Catholic League anounces boycott of "Golden Compass"

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estesbob said:
As I have said before I refuse to beleive anything i read in the press or in these forums about the suitability of movies or books. Having seen the nonsense posted about the Potter series i know they can not be trusted.
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If we get shocked about small things like Harry Potter then people will take us less serious when we have a real reason to get upset.

I tried to check the Pullman books out of the library but they were already checked out. I am not going to purchase these books, therefore putting money in this man’s pocket but I do intend to read them.
 
Exordium said:
Oh, please. Why are we getting so worked up about all this? Is your faith in your faith so weak that a kids’ book will forever shatter its moorings within your child’s soul? I don’t know about you, but I sincerely hope that my son applies a reasonably degree of critical thought to *anything *I tell him, comes to his own conclusions about this world and the one beyond, including his religion. To do otherwise is to shackle his intellect, atrophy his critical faculties before they’ve even begun to develop. My son will watch this film should he choose to do so (in actual fact, he’s more interested in dinosaurs than high fantasy, but no matter). Should he also choose to read the books, he can do that too. Honestly, the overreaction I’m seeing from some of my fellow Christians is beyond belief
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I tend to be a parent who restricts very little of what my children watch or read. But I do put brakes on things that are too mature or that they aren’t ready to view.

I love Family Guy, but I certainly wouldn’t let my nine year old watch the series. My 14 year old, though is allowed to watch this show. We discuss what is appropriate and what isn’t on the show.

I protect the innocence and help grow the faith of my youngest children until they are ready to be challanged.
Let me ask you this: what is it exactly that you’re scared of? It won’t shatter his faith. It won’t turn him atheist overnight (if you think it will, I’d seriously question your confidence in the strength of your faith - one which could be so easily rendered impotent is one I don’t recognize as the one I hold in my heart and my soul).
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Yes, that is what I am afraid of. You are correct, having your faith destroyed is something that happens slowly as tiny seeds are planted in your heart. The stories that we are exposed to as children become part of us and help develop our future mindset. That is the power of books and literature.
And if it merely encourages him to ask questions about the universe around him, well, all the better.
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I have four kids who constantly ask questions about the world around them. They question the whys of everything. They don’t need to be exposed to Pullman to do this. 😛
 
deb1 said:
If we get shocked about small things like Harry Potter then people will take us less serious when we have a real reason to get upset.

I tried to check the Pullman books out of the library but they were already checked out. I am not going to purchase these books, therefore putting money in this man’s pocket but I do intend to read them.
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But this is what I mean. I would classify Golden Compass as being one of the “small things” we shouldn’t be getting upset about.
 
Exordium said:
But this is what I mean. I would classify Golden Compass as being one of the “small things” we shouldn’t be getting upset about.
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Due to the questionable content of these books, you should read them before your children do. That is what Hubby and I did with Harry Potter and we loved the series.

If what critics are saying about Pullman’s work is true then this is not a small thing. Having daemons(pronounced demons) as embodiements of your soul, killing off God, making Lucifer then good guy…these are not things that I want in the mindset of that age group.

If this was geared toward older children then, for me, there wouldn’t be a problem beyond warning people that they are anti-religious.

I can’t find this series in my library because they are popular right now. I did pick up a book containing all three novels and thumbed through it while at Walmart. Due to the fact that everyone claims this is a well written novel, I had high expectations of Pullman’s writing skills. I was shocked. His sentences were very, very long, so much that if you read this outloud to your child you might need an oxygen tank to make it all the way through a sentence. And the writing didn’t seem any better then Rowlings’. Worse, Pullman didn’t seem as engaging as her. But again, that was me just thumbing through the book. I will read it myself to see how it is.
 
Greetings. Nice to be back.

I’ve just read all three of Pullman’s *His Dark Materials (*borrowed copies, rather more from the rationale of budget than of boycott). They’re very well-written and very entertaining. They show humanity quite accurately in its good and bad extremes. I suspect many older children will read them with enjoyment. They’re page-turners and might well become the post-‘Harry Potter’ reading obsession now that Rowland has finished with her similarly stellar achievement in fantasy writing.

That said, HDM are very dangerous.

