Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

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The theory of Limbo is not required for us to hope and pray.
True, but without a theory like LImbo, we fall into a mode os assuming that they will go to Heaven. That is increidbly dangerous because God mandated everyone be baptized and that only through baptism will a soul receive Heaven. The Church has an obligation to teach only what it knows, not what it does not know.
 
Besides, what of baptism of blood or desire? God is obviously not bound in his power by the sacramental economy; He can work outside of it in extraordinary ways. That is what one might hope for in this situation, recognizing that the stain of original sin weighs on us all, and that its consequences could be most dire for these otherwise innocent unborn, but that we can hope in God’s redeeming grace and superabundant love.
No doubt, God can work outside the sacramnets if He chooses to do so. However, God has NOT told us He will do that, which means we have no choice but to listen to what He has said. Baptism is an absolute, not a suggestion.
 
Sounds like the workers in the vineyard.** 👍 **

Who knows? maybe the baby goes through a few millenia of redemptive suffering in purgatory? I was thinking something like this is a possibility

Maybe 75 years of the daily grind is a mercy compared to centuries of purification?

Maybe you have to be born to be born into original sin?

Maybe this is an expression of invincible ignorance?

We don’t get to know.

We do get to know that to abort is wrong.
We know that we have to work to convert and baptise the living.
We do get to know that whatever God has in store is right and good.
Does not predestination play some sort of part in judgement process of these babies? Maybe because of original sin, those who live to the age of reason have to aim to reduce their guilt by living an upright life while they can. I don’t know.
 
As I said before the information in the secular media is biased. Read Zent or get the full 41 page decision. It only states the HOPE of Heaven. It also mentions the aborted, unbaptized (these poor children have had no chance of being baptized) pre-born.
 
It seems to me that the bottom line on this issue is, we really don’t know what happens to babies who die before being able to receive Baptism.

It’s a mystery that we won’t know the answer to, until our own salvation comes to fruition.

Jim
 
True, but without a theory like LImbo, we fall into a mode os assuming that they will go to Heaven. That is increidbly dangerous because God mandated everyone be baptized and that only through baptism will a soul receive Heaven. The Church has an obligation to teach only what it knows, not what it does not know.
What do you mean “we,” Kimosabe? There is no chance that I will assume that. I have no problem putting my hope in God, and leaving it at that. Why? Because I know that there is nothing you and I, nor theologians, can do about reality. Whether we believe in Limbo, that all unbaptized go to hell, or that everyone goes to heaven, the reality is their fate is in God’s hands.

BTW…how is such error avoided with a theory like Limbo in place, which leads people to assume that anyone good who is not baptized won’t go to hell? With Limbo, you can assure your very nice Hindu friend, that because he has led a faithful life, he will not go to hell, right?
 
What do you mean “we,” Kimosabe? There is no chance that I will assume that. I have no problem putting my hope in God, and leaving it at that. Why? Because I know that there is nothing you and I, nor theologians, can do about reality. Whether we believe in Limbo, that all unbaptized go to hell, or that everyone goes to heaven, the reality is their fate is in God’s hands.

BTW…how is such error avoided with a theory like Limbo in place, which leads people to assume that anyone good who is not baptized won’t go to hell? With Limbo, you can assure your very nice Hindu friend, that because he has led a faithful life, he will not go to hell, right?
NO!

Jesus told us we MUST be baptized, we know nothing more then that. We cannot add to Jesus’ Words just because we don’t like them. Limbo does not say a nice Hindu friend will not go to hell. You do not udnerstand Limbo.
 
It seems to me that the bottom line on this issue is, we really don’t know what happens to babies who die before being able to receive Baptism.

It’s a mystery that we won’t know the answer to, until our own salvation comes to fruition.

Jim
Exactly. Which is why any talk of getting rid of Limbo is dangerous.
 
NO!

Jesus told us we MUST be baptized, we know nothing more then that. We cannot add to Jesus’ Words just because we don’t like them. Limbo does not say a nice Hindu friend will not go to hell. You do not udnerstand Limbo.
That could very well be. Since its not official Church doctrine and never has been, I haven’t felt the need to study it.
 
