Catholic Position on the Masonic Lodge

[Jouin]

Pope Pius IX:

. . Venerable Brethren, you see clearly enough how sad and full of perils is the condition of Catholics in the regions of Europe which We have mentioned. Nor are things any better or circumstances calmer in America, where some regions are so hostile to Catholics that their governments seem to deny by their actions the Catholic faith they claim to profess. In fact, there, for the last few years, a ferocious war on the Church, its institutions and the rights of the Apostolic See has been raging… Venerable Brothers, it is surprising that in our time such a great war is being waged against the Catholic Church. But anyone who knows the nature, desires and intentions of the sects, whether they be called masonic or bear another name, and compares them with the nature the systems and the vastness of the obstacles by which the Church has been assailed almost everywhere, cannot doubt that the present misfortune must mainly be imputed to the frauds and machinations of these sects. It is from them that the synagogue of Satan, which gathers its troops against the Church of Christ, takes its strength. In the past Our predecessors, vigilant even from the beginning in Israel, had already denounced them to the kings and the nations, and had condemned them time and time again, and even We have not failed in this duty. If those who would have been able to avert such a deadly scourge had only had more faith in the supreme Pastors of the Church! But this scourge, winding through sinuous caverns, . . . deceiving many with astute frauds, finally has arrived at the point where it comes forth impetuously from its hiding places and triumphs as a powerful master. Since the throng of its propagandists has grown enormously, these wicked groups think that they have already become masters of the world and that they have almost reached their pre-established goal. Having sometimes obtained what they desired, and that is power, in several countries, they boldly turn the help of powers and authorities which they have secured to trying to submit the Church of God to the most cruel servitude, to undermine the foundations on which it rests, to contaminate its splendid qualities; and, moreover, to strike it with frequent blows, to shake it, to overthrow it, and, if possible, to make it disappear completely from the earth. Things being thus, Venerable Brothers, make every effort to defend the faithful which are entrusted to you against the insidious contagion of these sects and to save from perdition those who unfortunately have inscribed themselves in such sects. Make known and attack those who, whether suffering from, or planning, deception, are not afraid to affirm that these shady congregations aim only at the profit of society, at progress and mutual benefit. **Explain to them often and impress deeply on their souls the Papal constitutions on this subject and teach, them that the masonic associations are anathematized by them not only in Europe but also in America and wherever they may be in the whole world. **

papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

 

[imroc]

My position on the Masonic Lodge (and other places):

Since I’m an HVAC/R technician in a rural area I have alot of customers that hold residence in buildings that I maintain. Among them are the Masonic Lodge, Planned Parenthood, several LDS centers, SDA, etc etc.

My position on these lodges is a great one! I have access! Oh! BTW, pretty much all of them have several St. Jude medals lying around in them

 

[goodknight439]

My position on these lodges is a great one! I have access! Oh! BTW, pretty much all of them have several St. Jude medals lying around in them

Good Man! One has to love our subtle Catholic Evangelization.

 

[grandsecretary]

I can inform you that there is no such organisation as “The Freemasons”.

The Masonic Grand Lodge which caused the problems for Roman Catholics is The United Grand Lodge of England, based in London. Their rabid anti-Catholic, occult, Rosicrucian books of constitutons of 1717 and 1723 were the catalyst for the break with the Holy See at Rome which previously actively supported this ancient Grand Lodge.

The original Anglo-Saxon form of Freemasonry has a very large Catholic membership, including myself.

This Grand Lodge dates back to AD 926 and still works according to the pure and original form of Free Masonry insisting that its members declare a belief in the existence of God and the immortality of souls.

