Catholic Belief Regarding the Judgement of a Jew

[Keith_W_OR_USA]

What does the Catholic Church believe about the Judgement of an observant Jew? Does a Jew have to believe that Jesus was the Messiah to enter heaven?

 

[Insight]

What does the Catholic Church believe about the Judgement of an observant Jew? Does a Jew have to believe that Jesus was the Messiah to enter heaven?

During the transfiguration Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah who appeared in glorified form. So we have Biblical proof that Moses and Elijah were in Heaven before Jesus was crucified. They were Jewish and they got to Heaven somehow.

God Bless

 

[meltzerboy]

During the transfiguration Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah who appeared in glorified form. So we have Biblical proof that Moses and Elijah were in Heaven before Jesus was crucified. They were Jewish and they got to Heaven somehow.

God Bless

Thanks for helping, but I think the OP is referring to observant Jews who lived AFTER Jesus rather than Prophets who lived prior.

 

[meltzerboy]

What does the Catholic Church believe about the Judgement of an observant Jew? Does a Jew have to believe that Jesus was the Messiah to enter heaven?

Based on what I know about Catholicism, I think the doctrine of “invincible ignorance” might apply here. That is, for Jews (observant or otherwise) who, through no fault of their own, are unable to “see the light” regarding Jesus, there is the POSSIBILITY of salvation, but only through the divine grace and mystery of G-d. The mercy of G-d, acting through the universality of the Church, may lead to the salvation of those who are unofficially part of the Church. In other words, there is thought to be no salvation outside of the Church, but the salvation can occur by means of this universality and G-d’s grace. Perhaps an informed Catholic can explain this better.

 

[Kaninchen]

As I’ve said a number of times here, the genius of Christianity was to invent an illness (“You’re All Doomed!”) and announce itself as the only cure.

 

[SummitJim]

I think Meltzerboy pretty much nailed it.

 

[Insight]

As I’ve said a number of times here, the genius of Christianity was to invent an illness (“You’re All Doomed!”) and announce itself as the only cure.

I don’t think that is really Biblical though. When the rich man asked Jesus what he needed to do to be saved, Jesus told him to obey the Commandments. It was only when the rich man asked what more can he do that Jesus told him to sell everything, give it to the poor and follow Him. That represented the above and beyond. Therefore, a good righteous Jew who obeys the Commandments should be saved.

God Bless

 

[Kaninchen]

I don’t think that is really Biblical though. When the rich man asked Jesus what he needed to do to be saved, Jesus told him to obey the Commandments. It was only when the rich man asked what more can he do that Jesus told him to sell everything, give it to the poor and follow Him. That represented the above and beyond. Therefore, a good righteous Jew who obeys the Commandments should be saved.

God Bless

I expect it rather depends on what the follow him meant.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

In order to be saved, a person must both explicitly believe in the Trinity (Summa, II-II, Q.2, A.8) and in Christ (Summa, II-II, Q.2, A.7).

A non-Christian cannot be saved as a non-Christian, remember the words of Christ:

He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

Jn 14:6:

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:8-12:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said to them: Ye princes of the people, and ancients, hear: if we this day are examined concerning the good deed done to the infirm man, by what means he hath been made whole: be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole.

This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

Now, it is possible for a person to live their whole life as a Jew or even an atheist and then, by a miracle of God, call out for a priest to come and baptize them on their deathbed. Here is a sermon on the story of the deathbed conversion of the Jewish gangster Dutch Schultz who inexplicably called for a Catholic priest on his deathbed and was baptized. God works miracles of grace. Sometimes even when there is no priest available or even a layman to baptize them, God can give a person sufficient grace to be able to make an act of perfect contrition and receive Baptism of Desire.

A similar situation happens with non-Catholic Christians. If they are given graces at their deathbed, they may ask for a Catholic priest to come and hear their confession and convert. But even if there is no priest available, they may be given the grace necessary to have perfect contrition for their sins, which would include both their immoral acts (those actions and omissions that we all have) and theological errors (sins against the faith). Even if they lived their entire life as a Forty-Gallon Baptist, or a Seventh Day Adventist, with a vicious hatred for the Catholic Faith, God may still give them the necessary graces either later in life or on their deathbed, to come to the Catholic Faith.

