Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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It was new to tradional catholics who are used to the formal, controlled liturgy. It was due to a lack of understanding by leaders in the Church (not surprising). It was started by the laity, not by its leaders. Some misrepresentation by Catholics who didn’t understand their own faith. A lack of acknowledgement of the Holy Spirits actions in the faithful. The devil A lot of misunderstanding all the way around. We have a Faith thats filled with Holy Truth, the Spirit, but I noticed we lacked alot of religious sentiment. Our worship was a purely spiritual one as it should be. When it is we experience a lot of spiritual arridity and dryness, a lack of life. When people experience a touch of the supernatural it makes them alive in worship, not only spiritually but physically, wholly human, holy feelings and holy thoughts, not angelism, pure thought which we aren,t. Vatican ll was a pastoral council dealing with the spiritual problems of the church. the privious Councils dealt with dogma The Bishops were reminded in a talk given by Father Riccardo Lombardi, S.J. 1965.

He met Angelo Roncalli (Cardinal ) Pope John XXIII elected. He asked the Pope what he was going to do for the Church, and he answered, :Father I am not here to guide the church; I am here to recognize that which the Holy Spirit does in the Church. He also mentioned many things started by the laity, not its leaders. He stated that the laity of the Catholic church formed a most mediocre group and he stated that the laity of Protestantism exceeds the Catholic Church in many nations and has done much for humanity. He stated that Communism was started by the laity. He said that was it not too much Clericalism? Feeling that they have to guide the people in everything. He reminded that Bishops stating that they said there was so much that the laity could do. He stated the question; “Why then are our laymen so infantile? Because of our exaggerated clericalism we have left the faithful as children. The spiritual talk made many other points
about the priesthood of the people, their lay-apostolate. He also mentioned " Don’t quench the Spirit”
 
ynotzap said:
It was new to tradional catholics who are used to the formal, controlled liturgy. It was due to a lack of understanding by leaders in the Church (not surprising). It was started by the laity, not by its leaders. Some misrepresentation by Catholics who didn’t understand their own faith. A lack of acknowledgement of the Holy Spirits actions in the faithful. The devil A lot of misunderstanding all the way around. We have a Faith thats filled with Holy Truth, the Spirit, but I noticed we lacked alot of religious sentiment. Our worship was a purely spiritual one as it should be. When it is we experience a lot of spiritual arridity and dryness, a lack of life. When people experience a touch of the supernatural it makes them alive in worship, not only spiritually but physically, wholly human, holy feelings and holy thoughts, not angelism, pure thought which we aren,t. Vatican ll was a pastoral council dealing with the spiritual problems of the church. the privious Councils dealt with dogma The Bishops were reminded in a talk given by Father Riccardo Lombardi, S.J. 1965.
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Charismatics definitely exhibit more religious enthusiasm.
 
Counterpoint said:
Charismatics definitely exhibit more religious enthusiasm.
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The Holy Spirit is manifested through them in visible ways. This occurs also with all Catholics, but is more visible in the charismatic movement.

Pray tell: How did you become interested in “a course of miracles”, in particular?
 
It has been said by some that the Charismatic Renewal was too emotional for some. In understanding an emotion, perfectly natural to humans, it consists of two parts, one physical, feelings, and one spiritual, thought or comprehension. When we have a supernatural experience with God,in some personal way which may include a healing physical, or spiritual, or just receiving what we expect to receive, knowing it could only come from God we are overjoyed and express our encounter with God with feelings of joy. So an emotion can not be all feeling, it is spiritual too. Some people can express their joy with stronger feelings, but thats O.K. There is no emotion without comprehension, feelings are a natural reaction to what is comprehended.

In the Baptism of the Spirit ( a religious experience) is not the Sacrament of Baptism. Although the religious experience can release the graces found in the Sacraments for example: The gift of the apostolate: can release the gifts of Confirmation, and one can become an “Evangelist” In the Pentecostal Church the reception of the gift of Tongues is a confirmation that they have been touched by the Holy Spirit, and it is not excluding others who wish the same The Baptism of the Spirit treats or is suited to the spiritual needs of the individual, it is personal, and can lead one into a ministry for the Church.

It can effect the spiritual growth of a person, for example from a good spiritual life, to a better one, from a very active physical life to a more contemplative life, from a stressful life to one of more christian peace. The Holy Spirit works wonders, and does increase our love for God. Charisms the word is derived from the word Charity (Love), they are gifts of love from God to serve the Community.

