching in the parade itself. If I’m not repeating what was already said, HRC additionally on 9/15/14 applied to march in the parade.

I can see how possibly unexpected things could happen at the parade and it could then become the Church’s stance “never again”.

 

[abucs]

I’m not homosexual, so I cannot presume to speak for them, but if I were a member of a group whose members had been hated, vilified, persecuted and even killed (please note that I am not saying that this has been sanctioned by the Church), I might want to celebrate the fact that society no longer deems me a pariah.

Considering that most people of the past (having larger and closer extended families) would have had much more intimate dealings and relationships with people who were homosexual than now, do you really think that it is a fair and balanced description?

When I look to the past I don’t see such persecution, vilification and killing of homosexuals on a scale to warrant such a broad description.

I am living this year in very traditional Catholic Philippines and I don’t see anything like that. I had dinner last night with two lesbian friends and one of the mother’s. I see very femininely dressed and behaving gay Philippino men who just live their lives. The families may not prefer it and acknowledge something has gone wrong in formation, but they are loved none the less.

Isn’t this a more accurate description of historical treatment?

 

[SquallLeonheart]

Considering that most people of the past (having larger and closer extended families) would have had much more intimate dealings and relationships with people who were homosexual than now, do you really think that it is a fair and balanced description?

When I look to the past I don’t see such persecution, vilification and killing of homosexuals on a scale to warrant such a broad description.

I am living this year in very traditional Catholic Philippines and I don’t see anything like that. I had dinner last night with two lesbian friends and one of the mother’s. I see very femininely dressed and behaving gay Philippino men who just live their lives. The families may not prefer it and acknowledge something has gone wrong in formation, but they are loved none the less.

Isn’t this a more accurate description of historical treatment?

To be blunt, NO. Bookworm is correct. And you don’t have to look just to the past to see the persecution, but look to the Present. In Uganda and Russia just to mention a couple countries who want to criminalize homosexuality all together. In fact Uganda had even put the death penalty on the table for being homosexual!

 

[Joe_5859]

I like that Cardinal Dolan took the quote from Cardinal O’Connor that many were using against him, agreed with it, and then took it even further.

 

[abucs]

To be blunt, NO. Bookworm is correct. And you don’t have to look just to the past to see the persecution, but look to the Present. In Uganda and Russia just to mention a couple countries who want to criminalize homosexuality all together. In fact Uganda had even put the death penalty on the table for being homosexual!

Could you please outline the history of the number of people convicted and sent to jail for homosexual acts by governments in the Western world?

Could you please outline the history of the number of people executed for homosexual acts by governments of the western world?

Could you please link any information provided to explicit Catholic support, if it exists.

Thank you.

 

[gocatholic]

I cannot begin to express how painful it is for me to see Cardinal Dolan contradict CCC 2333. It further pains me that this is characterized as charity. We do not blow our brains out for charity because that would be the opposite of charity. God has rights. I’ve tweeted my comments to Cardinal Dolan and will post them below. I don’t expect anyone here to care, but it’s important to me in my spiritual life and is consistent with what the Church teaches. For me, it is life or death…physically speaking.

I said to Cardinal Dolan:

I have bipolar disorder. If people like me in spiritual direction are allowed to find ID in disorder, they’ll commit suicide.
I don’t criticize for jollies. I criticize because people will commit suicide if they find their identity in disorder.
And because objective disorder is different from medical disorder, it is spiritual suicide to ID in it.
The papal theologian has said that once you ID in it, it is less likely that you can come to understand the truth. I agree.
I will continue to defend CCC 2333 because lives are at stake, both physically and spiritually.
And every time you deny CCC 2333, you are essentially saying that my specific cross in life is futile and a lie.
If I were to ever believe you my life would be in danger. Thats why I cling to root basis of CCC 2333. Objective identity.
My identity isn’t whatever I come up with in my head. My identity is what God says I am. Therefore, I do not take my life.

 

[pnewton]

• never to be treated with discrimination or injustice.*

Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.

“discrimination or injustice” “unjust discrimination”. Are you seriously saying that these are different enough for some point?

Bottom line: the most charitable interpretation is that somebody has horrendously misinformed His Eminence.

The most charitable interpretation is that he made a sound decision. After all, our opinions are just our opinions.

 

[sainthumbert]

I thought it was bad when Cardinal Dolan said it was “wise” decision.