So, why are you so attached to something which the Church has never defined as doctrine? Is it the only way you can have hope for unbaptized babies? 😉
Not at all. It is the only way we can make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized. If we lose that requirement, or lessen its reality, then the faith falls apart on many levels.
 
Not at all. It is the only way we can make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized. If we lose that requirement, or lessen its reality, then the faith falls apart on many levels.
How does Limbo “make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized?” It is an exception to that command, isn’t it? Christ didn’t teach it, and the earliest Church fathers didn’t teach it.
 
How does Limbo "make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized?" It is an exception to that command, isn’t it? Christ didn’t teach it, and the earliest Church fathers didn’t teach it.
He has a point here. Does anyone here feel like a hyprocite to be so “knowledgeable” about the teachings of God and the Church but hardly do anything more than pray by themselves and go once a week to Mass?
 
How does Limbo “make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized?” It is an exception to that command, isn’t it? Christ didn’t teach it, and the earliest Church fathers didn’t teach it.
An unborn infant has not commited personal sin, and does not merit hell.

An unborn infant has not been baptized, and cannot receive the fullness of the Beatific Vision in Heaven.

Since the unborn infant cannot go to hell and cannot go to the fullness of Heaven, the theory and term “Limbo” became a way to explain how God “might” handle those souls who were not baptized. It was never made a doctrine because it is not contained in any form of infallible Revelation, but it keeps the absolute command to baptize wrapped in the truth that it is.

If you study the topic of Baptism, you will find that the Church has literally always held that Baptism is an absolute requirement, not a suggestion and that original sin is an infallible truth that is washed away by Baptism…and finally, that one cannot receive the fullness of the kingdon of God in Heaven unless they have been baptized. Yet, through all ages the Church wanted to give hope to people without attacking Baptism. If the Church removes Limbo, and replaces it with nothing, then Baptism becomes meaningless and so does original sin, so does the infallibility of the Mageisterium and so does the Catholic faith. It really is an all or nothing situation.
 
He has a point here. Does anyone here feel like a hyprocite to be so “knowledgeable” about the teachings of God and the Church but hardly do anything more than pray by themselves and go once a week to Mass?
It is not a matter of being all knowledgable, it is about God telling us we MUST be baptized to be saved…He did not say Baptism was nice, or is a good thing for a party, He said it was required to be saved. The fact that God said this creates many emotional issues in our human brains because we cannot conceive of an unborn baby who is aborted NOT going to Heaven, yet God simply never said that He would do that, He did say that we MUST be baptized.

Now, can we hope that God will work outside His own sacraments? Yes, of course. Should we assume that He will? No, we should not and it is extremely dangerous to do so because it allow us to hope that everey human is saved no matter what they believe or do.
 
An unborn infant has not commited personal sin, and does not merit hell.

An unborn infant has not been baptized, and cannot receive the fullness of the Beatific Vision in Heaven.

Since the unborn infant cannot go to hell and cannot go to the fullness of Heaven, the theory and term “Limbo” became a way to explain how God “might” handle those souls who were not baptized. It was never made a doctrine because it is not contained in any form of infallible Revelation, but it keeps the absolute command to baptize wrapped in the truth that it is.

If you study the topic of Baptism, you will find that the Church has literally always held that Baptism is an absolute requirement, not a suggestion and that original sin is an infallible truth that is washed away by Baptism…and finally, that one cannot receive the fullness of the kingdon of God in Heaven unless they have been baptized. Yet, through all ages the Church wanted to give hope to people without attacking Baptism.
…as does the new document. Regardless of our hope, belief in Limbo, etcetera, God has the final say in these matters. That’s why all we have is hope. Creating a place called Limbo, doesn’t replace hope. Removing it doesn’t diminish hope.
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Tom317:
If the Church removes Limbo, and replaces it with nothing, then Baptism becomes meaningless and so does original sin, so does the infallibility of the Mageisterium and so does the Catholic faith. It really is an all or nothing situation.
That is an extraordinary leap in logic, my friend. The idea that discounting a theory which has never been considered doctrine will cause all of the above is ridiculous. It is not “an all or nothing situation.” We can continue to hope, and place our unbaptized children in God’s capable hands.
 
