Catholic Cardinal says we no longer need Jesus

  • Thread starter Thread starter excatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
‘There appears to be more here than meets the eye from my pespective.’

i have no doubt that this is indeed the case. there is ALWAYS much more here than meets the eye.

but when we dig deeply ENOUGH, we find the truth. the truth that the church teaches, and the pope beautifully embodies. kissing is a sign of veneration, and showing respect and veneration for the ‘holy book’ of the muslims is going to win over the hearts of many more muslims, i’d wager, than the sword will.
 
‘If I met those two men I would say, Forget about what that Cardinal told you… you aren’t just fine. Your house is on fire and I know who can save you! Let me tell you about my best friend Jesus… who loves you so much he died for you. If that makes me obnoxious - so be it.’

so do you think these men would listen to you? are you more concerned about these men, or your duty to evangelize?
 
jeffreedy789 said:
‘If I met those two men I would say, Forget about what that Cardinal told you… you aren’t just fine. Your house is on fire and I know who can save you! Let me tell you about my best friend Jesus… who loves you so much he died for you. If that makes me obnoxious - so be it.’

so do you think these men would listen to you? are you more concerned about these men, or your duty to evangelize?
Click to expand...

So much more concerned with these men. Because unlike the Cardinal, I do not believe they are on the road to heaven. I believe apart from Jesus they will die in their sins. That grieves me. Would they listen? I would hope that the Holy Spirit would work in their hearts… just like it worked in mine. How far have we gotten that we can’t even agree that it’s of UTMOST importance to tell people about Jesus? I’ve been reading a Book of Saints Book to my kids and so many of the Saints went to such extream lengths to tell non believers about Christ! They traveled so far - endured terrible trials because they knew the people needed to hear the life saving message about Jesus. Fast forward to today and we have the next Pope (?) … sitting right next to non believers whom he declares to be just fine because why? They are good people. I’m glad the Saints didn’t feel that way. It’s pathetic - surely you must know that???
 
jeffreedy789 said:
‘There appears to be more here than meets the eye from my pespective.’

i have no doubt that this is indeed the case. there is ALWAYS much more here than meets the eye.

but when we dig deeply ENOUGH, we find the truth. the truth that the church teaches, and the pope beautifully embodies. kissing is a sign of veneration, and showing respect and veneration for the ‘holy book’ of the muslims is going to win over the hearts of many more muslims, i’d wager, than the sword will.
Click to expand...

Friend the Bible, Gods Word teaches the truth.
 
excatholic - in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the Word of God. i think it’s imperative that we learn to obey the person, rather than limiting ourselves to only the book.

carol marie - do you think that if this bishop had tried to ‘lead this men to Christ’, that it would have succeeded in their conversions? do we even know that he didn’t try?

i know that if i were muslim, and i heard of a catholic man who loved me and didn’t condemn me, i would much more inclined to listen to him, than if he was ‘obnoxious’ to me. in another thread, a young girl is asking what she should do about the ‘mean lady’ who keeps telling her that she is worshiping mary. do you think that perhaps this ‘mean lady’ could use the same love and grace that we’re seeing on the part of this bishop?

truth is important, carol marie. as i know you know. but love is our greatest commandment. we’re commanded to love, not to be right. the church is right, is true. it stands up to the blasts of modern relativism. we don’t have to worry about ‘being right all of the time’, because we’re in a church against which the gates of hell will not prevail.

this affords us the grace to be loving to those who have not yet come to see the Truth.
 
Well I guess since the kind Cardinal who didn’t “offend” them made them more inclinded to listen to the NEXT Christian who comes along, I’m going to pray that person comes soon. Hopefully that Christian will tell the the Muslum & the Buddist about Jesus before they are forced to count on their own “goodness” to get them into heaven.
 
Again, how do I know he didn’t try to lead them to Christ? Because if he tried and they rejected, they don’t go to heaven. If he tried and they accepted, they no longer serve the example of someone who is saved apart from believing in Christ.
 
i don’t think that’s conclusive evidence.

yes, we should certainly pray for these men, that they might come into the fullness of Truth, just as we still need to come into that fullness ourselves.