St.Theresa of Avilla, a great Saint and teacher of the Spiritual life stated in her writings that spiritual perfection can be compared to climbing a mountain. When climbing this mountain you have two choices, either you can climb the shear mountain wall (practice the spiritual virtues, with out consolations)or you can take the trail around the mountain that leads to the summit. practice the spiritual virtues with consolation) Along the trail there will be an ocassional oasis (consolation) (Padre Pio experienced this). St. Theresa said she prefers the trip around the mountain
 
po18guy said:
Pray tell: How did you become interested in “a course of miracles”, in particular?
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I read a book entitled “Love Is Letting Go of Fear” (by psychiatrist Gerald Jampolsky). It was a simple read, but I was very impressed with its message - a message inspired by “A Course In Miracles.” That is what sparked my interest.
 
Brought up Catholic and in a big family, great neighborhood, great schools including all the priests , this idea is not for myself.

The whole concept of a group on an emotional shift away from order frightens myself. I fully believe everyone is different and God would be limitless in his ways to inspire . so this is simply explaining.

I guess everyone has experienced unique things. The two for myself one at about 15 and the other about 3 years ago were moving experience’s, wait three one other as well.

In each there was an unforgettable as unique experience goes, but , all three not without a grounding or fundamental in not really fear, but a word close.

The way the movement describes itself is away from everything Ive come to understand and did read Saint Theresa book and a few others and don’t recall this type of translation.

So here is the point,

why in some of these entries and Ive been thinking on them since yesterday, is there this theme…the devil ? The devil is trying his tricks to stop the movement.

Because I could never put myself with my belief in a group away from ordinary order, the introducing of the devil suggests the devil is influencing myself ? so the suggestion is not fair to read, unless the position is in a refusal to see different people are enlightened by different things, but then how could the devil be responsible for not agreeing. So there is something wrong and its somewhat un-settleing. ( edit, reading here is the first I remember even thinking about this for maybe 10 years or so.
 
okay so in follow,

From my understandings God removed fear when he sent the Son but left man with Holy Fear. The concept emphasizes 'joy" in the entries…The Idea seems to be attempting to achieve a type of Christmas Spirit and joy, but to be emphasizing the Holy Spirit, which would be the last supper ambiance. So it seems confusing, plus…as mentioned I believe God would be limitless in His ways to inspire. Anyway no big deal , had no intention of talking about the charismatic and wish all in the groups everywhere well. Its not for everyone. Ive never liked crowds and my family were not into gatherings which are away from order, its more of a signal I suppose. Every-bodies different, its all a garden, truly believe that. Simply tossing things around in my head, feel much better .
 
I would consider myself “Catholic Charismatic”. Although I have seen it addressed in this thread, I have to point out that as a Charismatic I have always considered myself “born again” at the moment I was baptized in the Sacrament of Baptism. I do not know of any charismatics in my prayer group who consider the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” being reborn–at least in the biblical sense and the sense that that the Church teaches. The “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is simply a prayer to ask for the gifts of the Holy Spirit (we are told in Scripture to earnestly desire them) and to humble ourselves to receive them.

You seem interested in experiences so I will share mine:

When I was “baptized in the Holy Spirit” nothing remarkable happened. I did not feel faint or anything like that. I did not receive the gift of praying in tongues immediately, but I did receive that gift later (I was quite surprised actually).

By the grace of God, I have received many gifts; I believe this is because I belong to a community of charismatics. Charismatic gifts are given for the building up of the Body of Christ. I have personally experienced physical healing. I have laid hands on people in prayer who were then healed (not on my power, I assure you, but by the Lord)- sometimes this happens and sometimes not, it is totally up to the Lord. I have “rested in the Spirit” but this is not fainting. I would describe it as a state of being relaxed and in the presence of God. God has given me most of the gifts of 1 Cor 12 at one time or another-- but I have not received interpretation of tongues. I did know someone once (Brother Stanley of the Divine Mercy movement) who said he had received that gift.

In our prayer and Bible study group we have seen sudden and, I believe, miraculous healing from: cancer, heart disease, diabetes, “incurable” nerve disease, and many other things. Recently, one of our women had a grandchild born with a heart defect that was life threatening (a major artery was on the outside of the heart as seen by camera)-- this child was prayed for, and when the doctors went to do the open heart surgery the heart was completely normal.:bowdown:

There are many who doubt that the gifts still operate in believers today; this is sad considering the Scriptures tell us desire them. Not to mention that they have been endorsed by the Church as something that still happens today. HOWEVER, discernment is needed as to what is authentic and what is not. If a “charismatic” is shrieking and rolling on the floor-- who is getting the attention? God or that person? Likewise, are people being brought to Jesus through the movement or away? Are charismatics being obedient to the teaching of the Church, including the General Instruction of the Roman Missal? These are some of the questions I ask myself when testing the fruit.
 
orang said:
So here is the point,

why in some of these entries and Ive been thinking on them since yesterday, is there this theme…the devil ? The devil is trying his tricks to stop the movement.