But in any case, there is no back door to Heaven – Christ is the only Way. These deathbed graces come to people because we pray to them, remember:

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

Through Mary’s intercession for us, God grants us and others the necessary graces to die a happy death. Prayers to St. Joseph are also helpful in this regard, since he died a happy death in the loving arms of Our Lord and Our Lady, as we also hope to die. So pray for people, that God will be merciful and bring them into the Catholic Church before they die and that they may have perfect contrition for their sins at the moment of death or at least imperfect contrition and a priest (sadly, there are people who would rather die a lost soul than make a confession, even when there’s a priest standing right there, trying to help them).

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

During the transfiguration Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah who appeared in glorified form. So we have Biblical proof that Moses and Elijah were in Heaven before Jesus was crucified. They were Jewish and they got to Heaven somehow.

God Bless

Correction, they weren’t in Heaven yet, they were in Limbo with all the other righteous people from the Old Testament times (both Jews and Gentiles). When Christ died, He descended into Limbo and raised up these people:
Mt 27:50-54:

And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top even to the bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were rent. And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city, and appeared to many. Now the centurion and they that were with him watching Jesus, having seen the earthquake, and the things that were done, were sore afraid, saying: Indeed this was the Son of God.

Then when Christ ascended into Heaven, He opened the gate for us and those people were taken into Heaven as well.

But also remember that the OT patriarchs and prophets did believe in Jesus. They believed that a Messiah would come and rescue them. They didn’t know the details because God hadn’t revealed them and it hadn’t happened yet. But trusting in everything God was doing, including the coming Messiah, was sufficient to unite them to Christ.

Summa:

Now the mystery of Christ’s Incarnation and Passion is the way by which men obtain beatitude; for it is written (Acts 4:12): “There is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.” Therefore belief of some kind in the mystery of Christ’s Incarnation was necessary at all times and for all persons, but this belief differed according to differences of times and persons.

 

[Insight]

I expect it rather depends on what the follow him meant.

I think Jesus was asking him to become one of His Disciples, but the rich man declined

In order to be saved, a person must both explicitly believe in the Trinity and in Christ.

When Moses and Elijah died they knew only what the Torah stated regarding the Messiah, yet they were in Heaven before Jesus died. The Bible says they were in glorified form. Where does it say anything in the Bible about Limbo?

Prayers to St. Joseph are also helpful in this regard, since he died a happy death in the loving arms of Our Lord and Our Lady, as we also hope to die

How did you know that Joseph died in Jesus’ arms?

God Bless

 

[Kaninchen]

How did you know that Joseph died in Jesus’ arms?

God Bless

I’m still giggling at what I’m supposed to have written about prayers to St Joseph!

[Hey, we all mistakes but that was very funny]

 

[Insight]

I’m still giggling at what I’m supposed to have written about prayers to St Joseph!

[Hey, we all mistakes but that was very funny]

I guess I messed that quote up pretty good, it should have been VivaCristoRey27. At least someone got a chuckle out of it.

God Bless

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

When Moses and Elijah died they knew only what the Torah stated regarding the Messiah, yet they were in Heaven before Jesus died. The Bible says they were in glorified form. Where does it say anything in the Bible about Limbo?

Are you Catholic? Your religion states “Catholic”, you should note that Limbo of the Patriarchs is Catholic dogma.
Apostles Creed:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.

If you want to know the Biblical basis:
1Pe 3:18-20:

Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, in which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

Lk 16:19-22:

There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom.

Christ did not open Heaven until He ascended:
Jn 14:2-6:

In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be. And whither I go you know, and the way you know. Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

The reprobate that died before Christ went to the hell of the damned, the same as now. The elect that died before Christ went to the limbo of the fathers, to await the coming of Christ.

Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the matter: CCC 632ff

The Roman Catechism states:
Roman Catechism:

Lastly, the third kind of abode [called “hell”] is that into which the souls of the just before the coming of Christ the Lord, were received, and where, without experiencing any sort of pain, but supported by the blessed hope of redemption, they enjoyed peaceful repose. To liberate these holy souls, who, in the bosom of Abraham were expecting the Saviour, Christ the Lord descended into hell.

The Limbo of the Fathers is Catholic dogma and it is consistent with the teachings of Sacred Scripture.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

Additionally, Elijah is still not in Heaven. He is, along with Enoch, waiting for the end of the world somewhere.

Summa:

Elias was taken up into the atmospheric heaven, but not in to the empyrean heaven, which is the abode of the saints: and likewise Enoch was translated into the earthly paradise, where he is believed to live with Elias until the coming of Antichrist.