Now he adds “I have been assured that the new group marching is not promoting an agenda contrary to Church teaching, but simply identifying themselves as Gay people of Irish ancestry. If the Parade Committee allowed a group to publicize its advocacy of any actions contrary to Church teaching, I’d object.”

Oh, so we can assume their banners mean that they are Irish homosexuals who are trying to live chastely? That is ridiculous. We all know what they are marching for and it is not in support of those trying to live chastely despite homosexual attractions.

Dolan, Tobin, Kasper - we need real men in your positions.

 

[gam197]

Facebook Page

This the facebook page of NBC Out. Will post a few of the many, many pictures on it. Hope this does not shut this thread down and they will leave the pictures for this discussion.They have picture in the Chicago Pride Parade, LA Pride Parade and some trangender pictures.

facebook.com/OUTNBCUniversal
**
Again these are their pictures posted on their site.** The first is a celebration of “gay marriage” Michigan. The second is a pair of dads with their son.

 

[WilT]

Easy does it…don’t want to get banned…but…my question…and it’s not so much about his Eminence’s explanation…it’s more to do with the GLBT crowd or , whatever the letters are…not sure I know how to frame my question…why wave a flag…I digress…once again…the re-dedication of St.Fancis Church in Manhattan…the rainbow banners…the people stepping up to the lecturn touting the fact that they were accepted there…that they could receive the sacraments…and so on and so on…and one of the clergy, it looked like in the Sacristy stating how great it was to have everyone included…get this…I am all about it…I am in total agreement.,just like the parade…it’s good…no doubt…but…why wave a flag…it these individuals have same sex attraction , o.k…but I can’t help but think that they have an agenda…if there was no agenda…and these individuals were living celebant lives and not acting out…why the need to wave a banner…I have friends who have same sex attraction that I love dearly and they don’t feel the need to advertise their preference for gender…are we not in some way passively, or at least presenting ourselves passively as accepting the behavior…at least I think it’s safe t say that the majority of the general population views it that way…and can we as the Church…be a party to it…

 

[WilT]

I politely and charitably disagree with Cardinal Dolans decision on serving as a Grand Marshall of ceremonies during St. Patrick’s Day Parade in New York.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Please stop posting pictures

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not homosexual, so I cannot presume to speak for them, but if I were a member of a group whose members had been hated, vilified, persecuted and even killed (please note that I am not saying that this has been sanctioned by the Church), I might want to celebrate the fact that society no longer deems me a pariah.

As your post shows, this group is about having a positive work environment.
That is a good thing. And if a group participates in a “pride” event, what is wrong with that? Having pride within oneself is emotionally and mentally healthy.
Dolan sees that. He is wise in his actions, and his words that Robert Bay posted.

Don’t worry, no one in the media will “thank” or “blame” Cardinal Dolan for the parade being inclusive of people.
It is the people of NYC who encourage this and push for it, and rightly so.

Bookworm, above, is not “blaming Catholics for all evils”. I can’t see how you are getting that from her post at all.

If you are to love the sinner, as you point out, then a great way of showing that love is to applaud their marching in the parade.

.

This is what I don’t understand: If I had a weakness which allowed me to be easily tempted to, say, adultery, then if I wanted to remain faithful to my spouse or to my single state in life, then I would not “celebrate” it. Even tho now fornicators and adulterers are not stones to death, beaten, or put in jail as they once were, I still don’t feel like going out and “celebrating” that either.

In fact, I would pribably do the opposite of what these groups are doing. I would avoid temptations. I would avoid acting remotely, like by flirting. Etc. I would certainly not join in with others in “advertizing” myself as a person interested in this type of sin.

I think there is a certain amount if eithe heavy naivete or disingenuity going on.

 

[St_Francis]

“discrimination or injustice” “unjust discrimination”. Are you seriously saying that these are different enough for some point?..
​

Discrimination is not inherently unjust. Some discrimination is unjust, but not all.​

 

[Tomdstone]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

1. “Sexual orientation” does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. Letter, no. 3) and evokes moral concern…

Is this the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, that homosexual orientation is an objective disorder ?

 

[pnewton]

Discrimination is not inherently unjust. Some discrimination is unjust, but not all.

I understand that, as does the Cardinal. Hence the word “injustice”.

 

[St_Francis]

I understand that, as does the Cardinal. Hence the word “injustice”.

I gathered from your question that you did not understand that.

 

[nagyszakall]

The way I see it, the problem is a mistake in anthropology on the part of Cardinal Dolan. Using the word “gay” without defining it, moreover, calling it an “identity” is where I think he is very much mistaken.