Because I could never put myself with my belief in a group away from ordinary order, the introducing of the devil suggests the devil is influencing myself ? so the suggestion is not fair to read, unless the position is in a refusal to see different people are enlightened by different things, but then how could the devil be responsible for not agreeing. So there is something wrong and its somewhat un-settleing. ( edit, reading here is the first I remember even thinking about this for maybe 10 years or so.
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In fairness, as the mention of the devil appeared in a response to my post, I hope that I can throw some light on this. The person who replied was offering an insight on why I might be suffering from waves of crippling anxiety and doubt. The feelings are similar to those that I feel on occasions before going to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. They were simply pointing out that only one being who doesn’t want me to go to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, seemingly doesn’t want me to attend this course. I won’t bore anyone with the details but in a nutshell, I want to please God but it was wearing me out (I took too much on) and it seemed that the course was an opportunity to receive guidance of best serving God and the Church.

The response was for one person (who has mislaid a rudder) in a particular situation. We are like a rich garden of flowers each blossoming at different times, needing different amounts of various nutrients throughout the year and tending, in accordance with our needs. Giving each flower the same nutrients, disregarding the needs of the plant or the season, would destroy some and damage others. The course seems to be a nutrient this flower needs, it won’t make me blossom better than a fine rose, but God-willing will help me over any stunts in growth.

I hope this helps
 
Thanks for reading. I’m going to read the replies now. Wanted to say because I was reading something else .
 
The reason the devil is mentioned is because he tries to deceive by imitating the Holy Spirit that is why when you have “signs” you also need the gift of discernment, to differentiate between the actions of a good spirit or an evil one. I have experience this kind of deception. St. Ignatius of Loyola explains the rules for discerning the spirits in the Spiritual Exercises. We need the guidance of the Church on these matters, and her Saints. Disorder at these meetings is not from God. The Charismatic Renewal may not appeal to every one, but the Baptism of the Spirit , I found, always does. I can pray in Tongues especially when discursive prayer becomes dry or hard ( it is using your mind in conversation with God). When I use Tongues, I am praying from the heart, with desire, I bipass my mind. I do use discursive prayer most of the time, same as a regular conversation with God. St.Paul stated that he can pray in Tongues, but also in other ways, his own language.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I would consider myself “Catholic Charismatic”. Although I have seen it addressed in this thread, I have to point out that as a Charismatic I have always considered myself “born again” at the moment I was baptized in the Sacrament of Baptism. I do not know of any charismatics in my prayer group who consider the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” being reborn–at least in the biblical sense and the sense that that the Church teaches. The “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is simply a prayer to ask for the gifts of the Holy Spirit (we are told in Scripture to earnestly desire them) and to humble ourselves to receive them.

You seem interested in experiences so I will share mine:

When I was “baptized in the Holy Spirit” nothing remarkable happened. I did not feel faint or anything like that. I did not receive the gift of praying in tongues immediately, but I did receive that gift later (I was quite surprised actually).

By the grace of God, I have received many gifts; I believe this is because I belong to a community of charismatics. Charismatic gifts are given for the building up of the Body of Christ. I have personally experienced physical healing. I have laid hands on people in prayer who were then healed (not on my power, I assure you, but by the Lord)- sometimes this happens and sometimes not, it is totally up to the Lord. I have “rested in the Spirit” but this is not fainting. I would describe it as a state of being relaxed and in the presence of God. God has given me most of the gifts of 1 Cor 12 at one time or another-- but I have not received interpretation of tongues. I did know someone once (Brother Stanley of the Divine Mercy movement) who said he had received that gift.

In our prayer and Bible study group we have seen sudden and, I believe, miraculous healing from: cancer, heart disease, diabetes, “incurable” nerve disease, and many other things. Recently, one of our women had a grandchild born with a heart defect that was life threatening (a major artery was on the outside of the heart as seen by camera)-- this child was prayed for, and when the doctors went to do the open heart surgery the heart was completely normal.:bowdown:

There are many who doubt that the gifts still operate in believers today; this is sad considering the Scriptures tell us desire them. Not to mention that they have been endorsed by the Church as something that still happens today. HOWEVER, discernment is needed as to what is authentic and what is not. If a “charismatic” is shrieking and rolling on the floor-- who is getting the attention? God or that person? Likewise, are people being brought to Jesus through the movement or away? Are charismatics being obedient to the teaching of the Church, including the General Instruction of the Roman Missal? These are some of the questions I ask myself when testing the fruit.
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Okay thanks and I really don’t know too much other then what I read , have never been to a meeting or gathering. I realize and have read the great dedication and to be sure many lives have changed for the better.