Now, can we hope that God will work outside His own sacraments? Yes, of course.** Should we assume that He will**? No, we should not and it is extremely dangerous to do so because it allow us to hope that everey human is saved no matter what they believe or do.
Who is telling you to assume?
 
Not at all. It is the only way we can make sense of the absolute command by Christ to be baptized. If we lose that requirement, or lessen its reality, then the faith falls apart on many levels.
AMEN to that! I’m a cradle Catholic who attended Catholic schools all my life. I was definitely taught that Limbo was a real place where unbaptised babies went when they died. I remember picturing cute little babies sitting playing in a wonderful place and being happy for all eternity, even though they could never get into heaven. The Baltimore catechism also taught this. I was never taught it wasn’t real or not doctrinal. I also had a great aunt and uncle who died as infants in the 1920’s. They died before they were baptised and had to be buried (of course in a Catholic cemetery) in a section of the cemetery for murders and criminals because they were in Limbo and would never be in heaven. I often wonder how my grandparents handled this, while grieving over the loss of their babies besides. And now we are being told these babies can get to heaven! (Which I always had a tendancy to believe anyway.) But where does that leave the Christian teaching of original sin?
 
…as does the new document. Regardless of our hope, belief in Limbo, etcetera, God has the final say in these matters. That’s why all we have is hope. Creating a place called Limbo, doesn’t replace hope. Removing it doesn’t diminish hope.
Educated Catholics who know the faith do not need Limbo because they understand the central importance of the sacrament of Baptism. However, I would guess that at least 97% of all Catholics, and Christians in general, do not know their faith very well, they just go along as they desire.

Hope is not replaced by Limbo, Limbo gives the lay Catholic the true knowledge that baptism is an absolute and that there is an eternal consequence for not being baptized–even if the person is innocent of personal sin, they still hold original sin and must have that stain removed before they can enter the Kingdom of God. While it is “possible” for God to work outside of His own sacraments, we cannot say He will because God never said He will. Instead, we must live by the rules and parameters God has given. Limbo supports Baptism as an absolute requirement, and therefore it is critical that Limbo or something like it, be retained. Notice: We have not heard yet from the Pope on this matter, and I am predicting the Pope will NOT get rid of Limbo…because he knows Baptism must be supported for Christ himself mandated it.

Here is the simple truth: If unborn babies go straight to the Beatific Vision in Heaven, then there is no getting around the simple fact that the vast majority of Catholics will assume that there is no consequence for baptizing, or not bapizing, and they will begin to postpone and cancel plans to baptize in large numbers (over time of course, not immediately). If Catholics believe (not hope–believe) that God brings every unbaptized baby into Heaven, then abortion becomes a modern sacrament of mercy, one in which a mother can say she did the very best thing for her own unborn child–she sent the child to Heaven–it is like having a rock solid gaurantee of eternity with God in Heaven and abortion would become a very holy act.

Forget any idea of Christians learning the truth, it just won’t happen and the Church has to propogate the Gospel in the real world, not in fantasyland. Protestants already think baptism is not required, that is not a required of salvation (not all, but most Protestants). Catholics will follow that same path if Limbo is actually cast aside because Catholics will come to believe that God will save people anyway (note: they will believe, not hope).

Removing Limbo is a huge watering down of a critical sacrament that will not be stopped and it might already be too late…the media already pasting false headlines all over papers, tv and the internet, the headlines often say things like “babies go straight to Heaven,” or “Limbo cast aside,” or “the Church changes doctrines again…” all of those are false and it is because the Church is dangerously playing with a theory that has helped to support Baptism and Original Sin for centuries upon centuries. Dangerous, very dangerous. And, we will hear over-and-over comments like “the Catholic Church finally gets it, baptism is not required,” or “The Catholic Church has changed doctrines again.” etc.
 
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