Harry Potter is just fantasy. It’s sort of ‘apatheistic’ if you will. God doesn’t much factor into it; He’s sort of irrelevant. Rather like boddhisatva buddhism, perhaps. It’s better to be good, but you don’t need God to be good; atheists often do good things. In practical, everyday terms that’s true enough (not philosophically, of course).

The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings are allegorical. CON is explicitly Christian allegory. LOR isn’t, as JRR Tolkein said (in that sense, it’s more like Harry Potter). Anglican Lewis (back when Anglicanism as such was recognisably Christian with real potential for reunion with Rome before the Great Anglican Apostacy commenced in the 1960s, or 1530s, if you prefer) and Catholic Tolkein wrote their series as Christians, and if not for Christians, then certainly not against them either.

But Pullman is an atheist and his HDM books are about deicide. The God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, what he calls ‘The Authority’, is a blasphemous caricature of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob; Jesus Christ; and yes, also Mohammed, peace be to them all. Interestingly, Pullman never names ‘Allah’ amongst his so-called deity’s many names. I wonder why that is? It’s just Arabic for God. Arabic Christians call God ‘Allah’. Surely he doesn’t think that his omission of citing Allah as the enemy of human potential wouldn’t enrage Islamists?

By all means, if you’re a well-catechised adult Catholic in a state of grace and you’d like to see what all the hoopla is about, read them! But don’t let your children read them, apart from older ones who are also properly catechised and only then as an exercise in apologetics under strict supervision!

HDM is anti-Christian and anti-God. Dan Brown went after the Opus Dei with his lies. Pullman attacks the Magisterium (by name). The problem with HDM is that in an increasingly godless culture of death, with nihilism and anarchism in general abounding, many modern politically-correct unchurched people (ie most British) will have a hard time resisting the temptation to buy into Pullman’s main thesis: in the end, there’s nothing but various elementary particles, certainly no eternal persons: divine, human, angelic, ‘Gallivespian’, etc., etc.

But Dan Brown isn’t targeting kids. Pullman is.

And as far as seeing the film? Well, I probably will. When it comes out on DVD and I can hire it from the library.
 
I have only had the opportunity to read some of this thread, but I have to say I am a little disturbed. To those of you saying not to worry that the books and movie are just fiction, listen to what the author himself has to say. This has been posted on an earlier thread about this series. He has plainly announced that he wanted to be the anti-C.S.Lewis, that his goal was to kill God and make our children “good little atheists”.

His words. No need to try to parse intentions from his works - he stated his goal. And it is quite an evil and insidious approach. Start off gently, nothing too harsh - just some subliminal concepts at the beginning. By the end of the series it is full-on anti Christian kool aid. If you have no problem with letting children be exposed to this you: A) Are overconfident in the ability of young minds to deal with this venom B) Feel overly confident in your ability to innoculate them against such concepts C) Don’t have children of your own and therefore don’t care about exposure to this filth D) Are an atheist and relish the conversion of young impressionable minds to your Godless ways.

🤷
 
QuicumqueVult said:
Greetings. Nice to be back.

I’ve just read all three of Pullman’s *His Dark Materials (*borrowed copies, rather more from the rationale of budget than of boycott). They’re very well-written and very entertaining. They show humanity quite accurately in its good and bad extremes. I suspect many older children will read them with enjoyment. They’re page-turners and might well become the post-‘Harry Potter’ reading obsession now that Rowland has finished with her similarly stellar achievement in fantasy writing.

That said, HDM are very dangerous.

Harry Potter is just fantasy. It’s sort of ‘apatheistic’ if you will. God doesn’t much factor into it; He’s sort of irrelevant. Rather like boddhisatva buddhism, perhaps. It’s better to be good, but you don’t need God to be good; atheists often do good things. In practical, everyday terms that’s true enough (not philosophically, of course).

The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings are allegorical. CON is explicitly Christian allegory. LOR isn’t, as JRR Tolkein said (in that sense, it’s more like Harry Potter). Anglican Lewis (back when Anglicanism as such was recognisably Christian with real potential for reunion with Rome before the Great Anglican Apostacy commenced in the 1960s, or 1530s, if you prefer) and Catholic Tolkein wrote their series as Christians, and if not for Christians, then certainly not against them either.