When enthusiasm becomes excitement I get bad vibes because it would be a general psychological mis-management of excitement which would be the emotion in question, opening the wrong doors from the outset.

But, most important the gained stability in the order of the belief which is what is being attested to, good to hear.

Plus as mentioned all I know , is things I read.

I don’t think at Fatima or Lourdes where healing has gone on, there is the excitement, for example my Parents went over and its Rosary prayer and regular church things… Anyway I am privileged to meet your acquaintance and have never talked to anyone connected with the charismatic. There was a new deacon at the church some years ago who was enthused about it , and started it up. I liked him , some didn’t , but couldn’t see his personality being one to be too far engaged that things became more, as things are heard about. Maybe its the words used to describe the experience, they are all heightened.

We simply think a little different and that’s all.

Healing does not impress my thinking, Mary told at Fatima , most important accept and bear with submission the sufferings the Lord sends. At Fatima and Lourdes from what I understand its not really the healing, its the placing of the self in the presence, and if healed well that is God’s wish. It could be connected back to the Bible and won’t disagree there. So its quite a world and I guess thankfully people can learn off each other by being different.

When the talking in tongues can speak to people from another country starving or for a purpose, then well maybe it would be something. Maybe I mis understood but didn’t you say you could speak in tongues but you don’t have the gift to understand it ?

Saint Catherine of Sienna explains born again in a very inspiring way, it seems a good one,
The believer is always being born anew in the stable of self knowledge, referring to virtue humility, servant of mother virtue charity. So clothed in humanity , in a cold stable Gods rescue begins. Anyway just another day and I’m hoping for good weather, this winter has been awful. We just think different , that’s all, plus its only from what I read and can imagine.
 
ynotzap said:
The reason the devil is mentioned is because he tries to deceive by imitating the Holy Spirit that is why when you have “signs” you also need the gift of discernment, to differentiate between the actions of a good spirit or an evil one. I have experience this kind of deception. St. Ignatius of Loyola explains the rules for discerning the spirits in the Spiritual Exercises. We need the guidance of the Church on these matters, and her Saints. Disorder at these meetings is not from God. The Charismatic Renewal may not appeal to every one, but the Baptism of the Spirit , I found, always does. I can pray in Tongues especially when discursive prayer becomes dry or hard ( it is using your mind in conversation with God). When I use Tongues, I am praying from the heart, with desire, I bipass my mind. I do use discursive prayer most of the time, same as a regular conversation with God. St.Paul stated that he can pray in Tongues, but also in other ways, his own language.
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I’m sorry but had to stop half way through, did you say the devil can be at these gatherings ?
 
The devil is always around seeking to devour some soul by his deceits and temptation. He is hidden, behind the scene. When spiritual signs are involved like in the Charismatic Prayer Meetings he can produce signs also, imitating the actions of the Holy Spirit. His actions are manifest. Where ever sin is committed you can be assured that he is there, and this happens in every day life. Not to worry as long as Jesus is at the center of your prayer meeting, Satan flees at the Name of Jesus The signs the devil produces are not genuine, the signs that the Holy spirit produces are genuine, The signs the devil produces is like water be spilled on a rock, it splatters and doesn’t penetrate. The signs the Holy Spirit produces is like water dropping on a sponge, it is absorbed, it penetrates. In other words it penetrates to the soul, into the depth of the person’s mind. The devil can not do that. Every thing is on the outside of the soul, you become a spectator, not a participant.
 
Okay I read the first 5 words, I think it was 5 words,

The devil is always around.

Now then ,

I’m not good at names for some reason and did not or cannot remember the two names I think I am speaking to, pretty sure it was two different people

I have just joined and would like to come back and do more reading. I don’t want things to get argumentative and at the same time, have rules which are what they are.

Don’t you guy’s ever

ever quote anything I write , if I make a note.

now be off and away . ( This is stunning, building a foundation for a point with the opening sentence “The devil is always around” in a Catholic talk. I’d walk out on any atheist or theist correspondence in this.
 
You say you are Catholic and I assume you have some knowledge of Scripture, am I right? I said nothing that contradicts Scripture, as a matter of fact I quoted it, when I said the devil is always around. Scripture says “He goes around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour” I,m having trouble understanding where you are coming from. Please clarify if you can what you mean, thanks.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
When I was “baptized in the Holy Spirit” nothing remarkable happened. I did not feel faint or anything like that. I did not receive the gift of praying in tongues immediately, but I did receive that gift later (I was quite surprised actually).
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Do you pray in tongues daily, as part of your spiritual practice?
 
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