Catholic Church founded by Jesus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Glenn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If Christ is the center of your life then obedience is natural. If we are truly a follower of Christ then we are new creations and our position has changed from spiritual dead to spiritually alive. . Following Christ isn’t something we do, it is who we are
Nonsense. In Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that their SINS can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God. In Romans 6, Paul tells believers that their sins can “lead to death”.
You are not saved by faith alone, but by faith and obedience (James 2:24). Obedience is a test of your faith and your love of God.
 
Binding and loosing is conditional, that it is in accord with heaven’s bimding and loosing…not that the tail wags the dog, but a oneness in truth and Spirit.
Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles the power to bind and loose. Whatever was bound on earth was bound in Heaven.
 
Don’t confuse the sins of individuals with the infallible doctrines of the Church. Infallibility and Impeccabilty are not the same thing.
Fair enough. Yet don’t deny the intersection of the two completely. Where we sit is usually where we stand. One can go to far in thinking leaders can be unholy and still teach and expound perfect understanding every time, as if a bad tree can’t give bad fruit.
 
Last edited:
see no hint of conditional nor heaven’s binding and loosing…whatever that means.
Indeed if you take understanding of heaven’s binding away you have no conditions to binding on earth.
 
Nonsense ( that “Following Christ isn’t something we do, it is who we are” lanman87)
Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

These people were obedient on the doing, mostly.

We can not escape the most basic principle of our gospel. You must be born again. You must be made a new creation, for the old in all it’s doing, could not be made whole. This is the first obedience, the first command, to have new life, to be seated in heavenly places.

Paul says we are such. Key word is are. Any doing around this, thinking it is righteous, is vain, even an iniquity.

So yes, first be, then do.
 
Last edited:
If you don’t think they can bind “whatever”.
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 19. And I will give to thee the keys, &c. This is another metaphor, expressing the supreme power and prerogative of the prince of the apostles. The keys of a city, or of its gates, are presented or given to the person that hath the chief power. We also own a power of the keys, given to the other apostles, but with a subordination to St. Peter and to his successor, as head of the Catholic Church. — And whatsoever thou shalt bind, &c. All the apostles, and their successors, partake also of this power of binding and loosing, but with a due subordination to one head invested with the supreme power. (Witham) — Loose on earth. The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence: the power of which is here granted. (Challoner) — Although Peter and his successors are mortal, they are nevertheless endowed with heavenly power, says St. Chrysostom, nor is the sentence of life and death passed by Peter to be attempted to be reversed, but what he declares is to be considered a divine answer from heaven, and what he decrees, a decree of God himself. He that heareth you, heareth me, &c. The power of binding is exercised, 1st. by refusing to absolve; 2nd. by enjoining penance for sins forgiven; 3nd. by excommunication, suspension or interdict; 4th. by making rules and laws for the government of the Church; 5th. by determining what is of faith by the judgments and definitions of the Church. (Tirinus) — The terms binding and loosing, are equivalent to opening and shutting, because formerly the Jews opened the fastenings of their doors by untying it, and they shut or secured their doors by tying or binding it. (Bible de Vence) — Dr. Whitby, a learned Protestant divine, thus expounds this and the preceding verse: “As a suitable return to thy confession, I say also to thee, that thou art by name Peter, i.e. a rock; and upon thee, who art this rock, I will build my Church, and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, the power of making laws to govern my Church. " (Tom. i, p. 143.) Dr. Hammond, another Protestant divine, explains it in the same manner. And p. 92, he says: " What is here meant by the keys, is best understand by Isaias xxii. 22, where they signify ruling the whole family or house of the king: and this being by Christ accommodated to the Church, denotes the power of governing it.”
 
All the apostles, and their successors, partake also of this power of binding and loosing, but with a due subordination to one head invested with the supreme power
Perfect…we can not bind or loose save that which is already in alignment with the Head of the Church.

Paul says he is a slave to Christ. Any binding loosing he did was according, conditioned by, His Master.
 
Last edited:
Perfect…we can not bind or loose save that which is already in alignment with the Head of the Church.

Paul says he is a slave to Christ. Any binding loosing he did was according, conditioned by, His Master.
You as an individual cannot bind or loose anything. That power was not given to you or me. It was given to Peter and the Apostles and their successors within the only Church established by God.
 
You as an individual cannot bind or loose anything. That power was not given to you or me. It was given to Peter and the Apostles and their successors within the only Church established by God.
Peter and the apostles, as office holders, were slaves to Christ. As such, binding loosing was conditional upon oness with the Master.

Pretty sure this does not contradict any CC teaching.
 
Last edited:
Peter and the apostles, as office holders, were slaves to Christ. As such, binding loosing was conditional upon oness with the Master.
They were not slaves. They were willing servants. A big difference.
 
When one makes Christ the center of ones life, obedience isn’t optional .
Agreed. But who does the heavy lifting? You or the Holy Spirit?

The Eucharist is spiritual food, no? Food provides energy for our bodies. What’s the energy for?
 
Agree with everything you’ve said. But the Eucharist isn’t all about us and our relationship with God. Indeed our faith is cruciform, no? Our relationship with God is only part of the equation. What’s the other part?
 
In that case, why did Jesus give Peter the “keys of the kingdom of God” (Matt 16) and the power to bind and loose?
What I’m saying is that if Christ is truly the center of someones life then they are seeking first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. There is no need to discipline someone who loves God and loves others.
 
Obedience is a test of your faith and your love of God.
And if you have a true living faith then obedience and striving for righteousness flows from that faith. God changes who we are, and we, by faith, live for Him.
 
Understood… but you also seem to have a problem with Christ’s wordswhatever you bind…’

Jesus becomes our ‘everything’ in the Eucharist lanman87
Church authority and the Eucharist wasn’t the topic of my reply. But that seems to be what some people want to make every conversation with non-Catholic Christians about.
 
Peter and the apostles, as office holders, were slaves to Christ.
slaves -NO!!!
John 15:15 "I will not now call you servants: for the servant knoweth not what his lord doth. But I have called you friends: because all things whatsoever I have heard of my Father, I have made known to you. "
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top