Past Grand Masters of The Grand Lodge of All England include:-

St Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury; St Edward the Confessor; Gundulf, Archbishop of Canterbury, Bishop of Rochester; Peter de Colchurch a Norman monk; Peter de Rupibus, Bishop of Winchester; Gauthier Giffard (Walter Gifford), Archbishop of York; Gauthier or Walter Stapleton, Bishop of Exeter; William of Wykeham, Bishop of Winchester; Simon de Langham, Prelate, Statesman, Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury; Henry Chicheley, Archbishop of Canterbury, Ecclesiastical Doctor of Laws; William of Waynflete, Provost Bishop of Winchester; Cardinal Pierre d’Aubusson, “Shield of the Church”; John Islip, Abbot of Westminster; Cardinal Thomas Wolsey; John Poynet, Bishop of Winchester, Bishop of Rochester ; Charles Challenor, cousin to Richard Challenor who has been described as the greatest of the Vicars-Apostolic and the foremost Catholic Bishop of the Georgian era;.

Our Masons have been persecuted for their Catholicism and have suffered prosecution, seizure of property, bankruptcy, imprisonment, exile and execution.

So, please do not include us in your comments about “The Freemasons”. We disassociate ourselves from The United Grand Lodge of England and its practices.

The Grand Lodge at York remains true to its sacred religious Anglo-Saxon ideals.

Please read our website before you respond as you cannot make a meaningful contribution to the debate inless you research the subject and make yourselves thoroughly familiar with the fount of true Freemasonry at York, which, until very recently, was not publicly known about.

Peter Clatworthy
Grand Secretary
Grand Lodge of All England
www.grandlodgeofallengland.org

 

[Sublime_Prince]

Past Grand Masters of The Grand Lodge of All England include:-

St Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury; St Edward the Confessor; Gundulf, Archbishop of Canterbury, Bishop of Rochester; Peter de Colchurch a Norman monk; Peter de Rupibus, Bishop of Winchester; Gauthier Giffard (Walter Gifford), Archbishop of York; Gauthier or Walter Stapleton, Bishop of Exeter; William of Wykeham, Bishop of Winchester; Simon de Langham, Prelate, Statesman, Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury; Henry Chicheley, Archbishop of Canterbury, Ecclesiastical Doctor of Laws; William of Waynflete, Provost Bishop of Winchester; Cardinal Pierre d’Aubusson, “Shield of the Church”; John Islip, Abbot of Westminster; Cardinal Thomas Wolsey; John Poynet, Bishop of Winchester, Bishop of Rochester ; Charles Challenor, cousin to Richard Challenor who has been described as the greatest of the Vicars-Apostolic and the foremost Catholic Bishop of the Georgian era;.

Our Masons have been persecuted for their Catholicism and have suffered prosecution, seizure of property, bankruptcy, imprisonment, exile and execution.

How can anyone say masonry is satanic or anti-christian it complements our faith so much. Look how many Bishops and Archbishop’s are masons from The Grand Lodge of All England . I think masonry helps christians understand their faith and follow there faith so much. If anti-masons would just learn what the rituals actually say and where the wording comes from in the Bible. Its a shame most anti-masons just rely on unauthorized rituals published online that are many times modified or misquoted by unscrupulous authors to give masonry a black eye. The masonic bible I was given has a biblical reference to just about everything we do in our degree work. Some of masonry is philosophical too , but the philosophy we study complements religous teachings.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The Masonic Bible my grandfather owned calls us Papists and Romanists. Thats all I need to know about that pseudo cult.

 

[grandsecretary]

Some of masonry is philosophical too , but the philosophy we study complements religous teachings.

Sublime Prince

I am afraid that if you are a Catholic then you have been sorely misled. You belong to a branch of Freemasonry that does not have the history, or the philosophy, of our Grand Masters.

These are not Grand Masters of your United Grand Lodge of England, they are Grand Masters of our Grand Lodge at York.

I am sorry but we cannot allow you to use their names and their reputations as a justification for your type of freemasonry which has no connection whatsoever with our pure, ancient and original Free Masonry.

