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MikeWM
Guest
Indeed so
Hence why being absolutist about just the law of abortion, taking nothing else into consideration, shouldn’t be the way to vote.Mike
Catholic Clergy and Their Puzzling Support for Liberal Parties and Candidates
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Hence why being absolutist about just the law of abortion, taking nothing else into consideration, shouldn’t be the way to vote.Mike
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Richardols
Guest
If Roe v Wade gets overturned, then it goes to the states. Certainly a good number of states will legalize abortion, and that’ll be done by their legislatures, just as the conservatives want. Then what? It’s states’ decisions, it’s legal, and legislated.Indeed so
Mike
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st.jerome
Guest
I like what you say, but I’d have to qualify that statement.
Republicans want to cut taxes–that, you might say, is their highest, most lofty goal. Every other issue finds its place after this first requirement is met. So, while we might all want the same things, Republicans first want to keep their money to themselves. No longer does the govt. have the money to safeguard these issues, we must now trust the affluent to make the right choices.
The Democrat way is simple: we furnish the money and the govt. furnishes the programs.
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David_Paul
Guest
The “Social Welfare” of LBJ’s Great Society destroyed the black family.
The Federal Government is not capable of running effecient, effective long term charity.
Even short term diasters turn into fiascos. I was in the eye of two hurricanes last summer. Had a couple grand in damage. Didn’t run to FEMA. But those down in Boca Raton, Del Ray Beach and Ft. Lauderdale who didn’t even have hurricane winds milked FEMA for millions (hope they all go to prison for it but I bet nobody will).
Forced charity isn’t charity anyways. Especially when it supports a bloated unionized government work force. Those workers, not the needy are the ones who really benefit from government handouts. Any private charity with the overhead of government charity would find few willing to donate to it.
Ask yourself this: If you had ten grand to give to charity, would you give the money to HUD and HSS or to a religious or other private charity?
We need some government charity of course. But the larger it gets (and it will get larger as the government unions want more business for their members) the less money there is for families to help themselves and help others.
The Federal Government is not capable of running effecient, effective long term charity.
Even short term diasters turn into fiascos. I was in the eye of two hurricanes last summer. Had a couple grand in damage. Didn’t run to FEMA. But those down in Boca Raton, Del Ray Beach and Ft. Lauderdale who didn’t even have hurricane winds milked FEMA for millions (hope they all go to prison for it but I bet nobody will).
Forced charity isn’t charity anyways. Especially when it supports a bloated unionized government work force. Those workers, not the needy are the ones who really benefit from government handouts. Any private charity with the overhead of government charity would find few willing to donate to it.
Ask yourself this: If you had ten grand to give to charity, would you give the money to HUD and HSS or to a religious or other private charity?
We need some government charity of course. But the larger it gets (and it will get larger as the government unions want more business for their members) the less money there is for families to help themselves and help others.
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David_Paul
Guest
No they won’t. Not a good number. No need for it. There are only 6 or so states with laws on the books which, if enforced, would ban abortion.
Many on the left assume that everything must always be a matter of legislation. The default position is always to seek judges or legislatures to make law.
Even when it isn’t needed to protect what the left holds dear. As would be in the case of Roe being overturned.
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barnestormer
Guest
The Church does not teach that the State is the answer to society’s ills. In fact, the Church does teach that the government NOT be a recourse for these problems. The principle of subsidiarity (which, by the way, the Catholic Church does teach) insists that those closest to a problem are the ones who should deal with it, that local and community organizations must address ills. When my neighbor’s house is on fire I don’t call my congressman or my governor, I look to my community-funded, staffed, and managed fire dept. Yet when people see poverty in their community they scream and cry that the State needs to take $$ away from someone else and give it to the needy person. Have all these programs eliminated poverty?? No. Yet we fail to learn from history.
Moreover, when Christ asked us to feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc., He did not tell us to do so by taking money away from one person by the threat of force (i.e., taxation) and routing it through a bureacracy that eats up 1/3 of it, then redistributing it to the poor. He commanded CHARITY, and extorting money out of someone is not charity. It doesn’t matter what you or I think is “fair” for that person to pay based on their means. (Bill Gates has as much right the billions of $ in his portfolio as I do to the $10 in my wallet.) Christ asked us to give, and a proper understanding of Catholic theology tells us that we must give freely for it to be true charity. Only then does the conversion and softening of hearts take place. If I give $ to the poor because I was threatened with imprisonment, am I being charitable?? Hardly. If I freely choose to give help to those of various needs, then—and only then—I am being charitable.