Apoc 11:3-12:

And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks, that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire shall come out of their mouths, and shall devour their enemies. And if any man will hurt them, in this manner must he be slain.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and they have power over waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified. And they of the tribes, and peoples, and tongues, and nations, shall see their bodies for three days and a half: and they shall not suffer their bodies to be laid in sepulchres. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry: and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt upon the earth.

And after three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them. And they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon them that saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven, saying to them: Come up hither. And they went up to heaven in a cloud: and their enemies saw them.

It has been commonly accepted that these two witnesses are Enoch (Henoch) and Elijah (Elias) since at least the time of St. Irenaeus (+202). St. Robert Bellarmine even goes so far as to say that it is heresy or at least proximate to heresy to reject that the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah.

The roles of Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses are principally to convert the Jews:
St. Augustine:

After admonishing them to give heed to the law of Moses, as he foresaw that for a long time to come they would not understand it spiritually and rightly, he went on to say, “And, behold, I will send to you Elias the Tishbite before the great and signal day of the Lord come: and he shall turn the heart of the father to the son, and the heart of a man to his next of kin, lest I come and utterly smite the earth.” [Mal 4:5-6] It is a familiar theme in the conversation and heart of the faithful, that in the last days before the judgment the Jews shall believe in the true Christ, that is, our Christ, by means of this great and admirable prophet Elias who shall expound the law to them.

Remember that St. John the Baptist fulfilled a type of Elias:
Mt. 11:11-14:

Amen I say to you, there hath not risen among them that are born of women a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is the lesser in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John: And if you will receive it, he is Elias that is to come.

But St. John the Baptist was only a type of Elias, he was not Elias himself:
Jn 1:19-23:

And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites to him, to ask him: Who art thou? And he confessed, and did not deny: and he confessed: I am not the Christ.

And they asked him: What then? Art thou Elias? And he said: I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered: No. They said therefore unto him: Who art thou, that we may give an answer to them that sent us? What sayest thou of thyself? He said: I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaias.

The prophecy of Malachi was well-known and the Jews were expecting Elias to come back before the Christ would come. St. John the Baptist was a type of Elias, who came before the coming of Christ indeed, but Elias himself will come again with Henoch before the Second Coming of Christ in order to convert the Jews.
2Cor 3:13-16:

And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void. But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. But when they shall be converted to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Only a small number of Jews recognized the Messiah and became Christians. But before the Second Coming, many of them will be converted.
Rom 11:25-28:

For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in. And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers.

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

How did you know that Joseph died in Jesus’ arms?

St. Joseph is not mentioned after the finding of Jesus in the Temple. So we suppose reasonably that he died. This is also supported by the fact that Our Lady went to live with St. John after Christ’s Ascension. It is fitting that St. Joseph did not die alone but rather died in the arms of Our Lord and Our Lady.

It is pious tradition. This is the reason that St. Joseph is considered the patron saint of a happy death.

http://sistersop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/death-st-joseph-alonso-cano.jpg

 

[Insight]

Christ did not open Heaven until He ascended

“And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem”(Luke 9:31).

“And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into Heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal” (2 Kings 1:2).

The Bible doesn’t say Elijah was taken to Limbo, the Bible uses the word “Heaven”.

God Bless

 

[Sufjon]

As I’ve said a number of times here, the genius of Christianity was to invent an illness (“You’re All Doomed!”) and announce itself as the only cure.

I never heard you say that before, but I like it.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[VivaCristoRey27]

“And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem”(Luke 9:31).

“And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into Heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal” (2 Kings 1:2).

The Bible doesn’t say Elijah was taken to Limbo, the Bible uses the word “Heaven”.

God Bless

And Catholic Tradition has told us that Elijah was taken up to the “third heaven”, that is, paradise, of which St. Paul wrote:
2Cor 12:2-4:

I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), That he was caught up into paradise, and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter.

If you are Catholic, then Catholic dogma and teaching should be important to you. The Church has a right to interpret Scripture and explain the teachings of the Christian religion dogmatically. Limbo is Catholic dogma and a Catholic cannot deny it without abandoning the Catholic faith. So be careful how you approach this situation.

 

[Insight]

Limbo is Catholic dogma

If you do some searching, you will find that the concept of Limbo has never been anything more than theological speculation.

Let the Catechism of the Catholic Church be your guide, as said in #1261

Well, Limbo of Infants has not been defined, or revealed as Heaven, Hell and Purgatory have been.

“Limbo is not a dogma”: EWTN - Faith

God Bless