If he wishes to partake of Masonry in its Original Purity, he will turn his attention to that source, where it hath been Inviolably maintained and continued for Successive Ages to this Day, and where the Legislature of Masonry for this Kingdom stands fixed by its true Title “The Grand Lodge of All England, Established at the City of York.”

Statement issued at York 1779

Peter

 

[grandsecretary]

The Masonic Bible my grandfather owned calls us Papists and Romanists. Thats all I need to know about that pseudo cult.

The reason that the abomination of a “Masonic” Bible existed is because the United Grand Lodge of England of 1717 was formed by anti-Catholics in the Hanoverian cause.

Unfortunately there are some Catholics who, without knowing its foundation and history, have been duped into becoming members of this organisation.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Unfortunately there are some Catholics who, without knowing its foundation and history, have been duped into becoming members of this organisation.

Much like there are some Catholics who, without knowing the correct teaching of Holy Mother Church, have been duped into thinking that masonry is something Catholics are allowed to do.

 

[grandsecretary]

Much like there are some Catholics who, without knowing the correct teaching of Holy Mother Church, have been duped into thinking that masonry is something Catholics are allowed to do.

Indeed, I agree with you entirely.

Unfortunately, there remains incompatibility at the moment between what the Holy Mother Church teaches and what is considered to be “masonry”. Unfortunately the “de facto” standard is The United Grand Lodge of England and the teachings of the Church are directed towards this form of freemasonry.

We are, of course, in touch with the Holy See in respect of these issues and of this Grand Lodge. We are currently preparing a detailed submission for Rome.

 

[ralphinal]

Indeed, I agree with you entirely.

Unfortunately, there remains incompatibility at the moment between what the Holy Mother Church teaches and what is considered to be “masonry”. Unfortunately the “de facto” standard is The United Grand Lodge of England and the teachings of the Church are directed towards this form of freemasonry.

We are, of course, in touch with the Holy See in respect of these issues and of this Grand Lodge. We are currently preparing a detailed submission for Rome.

The information that you posted was very interesting. Can you tell me if there is any connection between your Lodge and the United States?

Further, is your lodge connected to any in Alabama?

 

[Sublime_Prince]

Sublime Prince

I am afraid that if you are a Catholic then you have been sorely misled. You belong to a branch of Freemasonry that does not have the history, or the philosophy, of our Grand Masters.

These are not Grand Masters of your United Grand Lodge of England, they are Grand Masters of our Grand Lodge at York.

I am sorry but we cannot allow you to use their names and their reputations as a justification for your type of freemasonry which has no connection whatsoever with our pure, ancient and original Free Masonry.

Peter

Well lets not be arrogant and stuck up now!

I thought masonry was to unite us across all continents and nations, not divide us apart and be judgemental of each other “you are inferior to us” with noses in the air. Masonry is about brotherly love to all masons around the world. Its about being humble to all mankind. I have visited many lodges and had many masons from across the globe visit our Grand Lodge. They were all humble and treated me the same brotherly love they would with their own members.

Masonry is about brothery love. We are taught to regard the whole human species as one family. The high and the low, the rich and the poor who as created by one almight parent and inhabits of the same planet are to aid and support each other. On this principle masonry unites men of every sect and opinion and consildates true frendship amoung those who might have otherwise remained at a perpetual distance.

I would treat a mason in Europe, Africa, Asia, Canada with the same brotherly love and respect as I do here in the United States. I wouldn’t consider anyone inferrior to me or be judgemental because I am commanded not to do so.

I don’t belong to the United Grand Lodge of England, I live in England. I live in the United States. In the US each state has its own Grand Lodge with its own rules that is not rules by one Grand Lodge in another nation. The highest authority goes is the States Grand Lodge, that is where the bucket ends.

 

[grandsecretary]

Well lets not be arrogant and stuck up now!