God’s grace be with you, carol marie. i’m glad you’re ‘fighting it out’ and not just giving up. 🙂 may God bless your struggle. did you know that ‘israel’ means ‘struggles with God’? as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, i think He is pleased with the quivers of our wrestlings.
 
carol marie:
So much more concerned with these men. Because unlike the Cardinal, I do not believe they are on the road to heaven. I believe apart from Jesus they will die in their sins. That grieves me. Would they listen? I would hope that the Holy Spirit would work in their hearts… just like it worked in mine. How far have we gotten that we can’t even agree that it’s of UTMOST importance to tell people about Jesus? I’ve been reading a Book of Saints Book to my kids and so many of the Saints went to such extream lengths to tell non believers about Christ! They traveled so far - endured terrible trials because they knew the people needed to hear the life saving message about Jesus. Fast forward to today and we have the next Pope (?) … sitting right next to non believers whom he declares to be just fine because why? They are good people. I’m glad the Saints didn’t feel that way. It’s pathetic - surely you must know that???
Click to expand...
I agree friend, the RCC is seting the stage for a post rapture world wide religion that will be inforced by the antichrist. If Jesus is your Lord and not the RCC and you love Adonai with your whole heart you will be saved regardless of false doctrine you may be hearing. As for me I could no longer take it. Gods Word says this,Mat.15:9 *And in vain they worship Me, *Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Ask yourself if some of the dogma sounds like the commandments of men? Jesus said " a new commandment I give you that you Love one another" I love you friend and so does our Lord.
 
‘If Jesus is your Lord and not the RCC’

i doubt if you’ll find anyone who calls the RCC their Lord.

we do worship Jesus, you know. 🙂

peace be with you, my friend.
 
Ex-Catholic,
You still have not told us the name of your church which traces its roots back to the apostolic church at Jerusalem. I am really interested to know, and to learn exactly how you trace those roots.
Unitl you answer those questions, I am really not intersted in anything you have to say.
Paul
 
Excatholic: Why did you ignore the posts regarding your claims of the ancient nature of your church? The early Christians were Catholics. This is clear in the early writings of the Church Fathers, starting from the late first century on. It seems that you do not understand Catholic dogma. I don’t mean to insult you by saying this, but it is clear from your posts that you do not know much about the Catholic Church. (And the fact that you say you are a former Catholic does not change this…sadly, there are many Catholics who do not know their faith). The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of Christ and thus outside of Christ’s Church. But it is possible for some to be saved outside the Church, if they, out of no fault of their own, seek God. They must respond to what they have. If someone knows nothing of Christ, for example, how can they be saved? God will judge them on what they knew. Oh, and the Church is NOT setting herself up for the ‘one world religion’ (which she herself warns of)…the Catholic Church claims to be the ONE holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. Christ’s one and only true Church, that alone contains the fullness of Truth. How could such a Church merge with other religions that do not contain the Truth? Remember, that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. (1 Tim. 3:15). Many people have been where you are right now…but if you dig deeper into the Truth, rather than simply following the claims and misconceptions of anti-Catholics, you may see that you really do not know that much about the Catholic Faith, and that it is perhaps worth a second look.

CarolMarie: The constant teaching of the Church for 2000 years has been that “outside the Church there is no salvation”. Do you realize that this teaching that those who, out of no fault of their own, seek God, but are not within the visible confines of the Church can be saved, is the only way that Catholics can even consider the salvation of Protestants? I believe many Protestants will be saved, because they do sincerely seek Christ and are ignorant of the true nature of Christ’s Church…but the truth remains that there is no salvation outside of Christ, and thus outside the Church. This teaching is already seen in the writings of St. Ignatius, the disciple of the Apostle John, who, it seems, did not see heretics and schismatics as ‘saved’.
Christ promised that anyone who rejects His apostles, rejects Him. The same principle applies today. Anyone who rejects Christ’s Church, rejects Christ. This truth may sit uncomfortable with Protestant converts (I’m one myself! Not yet confirmed), but it is an issue we must deal with. Protestants are not guaranteed salvation…only God can judge their hearts, but we must remember that they have left the bosom of Holy Mother Church.
 