Even if GOP and Dem were both pro-life parties I wouldn’t vote Dem because it is a party of statism and socialism—neither of which are Catholic ideals.
Moreover, when Christ asked us to feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc., He did not tell us to do so by taking money away from one person by the threat of force (i.e., taxation) and routing it through a bureacracy that eats up 1/3 of it, then redistributing it to the poor. He commanded CHARITY, and extorting money out of someone is not charity. It doesn’t matter what you or I think is “fair” for that person to pay based on their means. (Bill Gates has as much right the billions of $ in his portfolio as I do to the $10 in my wallet.) Christ asked us to give, and a proper understanding of Catholic theology tells us that we must give freely for it to be true charity. Only then does the conversion and softening of hearts take place. If I give $ to the poor because I was threatened with imprisonment, am I being charitable?? Hardly. If I freely choose to give help to those of various needs, then—and only then—I am being charitable.
Even if GOP and Dem were both pro-life parties I wouldn’t vote Dem because it is a party of statism and socialism—neither of which are Catholic ideals.
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estesbob
Guest
Agreed-unfortunatley the Democratic Party defines compassion by how of your money they can take to give to the poor and still take enough credit for it to get their votes.
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manualman
Guest
Call me cynical, but I don’t believe for a moment that most democratic politicians want an end to poverty in America. Dem VOTERS, maybe. But the politicians have insisted upon courses of action that tend to PERPETUATE poverty. A handy side effect is that this perpetuates a nice, solid voting block for them.
Why would dems consistently oppose efforts to make it financially possible for poor families to send their kids to good private schools instead of failed local public schools? Surely a voucher amount that properly accounts for the disproportionate percentage of special needs kids could be found? If a school gets $5,000 per student in funding on average, how could it not BENEFIT the public schools to offer a $2,000 per student voucher to be used at a school of the parents choice? But no. Always opposed at any value.
Why is welfare set up such that poor people would get LESS money if they took on an entry level minimum wage job? Would it be so hard to stagger the payment based on income? Over time, I have to believe many would get promoted, learn new skills, etc…
How is racism combated in colleges when Jesse Jackson’s son will be admitted to a prestigious university over an equally qualified poor coal miners daughter that happens to be white? What exactly is affirmative about this situation? Why would Jesse’s son need help? Wouldn’t it be just as easy to base affirmative aid on economic background and leave race to be a tie-breaker?
These issues and more leave me wondering whether Democratic politicians don’t benefit more from KEEPING the status quo than fixing these problems.
Why would dems consistently oppose efforts to make it financially possible for poor families to send their kids to good private schools instead of failed local public schools? Surely a voucher amount that properly accounts for the disproportionate percentage of special needs kids could be found? If a school gets $5,000 per student in funding on average, how could it not BENEFIT the public schools to offer a $2,000 per student voucher to be used at a school of the parents choice? But no. Always opposed at any value.
Why is welfare set up such that poor people would get LESS money if they took on an entry level minimum wage job? Would it be so hard to stagger the payment based on income? Over time, I have to believe many would get promoted, learn new skills, etc…
How is racism combated in colleges when Jesse Jackson’s son will be admitted to a prestigious university over an equally qualified poor coal miners daughter that happens to be white? What exactly is affirmative about this situation? Why would Jesse’s son need help? Wouldn’t it be just as easy to base affirmative aid on economic background and leave race to be a tie-breaker?
These issues and more leave me wondering whether Democratic politicians don’t benefit more from KEEPING the status quo than fixing these problems.
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Richardols
Guest
Yes, but, given the work of pro-lifers, more states would ban it, IMO. There will always be those that will have abortion.
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barnestormer
Guest
Probably true. Abortion, like all other sins, will likely be with us until the end of time. It’s a pipedream to think we can eliminate sin from the human condition. Same goes for poverty I suppose.
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David_Paul
Guest
Excellent post! Catholicism and Protestantism are in complete agreement with the vision of the founders and framers. Protestants speak of Federalism and State’s Rights, Catholics speak of the principle of subsidiarity.
I don’t believe this shared belief is an accident. It was formed by the Christian faith.
No accident either that history has show those who do seek to centralize power are often hostile to faith.
A Baptist Democrat in Punta Gorda, Florida and a Catholic Democrat in Orange, Connecticut vote to send a Democrat to Washington to tax them (and everyone else), bring the money to DC, give it to some agency which gives it to a branch of that agency, which, after endless studies, determines a group of Intuits in Nome, Alaska need some help.
That is charity?