I thought masonry was to unite us across all continents and nations, not divide us apart and be judgemental of each other “you are inferior to us” with noses in the air. Masonry is about brotherly love to all masons around the world. Its about being humble to all mankind. I have visited many lodges and had many masons from across the globe visit our Grand Lodge. They were all humble and treated me the same brotherly love they would with their own members.

Masonry is about brothery love. We are taught to regard the whole human species as one family. The high and the low, the rich and the poor who as created by one almight parent and inhabits of the same planet are to aid and support each other. On this principle masonry unites men of every sect and opinion and consildates true frendship amoung those who might have otherwise remained at a perpetual distance.

I would treat a mason in Europe, Africa, Asia, Canada with the same brotherly love and respect as I do here in the United States. I wouldn’t consider anyone inferrior to me or be judgemental because I am commanded not to do so.

I don’t belong to the United Grand Lodge of England, I live in England. I live in the United States. In the US each state has its own Grand Lodge with its own rules that is not rules by one Grand Lodge in another nation. The highest authority goes is the States Grand Lodge, that is where the bucket ends.

That is not very kind. You should actually read what has been posted and not expect everyone to agree with your point of view.

Your Grand Lodge would have received a “warrant” or permission to work as a Masonic Grand Lodge from either The United Grand Lodge of England based in London, or The Grand Lodge of Scotland or Ireland.

Your Grand Lodge is, therefore, a Moderns Grand Lodge governed by the Anderson Constitutions of 1738 and that is the key point.

We are not. We are governed by the pure, ancient and original “Constitutions of Masonrie” which pre-date the “Andersons” by several hundreds of years.

Our constitutions remain true to the Ancient Landmarks of a Free Mason which require a belief in the existence of God and the Immortality of souls. Your Constitution abandoned this requirement in 1723.

That is not a “superior/inferior” thing, it is a question of religious and moral beliefs, and historical fact, which I am sure that you would respect.

We are not on a Masonic forum here, we are on a public, religious catholic forum, and the truth must be told.

Freemasonry is not one homogenous group with a single set of rules and one set of “approved” rituals. This is a debate about our religion in relation to Freemasonry per se, and the “Catholic Position on the Masonic Lodge”.

We are entitled to respond on our behalf. You must speak for yourself.

What we are saying is that the answers so far have been exclusively about your Moderns version of “the Masonic Lodge” which do not represent us, or our sincerely held Catholic religious beliefs.

What I am trying to do here is to answer questions from our perspective, no matter how inconvenient this might be for you or your form of freemasonry.

I am not prepared to lie to people in the interests of “Universal Masonic solidarity”. That has been going on for far too long.

Peter

 

[grandsecretary]

The information that you posted was very interesting. Can you tell me if there is any connection between your Lodge and the United States?

Further, is your lodge connected to any in Alabama?

Yes we have two St John’s Lodges in the United States of America. One based in Ohio, and one in Texas. All of our Masons in America belong to one or other of these St John’s Lodges.

We currently have members in 15 States of the Union.

Peter

 

[ralphinal]

Yes we have two St John’s Lodges in the United States of America. One based in Ohio, and one in Texas. All of our Masons in America belong to one or other of these St John’s Lodges.

We currently have members in 15 States of the Union.

Peter

Interesting. So, if I am reading you correctly, the Scottish and York rites are as foreign from you as they are from the French form. I am interested in the process that you are going through with Rome as well. Is there a place where we can watch the progress?

In Alabama, lodges are historically close to the KKK (White Supremacist that also hate Catholics and Jews). This would seem to be foreign to you guys. Right?

 

[grandsecretary]

Interesting. So, if I am reading you correctly, the Scottish and York rites are as foreign from you as they are from the French form. I am interested in the process that you are going through with Rome as well. Is there a place where we can watch the progress?

In Alabama, lodges are historically close to the KKK (White Supremacist that also hate Catholics and Jews). This would seem to be foreign to you guys. Right?

We stand alone. The Scottish and York Rites are not acceptable to us, as is race or religious hatred which have no place anywhere in the world, least of all in Freemasonry.