Excatholic,

You seem to know quite a lot about what you know. I am sure that we all appreciate your effort to come here and save us from our misguided religion. However, because we read the Bible and follow our Lord and Savior in every way that we know how, we believe that we have the truth. If somehow we are missing the truth, tell us where we can find it? My brother, we love you as you must love us, so why would you keep your knowledge from us? We believe that the Holy Spirit guides us to the truth that we know and he has provided us with an ancient Bible as reference. When we have questions about this book, we can ask our teachers in our Church and if they don’t know the correct answer they can find a higher authority or expert on this text. This is comforting for us to know that our Church provides a knowledge base to help us with our questions. This knowledge is guided by the Holy Spirit and is Provided by Jesus himself. I do hope that you have the same opportunities in your church to find answers when you are struggling with the book. After all, you know how confusing some of it is. I also hope that you were led here out of your own curiosity and wanting to seek our knowledge as and ends to the truth. I certainly pray that you were not led here by some diabolical plot to weaken our faith. After all, only Satan would be so interested, and if this is your calling, then the wrong master is leading you.

excatholic,

May the Peace and the Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ Be With You.
 
excatholic
#63 Friend the Bible, Gods Word teaches the truth.
Click to expand...
The Analysis of a Smear

by Father Benedict J. Groeschel, C.F.R.

I have been expecting a smear attack from the anti-Catholic segment of the media for years, and on March 2, 2003, it came. The Dallas* Morning News…*
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/smear.htm

3/6/74 - “Witchcraft Defended”, Doug Domeier, Dallas Morning News, 2 pp(UA)

The Dallas Morning News attacks the Catholic Church at every opportunity with hate, bigotry and misrepresentation, and has no regard whatsoever for responsible journalism, and supports witchcraft.

Mr. excatholic, for someone who holds a cheap anti-Christian tabloid as truth, I respectfully submit to you that you don’t know what truth is.

Just one question, for now. Why is it that when a Protestant comes home to the Church Jesus founded, they still revere their former faith, and can even attend their old church, but when a Catholic turns his back on his faith, he becomes an anti-Catholic?

kepha1
 
So let me get this straight, anyone can get to heaven and we don’t need Jesus to get there.
Click to expand...
No, you don’t have it straight at all. Job was not Jewish, the evidence points to him being a Babylonian, because Ur was Babylonian territory and the manner of his offerings suggest Babylonian, not Hebrew. Yet the Word of God says

Job:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil.

According to your line of thinking, which sounds like fundamentalism to me, Job is in hell.

Matthew 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; be it done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.

How, or when, did the servant accept Jesus, and get healed when the servant had never seen or heard of Him?

1 Cor. 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband.

What does consecrated mean, excatholic? Aren’t all unbelievers going to hell?

Matt. 25:31-46 - Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

What you fail to understand, excatholic is that people can be saved without following evangelical formulas. Jesus is the only way to the Father, and that has been Catholic teaching from the beginning of Christianity and still is today and will always be. But salvation is not up to our understanding of how Jesus should do His job. Just because you found Jesus outside of the walls of a Catholic Church does not mean He is not there.
 
carol marie:
Again, how do I know he didn’t try to lead them to Christ? Because if he tried and they rejected, they don’t go to heaven. If he tried and they accepted, they no longer serve the example of someone who is saved apart from believing in Christ.
Click to expand...
Carol Marie I can see why you are a bit stressed out at the moment and that’s OK. Maybe you have had doubts and fears and suddenly all these are coming to the surface. Don’t be scared, because God will lead you to the Truth if you maintain an open mind and heart.

From my perspective, this Cardinal does have a point. He also needs to be given the benefit of the doubt, like most people. He should be assessed according to all he has said and done.