But Pullman is an atheist and his HDM books are about deicide. The God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, what he calls ‘The Authority’, is a blasphemous caricature of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob; Jesus Christ; and yes, also Mohammed, peace be to them all. Interestingly, Pullman never names ‘Allah’ amongst his so-called deity’s many names. I wonder why that is? It’s just Arabic for God. Arabic Christians call God ‘Allah’. Surely he doesn’t think that his omission of citing Allah as the enemy of human potential wouldn’t enrage Islamists?

By all means, if you’re a well-catechised adult Catholic in a state of grace and you’d like to see what all the hoopla is about, read them! But don’t let your children read them, apart from older ones who are also properly catechised and only then as an exercise in apologetics under strict supervision!

HDM is anti-Christian and anti-God. Dan Brown went after the Opus Dei with his lies. Pullman attacks the Magisterium (by name). The problem with HDM is that in an increasingly godless culture of death, with nihilism and anarchism in general abounding, many modern politically-correct unchurched people (ie most British) will have a hard time resisting the temptation to buy into Pullman’s main thesis: in the end, there’s nothing but various elementary particles, certainly no eternal persons: divine, human, angelic, ‘Gallivespian’, etc., etc.

But Dan Brown isn’t targeting kids. Pullman is.

And as far as seeing the film? Well, I probably will. When it comes out on DVD and I can hire it from the library.
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I pretty much agree with all of that.
 
The boycott will unfortunately give The Golden Compass more attention than it deserves. But I still think it’s a good idea.
 
I read these books some years ago, and remembered that at the time I found them extremely anti-organized religion. I couldn’t recall much of the story (sorry, but I have memory issues), so I started reading the books again. Now at the time I got these books…from the initial “goodie incentive” joining a book club…I did not think of them as children’s books. I am surprised to learn that they are geared to children 8 and up.

That being said…Yes, these books are anti-God. Enough people here have said this. I have not read the entire thread here, but I’ve been following it pretty much off and on since it began, and I haven’t noticed anyone getting upset about the murders, kidnappings, betrayals to say nothing of adultery. This is in the first third of the first book.

I do not think young children should be reading these at all. Older kids, maybe…with parental supervision. I’m not for banning books, but I am for overseeing our children’s reading habits. Face it, if a child wants to read it badly enough, he will. He can hide a book borrowed from a friend and read it behind his parent’s back. And to say “not my child” is naive. It’s better to read a book like this with your child so you can explain and teach. And comfort. I would think a young child could have nightmares from the awful things that happen to children in this, the first book…to say nothing of what is coming. :eek:

And for the record…I love Harry Potter. But those, too, I think are “age appropriate” books. The reader should be at least near the age of the characters in the books when reading them.
 
For those who say it is only fiction so has no effect, remember Uncle Tom’s cabin was a major factor in promoting a long and deadly war. It was only fiction too.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
For those who say it is only fiction so has no effect, remember Uncle Tom’s cabin was a major factor in promoting a long and deadly war. It was only fiction too.
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It was a major factor in ending the despicable treatment of 4.5 milllion people. Would we have more books like this.
 
Baptista said:
I read these books some years ago, and remembered that at the time I found them extremely anti-organized religion. I couldn’t recall much of the story (sorry, but I have memory issues), so I started reading the books again. Now at the time I got these books…from the initial “goodie incentive” joining a book club…I did not think of them as children’s books. I am surprised to learn that they are geared to children 8 and up.

That being said…Yes, these books are anti-God. Enough people here have said this. I have not read the entire thread here, but I’ve been following it pretty much off and on since it began, and I haven’t noticed anyone getting upset about the murders, kidnappings, betrayals to say nothing of adultery. This is in the first third of the first book.

I do not think young children should be reading these at all. Older kids, maybe…with parental supervision. I’m not for banning books, but I am for overseeing our children’s reading habits. Face it, if a child wants to read it badly enough, he will. He can hide a book borrowed from a friend and read it behind his parent’s back. And to say “not my child” is naive. It’s better to read a book like this with your child so you can explain and teach. And comfort. I would think a young child could have nightmares from the awful things that happen to children in this, the first book…to say nothing of what is coming. :eek:

And for the record…I love Harry Potter. But those, too, I think are “age appropriate” books. The reader should be at least near the age of the characters in the books when reading them.
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Parental Supervision, that is the key. So much in todays society is set against us acting like parents. Some kids can handle Harry Potter, some can not. Some kids may be of age and maturity to handle Golden Compus, others not. Personaly, I feel better safe than sorry. If you nare not sure if they can handle it, do not expose them to it.
However, as adults we must decide if it is moraly right to spend money (in todays society that is the same as support) on something that advocates such imoral activities.
Peace
 
The movie appears to be a fairy tale to me.

