Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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ynotzap said:
Some of us Catholics need to really study and really believe that Jesus must be glorified in their lives by really turning to Him and receive His Spirit. What is refused is given to another. Grace acomplishes what it was given for, and does not return empty. God makes no worthless, and fruitless moves.
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Luke 19:37-40 can be instructive in this regard. As Jesus rode the colt into Jerusalem, His disciples sang out loudly. The Pharisees asked our Lord to quiet those praises. His reply was that if they held their peace, the very stones would then cry out. This bears out your words exactly, and is apparently one reason that the Spirit was manifested among our separated brothers once stifled in our own house. Since all good on earth is done by the power of the Holy Spirit, it is a blessing that our Holy Father is teaching on the charisms.

ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-begins-new-catechesis-on-gifts-of-the-holy-spirit/

And an excerpt from his now famous interview as he flew to Rome from World Youth Day:
On his flight from Rio de Janeiro back to Rome, pope Francis said:
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“I’ll tell you something about the Charismatic Movement … at the end of the ’70s and in the ’80s, I wasn’t a big fan. I used to say they confused the holy liturgy with a school of samba. I was converted when I got to know them better and saw the good they do. In this moment of the life of the church, the movements are necessary. They’re a grace of the Spirit, and in general, they do much good for the church. The charismatic renewal movement isn’t just about winning back a few Pentecostals, but it serves the church and its renewal.”
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“I used to say they confused the holy liturgy with a school of samba.” - Pope Francis

Do charismatics, generally speaking, consider their prayer meetings a substitute for the mass?
 
Thanks for this thread. Our Diocese is offering an opportunity to discern our charisms, at the same time I heard some very pro-talk at our Bible study that worried me and a conversation with my Evangelical brother didn’t help.

Although I signed up for the course (it is reputable and Catholic), many doubts are returning. Our Diocese is saying that discerning these gifts will enrich the Church and ourselves, a priest told me everyone has charisms and my brother emphatically said I don’t. On the latter point I felt much better as the way he said the way charisms worked seemed to me to be restrictive, focused on self and is used to look down on others.

Now I am conflicted and wondering whether or not to go ahead with the course (yet again). I want to support the parish and diocese and please God, so it would help to know how, in case I am getting it wrong. But on the other hand, I could lose so much e.g. anonymous joyful giving and prayers (of all kinds) fettered into strangling dull straight-jackets. If I have no charisms, it would be a relief, but then if I don’t find any, it seems I would be letting God and the Church down. Every time it seems as if I can move forward with an open heart and mind, I get enveloped in clouds of crippling confusing doubt. I normally feel this way when I have something that needs taking to the Sacrament of Reconciliation and not on other matters.

It would be helpful to have some insights, especially from Catholics who have discerned charisms.
 
Counterpoint said:
“I used to say they confused the holy liturgy with a school of samba.” - Pope Francis

Do charismatics, generally speaking, consider their prayer meetings a substitute for the mass?
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**Catholic **charismatics consider the Holy Eucharist as the source and summit of our Faith. “For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ Himself, our Pasch.” (CCC, 1324; CCC, 864)

Catholic charismatics do not substitute prayer meetings or anything else for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
 
Counterpoint said:
“I used to say they confused the holy liturgy with a school of samba.” - Pope Francis

Do charismatics, generally speaking, consider their prayer meetings a substitute for the mass?
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Certainly not! They are 100% Catholic. There will be some special charismatic masses celebrated, but charismatics are in the pews right next to the rest of us at mass.
 
As Catholics we were all baptized in the Holy Spirit through the waters.
 
Avila123 said:
Thanks for this thread. Our Diocese is offering an opportunity to discern our charisms, at the same time I heard some very pro-talk at our Bible study that worried me and a conversation with my Evangelical brother didn’t help.

Although I signed up for the course (it is reputable and Catholic), many doubts are returning. Our Diocese is saying that discerning these gifts will enrich the Church and ourselves, a priest told me everyone has charisms and my brother emphatically said I don’t. On the latter point I felt much better as the way he said the way charisms worked seemed to me to be restrictive, focused on self and is used to look down on others.

Now I am conflicted and wondering whether or not to go ahead with the course (yet again). I want to support the parish and diocese and please God, so it would help to know how, in case I am getting it wrong. But on the other hand, I could lose so much e.g. anonymous joyful giving and prayers (of all kinds) fettered into strangling dull straight-jackets. If I have no charisms, it would be a relief, but then if I don’t find any, it seems I would be letting God and the Church down. Every time it seems as if I can move forward with an open heart and mind, I get enveloped in clouds of crippling confusing doubt. I normally feel this way when I have something that needs taking to the Sacrament of Reconciliation and not on other matters.

It would be helpful to have some insights, especially from Catholics who have discerned charisms.
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Every baptized believer has a charism. Period. As to doubts, just know that the devil plants the seeds of doubt. He hates the charisms, as they are a God-given gift that opposes him by building the Church up. Resist him, and he will flee (James 4:7).

Read Matthew 25:14-30. It applies to our charisms. We have each been given at least one charism. We are expected to use that charism for the building up of the Church - the “profit” that the Master expects upon His return.

I realized my charism after receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It absolutely changed my faith life. No comparison. You may have the gift of tongues - or you may not. You most certainly have a gift (charism). God gives them to each believer as He sees fit.