We do not support the Grand Orient of France with its system of laicite, but we enjoy a Treaty of Amity with the Grand Lodge of France. However, we restrict intervisitation with them to the degrees of Apprentice Freemason and Fellow of the Craft only.

The Grand Lodge of France uses the Holy Bible as their Volume of the Sacred Law when initiating candidates.

As you can imagine, exchanges between ourselves and the Holy See are delicate and confidential but I will keep you up to date whenever possible. It is early days. Our submission will not be ready for several months yet.

Peter

 

[ralphinal]

We stand alone. The Scottish and York Rites are not acceptable to us, as is race or religious hatred which have no place anywhere in the world, least of all in Freemasonry.

We do not support the Grand Orient of France with its system of laicite, but we enjoy a Treaty of Amity with the Grand Lodge of France. However, we restrict intervisitation with them to the degrees of Apprentice Freemason and Fellow of the Craft only.

The Grand Lodge of France uses the Holy Bible as their Volume of the Sacred Law when initiating candidates.

As you can imagine, exchanges between ourselves and the Holy See are delicate and confidential but I will keep you up to date whenever possible. It is early days. Our submission will not be ready for several months yet.

Peter

Personally, I am glad to know that there is at least one group of Masons who sees the same issues with the others that we do. I hope that you will flourish in the future.

Did your lodge have ot go into deep hiding when Catholics were persecuted in England? Did you guys help the persecuted ones?

 

[grandsecretary]

Personally, I am glad to know that there is at least one group of Masons who sees the same issues with the others that we do. I hope that you will flourish in the future.

Did your lodge have ot go into deep hiding when Catholics were persecuted in England? Did you guys help the persecuted ones?

Thank you. Some of our Masons lived in exile in France.

 

[grandsecretary]

This is the latest and current Papal declaration which I obtained from the Catholic News Service earlier today:-

Timeline of principal doctrinal decisions, documents, 1981-2005
By Catholic News Service

– Nov. 26, 1983: “Declaration on Masonic Associations,” saying Masonic principles and rituals “embody a naturalistic” religion incompatible with Christianity. Those who knowingly embrace the principles or attend the rituals are involved in serious sin and may not receive Communion."

The Grand Lodge of All England has always incorporated firm Christian belief and values in its doctrine and a number of our Grand Masters have been prelates who have attained sainthood.

As we neither “embrace the principles” nor attend any rituals “embodying a naturalistic religion” then we are clearly and unequivocally excluded from this principal doctrinal decision.

Therefore, Catholics may have no concerns about becoming a Free Mason under the jurisdiction of this Grand Lodge of All England and vice versa.

As a Roman Catholic of 60 years standing, I am perfectly satisfied that I am entitled to receive the Holy Sacraments until and unless I am told otherwise by a formal doctrinal statement from His Holiness, specifying that he is addressing my Grand Lodge, and no other, and outlining his reasons why this should not remain the case.

This remains the status quo.

 

[ralphinal]

This is the latest and current Papal declaration which I obtained from the Catholic News Service earlier today:-

The Grand Lodge of All England has always incorporated firm Christian belief and values in its doctrine and a number of our Grand Masters have been prelates who have attained sainthood.

As we neither “embrace the principles” nor attend any rituals “embodying a naturalistic religion” then we are clearly and unequivocally excluded from this principal doctrinal decision.

Therefore, Catholics may have no concerns about becoming a Free Mason under the jurisdiction of this Grand Lodge of All England and vice versa.

As a Roman Catholic of 60 years standing, I am perfectly satisfied that I am entitled to receive the Holy Sacraments until and unless I am told otherwise by a formal doctrinal statement from His Holiness, specifying that he is addressing my Grand Lodge, and no other, and outlining his reasons why this should not remain the case.

This remains the status quo.

At least you see where Rome is coming from. I wish you all God’s blessings on your journey through this life.