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estesbob
Guest
True-BUT our Country surrendered most of its moral authority when 9 judges decreed a woman had a 9 mont window in which to kill their chikd. Tthe mere fact the Abortion would no longer held to be a fundamental right would do wonders for restoring morality in this country.
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Catholic29
Guest
However you figure it, for me the Democrats on a whole stand much less for life than Republicans do. Even if one could prove the Iraq war was unjustified in the eyes of the Church.Not puzzling to me at all…actually its good they are finally getting on message. The Church herself has said as long as one isnt supporting Democrats SOLEY for their stance on being pro choice it is fine to support them.
And in light of that…its quite clear that Democrats stand for MUCH more Christ centered politics and issues than Republicans do on their one lip service cause to Christ regarding abortion while every other policy is choking this nations economy and pushing their own version of a culture of death in the Iraq war.
Go Catholic Clergy!
Do the math…
All estimated Iraq war deaths, military and civilian, since March 2003: **28,752 **source
All legal Abortion deaths in US since January 1973: **46,192,597 **source
While it is true that neither party represents Christ on earth, I as a Catholic who tries his best to be faithful to the Church and its Magisterium, must choose between what I am able to discern as the lesser of two evils.
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MikeWM
Guest
The difference of course is that there are all manner of things we can do to prevent abortion without involving the state, through education, teaching and support of those who may consider abortion. It’s a bonus if the state will provide support to the mother who goes through with the pregnancy, too.
Capital punishment and war are done directly by the state, and voting is the only way we can change policies in these areas that we don’t like.
Hence in the very difficult decision of whom to vote for, it seems to be that just doing things based on numbers in unsatisfactory. I would possibly prefer to vote for someone that will be ‘pro-life’ in areas the state directly controls, even if they are ‘pro-choice’ on abortion. It’s our role to help women not to choose the abortion route - all the state can do is make it illegal, which will stop some abortions but far from preventing all.
Mike
Capital punishment and war are done directly by the state, and voting is the only way we can change policies in these areas that we don’t like.
Hence in the very difficult decision of whom to vote for, it seems to be that just doing things based on numbers in unsatisfactory. I would possibly prefer to vote for someone that will be ‘pro-life’ in areas the state directly controls, even if they are ‘pro-choice’ on abortion. It’s our role to help women not to choose the abortion route - all the state can do is make it illegal, which will stop some abortions but far from preventing all.
Mike
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ShroudMan
Guest
Yep… just another in a LONG list of twisted republican pro corporate to the point of choking the people especially the poor…I find nothing biblical about republicans… Jesus spoke more of treating the poor humanly than he did about murder and homosexuality…the only two items the radical right wingers pay lip service to when they mention God and try to confuse the Christians
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barnestormer
Guest
On the other hand it’s WAY too easy to declare bankruptcy and escape responsibility for one’s financial actions in America. It’s about darn time the government tightens these laws, because you and I end up paying for people’s reckless lifestyles when they spend and spend and spend and then say “hey, I can just declare bankruptcy.” (Medical bankruptcy is an entirely different issue.)
As for your other polemical spouting, it isn’t worth taking the time to refute. I think people in this forum who are well-grounded in the Faith will see right through your clear misunderstanding of Christian theology.
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Lurch104
Guest
Choking the economy?!? What planet are you living on? The market is up, unemployment is hovering around 5% which is considered “full employment” by economists (due to people changing jobs). All indicators suggest that this economy is rocking!every other policy is choking this nations economy and pushing their own version of a culture of death in the Iraq war.
Go Catholic Clergy!
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Brad
Guest
The Democrats are THE party of death. There is no comparison to their outright and brutal support for wrecking the family and supporting, funding and promoting killing inconvenient life.Not puzzling to me at all…actually its good they are finally getting on message. The Church herself has said as long as one isnt supporting Democrats SOLEY for their stance on being pro choice it is fine to support them.
And in light of that…its quite clear that Democrats stand for MUCH more Christ centered politics and issues than Republicans do on their one lip service cause to Christ regarding abortion while every other policy is choking this nations economy and pushing their own version of a culture of death in the Iraq war.
Go Catholic Clergy!
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Brad
Guest
Isn’t that dandy? Now we can all sleep well knowing the blood is not on our hands - or is it?
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Brad
Guest
It’s all a sham. We give you stuff. You vote for us. Go kill your young and wreck your lives. Just vote for us.Social welfare for the poor…very Catholic…
Long-standing proponents of preserving the environment and natural resources…
Political watchdogs carrying on the ideals of the Civil Rights Movement…Catholic…
The party of Affordable Health Care and Retirement Security.
And so, its better to be a Democrat for all the right reasons than a Republican for all the wrong ones.
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