Some charisms are quiet and only God sees them in action. They are no less of a blessing than any other gift He gives.
 
adawgj said:
As Catholics we were all baptized in the Holy Spirit through the waters.
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Of course! But, please do not confuse the baptism in the Holy Spirit with any of the Sacraments. It is not a Sacrament, and much confusion over this has been spread around. We will clear that up right here and right now, of we are allowed to.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a prayer experience that must be participated in to fully appreciate.
 
po18guy said:
Every baptized believer has a charism. Period. As to doubts, just know that the devil plants the seeds of doubt. He hates the charisms, as they are a God-given gift that opposes him by building the Church up. Resist him, and he will flee (James 4:7).

Read Matthew 25:14-30. It applies to our charisms. We have each been given at least one charism. We are expected to use that charism for the building up of the Church - the “profit” that the Master expects upon His return.

I realized my charism after receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It absolutely changed my faith life. No comparison. You may have the gift of tongues - or you may not. You most certainly have a gift (charism). God gives them to each believer as He sees fit.

Some charisms are quiet and only God sees them in action. They are no less of a blessing than any other gift He gives.
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Thank you. I will let the doubts come, pray and leave my application for the course alone.
 
po18guy said:
Certainly not! They are 100% Catholic. There will be some special charismatic masses celebrated, but charismatics are in the pews right next to the rest of us at mass.
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What do you think about charismatic masses?
 
Maxime_Indigent said:
I don’t think I’ve heard of “baptism” by the Holy Spirit before.
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It is also known as being “slain in the Spirit”, or “resting in the Spirit.” It is a willful act of docility and submission to the Holy Spirit.
Counterpoint said:
What exactly did you experience? (That’s what I’m interested in here. And that’s why I started the thread.)
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Each soul senses or feels something different. Often, it is a sense of complete bodily relaxation and interior peace. Some may feel nothing at all. Or maybe it will occur later. The baptism in the Holy Spirit (BITHS) is intended to release or activate the use of the charism that we received at our baptism. Many of us had it locked up out of fear or hardness of heart.
 
po18guy said:
Each soul senses or feels something different. Often, it is a sense of complete bodily relaxation and interior peace. Some may feel nothing at all. Or maybe it will occur later. The baptism in the Holy Spirit (BITHS) is intended to release or activate the use of the charism that we received at our baptism. Many of us had it locked up out of fear or hardness of heart.
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But what did you specifically experience?
 
Counterpoint said:
What do you think about charismatic masses?
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They are 100% legitimate masses and, just as with a “standard” mass, miracles can occur. They are not everyone’s cup of tea. I would suggest contacting the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in your diocese and attending one as an observer, and to ask questions before and after. It is good to remember here that the mass is the Church’s greatest prayer, and that syles of prayer are different around this world. Each mass contains the same substance, even if some masses differ slightly in non-critical details.
 
Counterpoint said:
But what did you specifically experience?
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That sense of complete bodily relaxation and interior peace. For that reason, there are parishioners ready to catch you if your relax bodily.

There is genuine irony in the fact that we fear docility to the Holy Spirit, yet the Spirit, once submitted to, will erase our fear.
 
Charisms are not restricted to just the classical charisms Prophesy, tongues, healing, discernment of spirit, Interpretation of tongues, charismatic faith, St. Paul speaks of the gifts of Apostolate, teaching, exhortation, canticles and the gift of envangelist and those mentioned above. they are gratuitous(freely given) and transitory supernatural conferred on the individual in view of the general good for the building of the Church, mystical body of Christ Other gifts were intended for spiritual direction and charitable assistance of the faithful: gifts of government, of ministry, of alms, gifts of patronate ( of orphans and widows), hospitality, of faith (effective of miracles) Vaticanll warns about the use of this gift, and exorcism. And God respects the authority He gives to the Church about binding.and He gives gifts of power, healing and resurrection of the dead.

In my Lay Apostolate , I have been active in it consciously for 59 years even though the Church says we are all lay apostles made so by Baptism. God called me into this movement around l969-70. As I stated before I spent l7 years in this Charismatic movement and experience many spiritual manifestation. I believe it was because the movement was in its infancy, and I know the devil tried to destroy it. My interest was in Jesus, and His Church. I saw so much wrong, things that conflicted with Church teaching, scandal, ineffective conversion practices. I was saddened and angry for what was happening in our faith. God led me to what was going on through some painful experiences. I loved our Faith, and I loved Christ like so many of us do and I saw what was happening to the children. It took the grace of God to open my eyes of blindness when he introduced me to the devil. As a Lay Apostle Jesus gives me any Charism that I need to proclaim His Kingdom, and Jesus Christ Himself . God does indeed bless us with His talents, big or small, one or many to spread the Good News, avoid Elitism, Gods’ gifts bring unity, love, and joy, to be part of His family. Each of is is a Living Stone of His Church, and we are all part of One Body, the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ A Body of Many Parts, and all are important.
 
po18guy said:
That sense of complete bodily relaxation and interior peace. For that reason, there are parishioners ready to catch you if your relax bodily.
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Are you saying that you felt so relaxed and peaceful that you almost passed out?
 
po18guy said:
They are 100% legitimate masses and, just as with a “standard” mass, miracles can occur. They are not everyone’s cup of tea. I would suggest contacting the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in your diocese and attending one as an observer, and to ask questions before and after. It is good to remember here that the mass is the Church’s greatest prayer, and that syles of prayer are different around this world. Each mass contains the same substance, even if some masses differ slightly in non-critical details.
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Why does the “charismatic movement” engender so much contention?
 
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