Catholic Church founded by Jesus?

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lanman87 said:
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ArchStanton:
I think you are missing an important ‘ ingredient ’
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You are welcome to think what you want. I am confident that Christ is in me and I am in Him.
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You have gone from thinking ‘bind/loose’ is optional to disregarding Christ’s words again in Jn 6.

Rely not on your own understanding lanman87

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart ,

on your own intelligence do not rely ;

In all your ways be mindful of him,

and he will make straight your paths .
 
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ArchStanton said:
You have gone from thinking ‘ bind/loose ’ is optional to disregarding Christ’s words again in Jn 6 .
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I’m not interested in arguing Transubstantiation.

But I am interested why you have a problem with me saying true Christianity is not a “To Do” list and is who we are instead of what we do, and we do what we do because of who we are?
 
lanman87 said:
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ArchStanton:
You have gone from thinking ‘ bind/loose ’ is optional to disregarding Christ’s words again in Jn 6 .
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I’m not interested in arguing Transubstantiation.

But I am interested why you have a problem with me saying true Christianity is not a “To Do” list and is who we are instead of what we do, and we do what we do because of who we are?
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Correct me if I am wrong to assume your argument would lead us to ‘works’?
 
Jesus didn’t give us a “to do” list although he certainly told us to follow his commandments. What he did was to leave us his Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail.
 
ArchStanton said:
Correct me if I am wrong to assume your argument would lead us to ‘ works ’?
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Not really, If Jesus has changed who we are (new creation, adopted, indwelled by the Spirit) then it follows that works of service and works of love toward others will follow.

My point is that is easy to follow a To Do list and miss the depth and joy of being a Christian.
 
lanman87 said:
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ArchStanton:
Correct me if I am wrong to assume your argument would lead us to ‘ works ’?
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Not really, If Jesus has changed who we are (new creation, adopted, indwelled by the Spirit) then it follows that works of service and works of love toward others will follow.

My point is that is easy to follow a To Do list and miss the depth and joy of being a Christian.
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Not as easy as you think…

Mt 7:13 ‘the narrow gate’

Luke 9:23 ‘deny himself and take up his cross daily’
 
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ArchStanton said:
Not as easy as you think…

Mt 7:13 ‘ the narrow gate ’

Luke 9:23 ‘deny himself and take up his cross daily ’
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If Christ is truly our “All in All” then those things move from a “To Do” list to joy in following Christ.
 
In my reply to Wannano I said “Christ being the center of our life, every aspect of our life, is what Christianity is about.” I have a hard time understanding why anyone would disagree with that statement.

I wasn’t making a statement about the Catholic church, or authority, or transubstantiation. It was a simple commentary that some people are drawn to a formulaic version of Christianity where doing things replaces a deeper and more meaningful relationship with Christ, in which Jesus becomes our everything.
 
lanman87 said:
In my reply to Wannano I said “ Christ being the center of our life, every aspect of our life, is what Christianity is about .” I have a hard time understanding why anyone would disagree with that statement.

I wasn’t making a statement about the Catholic church, or authority, or transubstantiation. It was a simple commentary that some people are drawn to a formulaic version of Christianity where doing things replaces a deeper and more meaningful relationship with Christ, in which Jesus becomes our everything.
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Understood… but you also seem to have a problem with Christ’s words ‘whatever you bind…’

Jesus becomes our ‘everything’ in the Eucharist lanman87
 
Is that all? There are 2 great commandments, no? I think perhaps there’s more to the story…
 
ArchStanton said:
Understood… but you also seem to have a problem with Christ’s words ‘ whatever you bind…’
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The Seat of Moses was to be followed, their understanding binding, when they were in truth and Spirit. Anything with leaven was not binding.

Binding and loosing is conditional, that it is in accord with heaven’s bimding and loosing…not that the tail wags the dog, but a oneness in truth and Spirit.
 
Wannano said:
If you are right, then I feel completely ripped off. I was taught my whole life that I actually had to believe with my heart and mind, and submit my will to His.
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That’s all part of what I meant by “follow and obey the Church”.
 
mcq72 said:
I don’t know. How can He allow wheat with the tares, or a saint to do the things he would not, or not do the things he should?
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Don’t confuse the sins of individuals with the infallible doctrines of the Church. Infallibility and Impeccabilty are not the same thing.
 
lanman87 said:
If someone is in a relationship with God, through Christ and Christ is the center of their life, there is no reason to bind or loose. Christ has set them free.
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In that case, why did Jesus give Peter the “keys of the kingdom of God” (Matt 16) and the power to bind and loose?
 
mcq72 said:
Binding and loosing is conditional, that it is in accord with heaven’s bimding and loosing…not that the tail wags the dog, but a oneness in truth and Spirit.
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13 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
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I see no hint of conditional nor heaven’s binding and loosing…whatever that means. I
didn’t know heaven(defined in different ways one of which is the abode of God) could do anything much less bind and loose.
 
lanman87 said:
Do you think Christ came to give us a formulaic “To Do” list or did He come to bring us into a relationship with God
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Your relationship with depends very much on what you DO.
For example, James 2:24-26 says we are justified not by faith alone but by our works, and faith without works is dead.
1John 2 says a believer who does not “keep his commandments” does not know or abides in Christ and is a “liar”.
Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
 
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