Let’s not forget, the Disney fairy tales never originally ended in happily ever after! 😛
 
** As someone who works in the movie theatre industry I can tell you that if it doesn’t make any money, then the film is done.

This movie has a budget of $150 million dollars! If barely any of that is made back, then this thing is dead in the water. If it has an opening of less than $20 million. Forget it. You will never see a sequel.

**
 
Here’s how people who don’t overreact described it:

Based the first novel in Phillip Pullman’s His Dark Materials trilogy, The Golden Compass is an exciting fantasy adventure set in an alternate world where people’s souls manifest themselves as animals, talking bears fight wars, and Gyptians and witches co-exist. At the center of the story is Lyra (played by newcomer Dakota Blue Richards), a 12-year-old girl who starts out trying to rescue a friend who’s been kidnapped by a mysterious organization known as the Gobblers - and winds up on an epic quest to save not only her world, but ours as well.

Ooh, could it actually be a fiction story? A fairy tale? Something that one does not take seriously? :eek: That’s how children are going to see it. The only other way they’re going to see the opposite is up to the parents. I’ve had my share of my mom telling me not to wear white because it attracts stains, to not watch some movie or tv show because it’s stupid (I’m 21 years old and she’s still telling me these things).
I’d much rather have a child to have the ability to be skilled in criticism and form opinions of his/her own. How else are movie critics made? 😛 Or even book critics.
 
infabilly said:
Here’s how people who don’t overreact described it:

Based the first novel in Phillip Pullman’s His Dark Materials trilogy, The Golden Compass is an exciting fantasy adventure set in an alternate world where people’s souls manifest themselves as animals, talking bears fight wars, and Gyptians and witches co-exist. At the center of the story is Lyra (played by newcomer Dakota Blue Richards), a 12-year-old girl who starts out trying to rescue a friend who’s been kidnapped by a mysterious organization known as the Gobblers - and winds up on an epic quest to save not only her world, but ours as well.

Ooh, could it actually be a fiction story? A fairy tale? Something that one does not take seriously? :eek: That’s how children are going to see it. The only other way they’re going to see the opposite is up to the parents. I’ve had my share of my mom telling me not to wear white because it attracts stains, to not watch some movie or tv show because it’s stupid (I’m 21 years old and she’s still telling me these things).
I’d much rather have a child to have the ability to be skilled in criticism and form opinions of his/her own. How else are movie critics made? 😛 Or even book critics.
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Children grow in their ability to discern fiction from fact as they mature. Until that point we, as parents, have to protect them and guide their development.

Fiction is a powerful tool for propaganda and I am surprised that people don’t understand this. Do you realize that one of the reasons that we see the poorhouses or debtors jails of the Victorian age as being bad is because of fiction writers like Dickens?

Fiction is much more powerful then nonfiction because it is entertaining, so we relax our mind as we read. We aren’t on guard against negative influences, especially if the writer is talented.

As adults-or older teens-we can read the background of a writer and discern his views and understand how those views are incoporated into his/her book. Children take everything at face value. That is why we need to protect them and their faith.
 
deb1 said:
Children grow in their ability to discern fiction from fact as they mature. Until that point we, as parents, have to protect them and guide their development.

Fiction is a powerful tool for propaganda and I am surprised that people don’t understand this. Do you realize that one of the reasons that we see the poorhouses or debtors jails of the Victorian age as being bad is because of fiction writers like Dickens?

Fiction is much more powerful then nonfiction because it is entertaining, so we relax our mind as we read. We aren’t on guard against negative influences, especially if the writer is talented.

As adults-or older teens-we can read the background of a writer and discern his views and understand how those views are incoporated into his/her book. Children take everything at face value. That is why we need to protect them and their faith.
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Yes, fiction is very influential and many people do seem to dismiss anything fictional far too casually. There is another thread on that topic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=194791

There is also a difference between BANNING a book or movie and BOYCOTTING it. Banning would be to forcefully remove the item from circulation. Boycotting is simply voting with our pocketbook. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone advocating banning this book/movie.
 
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