Catholic Church founded by Jesus?

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ArchStanton said:
Augustine

That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ , That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ** ( Sermons 227 [ A.D. 411 ]).
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“For when what is said figuratively is taken as if it were said literally, it is understood in a carnal manner.”

Chrustian Doctrine, book3, ch 5…Augustine

 
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Which as he has said is Christ.
Julius_Caesar said:
Eat Christ, then; though eaten He yet lives, for when slain He rose from the dead. Nor do we divide Him into parts when we eat Him: though indeed this is done in the Sacrament, as the faithful well know when they eat the Flesh of Christ
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Don’t cherry pick Augustine.
 
Christ bore Himself in His hands, when He offered His body saying: “this is my body.” {Enarr. in Ps. 33 Sermo 1, 10; on p.377}

Also from Augustine.
 
Your reply here is meaningful to me. You are saying what I was saying earlier but I feel some never understood. At least, I think you are saying that a total change of heart is what is required not just keeping the rules of the Church.

Please clarify something for me. I have come to understand that if I was baptized as a baby I was made a Catholic and regardless of what I do or even if I join another church I am still and always will be a Catholic. Yet you have made reference to what it means to “be” a Catholic, “if” one is Catholic, and “true” Catholics." Are there Catholics who are not really Catholics even though they always will forever be Catholics?
 
mcq72 said:
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ArchStanton:
Augustine
That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ , That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ** ( Sermons 227 [ A.D. 411 ]).
Click to expand...
“For when what is said figuratively is taken as if it were said literally, it is understood in a carnal manner.”

Chrustian Doctrine, book3, ch 5…Augustine
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Augustine

Sermons 234, 2 (ca. AD 400):

The Lord Jesus wanted those whose eyes were held lest they should recognize Him, to recognize Him in the breaking of the bread. The faithful know what I am saying. They know Christ in the breaking of the bread. For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, becomes Christ’s body.
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Julius_Caesar said:
Also from Augustine.
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Yes. No one denies this is His body, Christ says so. Pretty much every early father cites this, repeats this. Question is then how is it His body. How is He present in the elements? Is it late comer transubstantiation., which Augustine gives no allusion to, saying the letter (explanation) can kill the spirit? Or is it done better by orthodox , who give no explanation other than it is? Is it Calvin, a real presence but quite figuratively. Or Zwingli figuratively. I do not think any early church father says it is not figurative eating.

I am of opinion that some may have believed in real presence like orthodox and some like Calvin and Zwingli. I also think none believed in transubstantiation, until much later.
 
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ArchStanton said:
For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, becomes Christ’s body.
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Again, not contrary to Calvin or Zwingli. Every time I eat a cracker, or a piece off of an Italian loaf I am not eucharisting (though I still might give thanks). The communion service/ consecration makes the difference.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
Don’t cherry pick Augustine.
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Likewise.

Again, text is no different than " this is my body" which is in scripture., which we do not deny or cherry pick elsewhere in writ, so no reason to deny/cherry pick any father writing.
 
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mcq72 said:
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ArchStanton:
For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, becomes Christ’s body.
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Again, not contrary to Calvin or Zwingli. Every time I eat a cracker, or a piece off of an Italian loaf I am not eucharisting (though I still might give thanks). The communion service/ consecration makes the difference.
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Does the communion service/consecration work “magic” on the elements or is it calling to attention that we are not just having a snack but that this is a God given designated framework for the purpose of declaring and remembering his work on the cross?

I can’t figure out in the early church how people were getting drunk and having supper by consuming the Eucharist? Where was the Priest in that setting? Would he not be in control of those behaviors?
 
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mcq72 said:
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ArchStanton:
For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, becomes Christ’s body.
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Again, not contrary to Calvin or Zwingli. Every time I eat a cracker, or a piece off of an Italian loaf I am not eucharisting (though I still might give thanks). The communion service/ consecration makes the difference.
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bold above ^^^
 
You did clarify what makes a person a “true” Catholic so I take it that there are “untrue” or not real Catholics.
 
Wannano said:
You did clarify what makes a person a “true” Catholic so I take it that there are “untrue” or not real Catholics.
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Those that ‘pick and choose’ [buffet], as opposed to obedience [banquet]
 
Are those that “pick and choose” still Catholics or are they actually “Protesting” ants?
 
Wannano said:
You did clarify what makes a person a “true” Catholic so I take it that there are “untrue” or not real Catholics.
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There are two types of Catholic - those in a state of grace and those in a state of mortal sin.
 
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