Apparently, he works in some capacity on inter-faith dialogue. Now this sort of work carries with it a dilemma. If you state in advance that you are going to preach to other religious leaders, they will either not meet with you or they will do the same back to you, and you will get nowhere. You could lie to them and tell them that you won’t preach but then once you meet them go back on your word, but that will affect your reputation and lead even less people to meet with you in the future. Or you could simply have no inter-faith dialogue which will simply create blocs of believers who never hear what the others are about.

Simply telling these people about Jesus and how they will suffer if they don’t worship him and do his will, will possibly drive them away. But by living a good example, preaching His Word through actions and not just words, more could be reached. An example of this is what occurred during the Holocaust where certain Jews became Catholics after seeing the goodness in their actions.

As for this Cardinal saying that they will go to heaven (or he subjectively believes they will) even though they have heard of Christ and not followed him, that is more complex. I can see why you might be confused because I can also see why this might be seen as wrong. But how culpable a person is for not believing is a very complex issue. It is not just how willing, but how capable a person is of accepting the Truth that forms the basis of their judgement (I imagine).

Perhaps the Cardinal felt that these people were so fixed in their beliefs that they were incapable of accepting anything else (much like faithful Christians are unlikely to even consider the Muslim faith) and therefore were not simply unwilling to accept Christ.

p.s. this post is the opinion of a non-expert, and it’s just an opinion.
 
I am anathema (damned or condemned) because I cant swallow transubstantiation, no pun intended.
Click to expand...
No. But you will be damned if you have full understanding of the teaching and have a post-baptismal denial of a revealed truth. My guess is that you don’t have a clue, because if you really were a practicing Catholic they way it should be practiced, you wouldn’t be making such absurd remarks. My other guess is that you never were a Catholic, but use that screen name because it creates an illusion of credibility.
To anyone who relies upon the RCC for salvation know this. John 14:5-6 says “5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me
Click to expand...
What the Church teaches is what Jesus teaches, and what Jesus teaches (which is the same as the Church) is what we rely on for our salvation, and the Catechism clearly states our salvation comes from God and God alone.

The anti-Catholic lies that you fall for are the product of hateful bigots who are getting rich by selling their books and tapes at your expense. They will be accountable for bearing false witness, violating the 8th commandment. Remember what I said about the Dallas Morning News. The spirit is the same.

kepha1
 
Carol Marie,

I have to echo what Teajay wrote. I think you are being exceptionally legalistic in regards to this Cardinal. You are making assumptions that may or may not have any basis in fact, and putting the worst possible spin on his actions. In fostering good relations with people of other religions in order to bring them to Christ, it is essential for them to respect you and to trust you. Telling them that they’re going to hell if they don’t accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour is probably going to lose you more converts than you gain. St Francis said, “Preach the Gospel constantly. Use words if necessary.” Telling someone right off the bat that their thinking is flawed is not going to benefit them or you.
 
40.png
jimmy:
You also make the mistake of thinking that God only came to save some. His sacrifice on the cross was for everyone. You are assuming that thesacrifice was only for the Christians. If someone is truely looking for the truth, even though he may not find it, he may be saved as long as he lives according to what he knows of God.
Click to expand...
Jimmy read what you posted and then read this John14:5-6
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Yes Jimmy you are right when you say his sacrifice was for every one but God’ Word says in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. God is a meciful and just God. We have to believe on him for our salvation. John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jimmy Jesus said it so I believe it, he is God and the RCC is not. However the RCC does teach the pope to be god on earth. Apostasy I say.
 
Ex, you joined yesterday and have 25 posts. Are you okay? You select scripture like a smorgasborg and passionately promote a obviously viscious, distorted, probably illegally changed newspaper article. Grab a bible, pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding, and invest your soul in it please. Accept it in toto. The common core off all Christian Religions has love of man and God deeply inside. Start from that paradigm and not from a devisive, protesting (details) one that might come from the Evil One. IHS Daryl
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top