Catholic Position on the Masonic Lodge

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SPOKENWORD:
Hi James ,You try to justify its okay because this person or that person belongs. So what ,they are all blinded to the TRUTH. You are responsable for yourself. They are not going to be with you on judgement day. You will stand alone and be held accountable. :confused: God Bless
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Hi Spoken:

Missed my entire point, entirely my bruth-uh - as usual.

Exporter had implied that “Anglicans can’t join the lodge”.

As a reasonably well-informed Episcopalian Freemason, I posted a correction of that tidbit of , um - misinformation.

Frankly, your ongoing obsession with hell greatly puzzles me, Spokenword.

Also your obsession with Albert Pike is beyond all reason -

Lucifer is a fallen angel and is the devil. Yes - I get it already.

A lodge which has the Holy Bible open on the altar - and we’re busy worshipping :bowdown: Beelzebub ? How ridiculous is THAT ?

Oh - oops : you’ve already told us that “Masons don’t know what’s in the Bible**”** - sorry, I forgot -** Masons can’t read !** Silly me ! :whacky:

But I’ve also heard that we travel around Texas in a big bus - along the Mexican border, paying illegal immigrants money to join masonic lodges. Hey - I’m used to it.

A really good zinger would be: "Masons bar-b-que BABIES on the 4th of July ! " They wash 'em down with Lone Star Beer - it’s a NATIONAL ENQUIRER dream headline…

Here’s something to YOU to chew on if you’re stuck on the devil and Lucifer :

www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

Did you sit for long hours in a backwoods Baptist Church in your childhood ? Do you play with matches ? Have you ever put a poodle in the microwave ?

Or is this some kind of twisted joke ? Your claims are so outrageous that I just have to wonder if you’re really being serious !

My fondest hope would be that you’re simply out to yank my chain…

Footnote to fellow CAF members / visitors : Spokenword is NOT a Roman Catholic - he insults my intellect and powers of reason almost daily. He thinks that I’m a zombie, controlled by Lucifer.

Yes. It is very tiresome.

:hmmm:

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Are Catholics forbidden from being in the Lions Club or the Elks? My uncle was a convert to Catholicism, and a member of his local Elks lodge until the day he died. He probably was not guilty of any sin here, as his parish was very liberal (at his funeral, the priest said that at the current time noncatholics weren’t allowed to receive communion, but that they were trying to change that), and it probably didn’t even occur to him that it was wrong to be a part of those organizations.
 
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jamesclaude:
Hi Spoken:

Missed my entire point, entirely my bruth-uh - as usual.

Exporter had implied that “Anglicans can’t join the lodge”.

As a reasonably well-informed Episcopalian Freemason, I posted a correction of that tidbit of , um - misinformation.

Frankly, your ongoing obsession with hell greatly puzzles me, Spokenword.

Also your obsession with Albert Pike is beyond all reason -

Lucifer is a fallen angel and is the devil. Yes - I get it already.

A lodge which has the Holy Bible open on the altar - and we’re busy worshipping :bowdown: Beelzebub ? How ridiculous is THAT ?

Oh - oops : you’ve already told us that “Masons don’t know what’s in the Bible**”** - sorry, I forgot -** Masons can’t read !** Silly me ! :whacky:

But I’ve also heard that we travel around Texas in a big bus - along the Mexican border, paying illegal immigrants money to join masonic lodges. Hey - I’m used to it.

A really good zinger would be: "Masons bar-b-que BABIES on the 4th of July ! " They wash 'em down with Lone Star Beer - it’s a NATIONAL ENQUIRER dream headline…

Here’s something to YOU to chew on if you’re stuck on the devil and Lucifer :

www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

Did you sit for long hours in a backwoods Baptist Church in your childhood ? Do you play with matches ? Have you ever put a poodle in the microwave ?

Or is this some kind of twisted joke ? Your claims are so outrageous that I just have to wonder if you’re really being serious !

My fondest hope would be that you’re simply out to yank my chain…

Footnote to fellow CAF members / visitors : Spokenword is NOT a Roman Catholic - he insults my intellect and powers of reason almost daily. He thinks that I’m a zombie, controlled by Lucifer.

Yes. It is very tiresome.

:hmmm:

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Hi James, Boy you are so close.Zombie,NO,controlled by Lucifer,YES…Sometimes the TRUTH hurts.It dosnt matter that you dont like me.Talking about being insulting,you my friend insult God by your comments.They are filled with lies and distortions and you come here to promote your agenda.Like I said you cannot be a christian and a mason.Thats the Truth. There is no such thing as well informed christian mason.Your mind is clouded with satans smokescreen. Its time to blow the smoke away my friend so that you can see the TRUTH. :eek: God Bless anyways
 
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jamesclaude:
Footnote to fellow CAF members / visitors : Spokenword is NOT a Roman Catholic - he insults my intellect and powers of reason almost daily. He thinks that I’m a zombie, controlled by Lucifer.

Yes. It is very tiresome.

:hmmm:

.
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Footnote to CA Christians, Forgive me of my ways I talk towards a mason who claims to be a christian. My intent is only to bring out Gods truth and not be insulting. 😦 God Bless
 
The Church said it was bad, good enough for me!. The Masons claim Solomon as their founder .What I have read is that Herod sent them up to be opposition to Christ’s Church. They exercise enormous control in finances and Govt. Most members are meerly social. It is the leadership. Protugal was another country that was taken over for a time by them. The assasinated King Carlos in 1909 and in 1910 controlled the Govt. It was they who kidnapped and threatened teh Fatima children. It is they who have been working behind the scenes promulgating NWO. I would join the K of C or some other group and stay far away from the Masons
 
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m134e5:
Are Catholics forbidden from being in the Lions Club or the Elks? My uncle was a convert to Catholicism, and a member of his local Elks lodge until the day he died. He probably was not guilty of any sin here, as his parish was very liberal (at his funeral, the priest said that at the current time noncatholics weren’t allowed to receive communion, but that they were trying to change that), and it probably didn’t even occur to him that it was wrong to be a part of those organizations.
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]

Essentially, Roman Catholics should consult with a priest before affiliating with any organiation that might have a history of anti-Catholicism, advocates anti-Catholic principles, involves the would-be Catholic in non-Catholic worship alongside of non-Catholics, dabbles in occultism, etcetera. In practice: few Catholic priests would believe that the Elks, the Lions Club, the Fraternal Order of Eagles, the Moose Lodge, the International Order of Odd-Fellows, etcetera did any of those things. Therefore, membership in such organizations would be deemed acceptable. You CAN find Roman Catholics who are reluctant to encourage fellow Catholics to join any fraternal organization but in general I think most would ask seek only to apply guidelines of the sort I just raised.

The Masonic Lodges of Great Britain and of the United States feel that they also do not cause their members to participate in any of the proscribed practices I just mentioned. A renegade variant of Freemasonry–the Grand Orient Lodges, originally of France by which spread throughout Europe–are virulently anti-clerical. Various individual Freemasons have sought to impose occultic interpretations upon Masonic ritual. Some non-Masonic critics insist emphatically that Freemasonry advocates religious indifferentism and/or crosses the line between holding it’s membership to an ethical code and advocating or teachng religion. Freemasons of course feel that it is unfair to associate the whole movement with a renegade branch of it, and insist that they do NOT teach religious indifferentism nor is Freemasonry an occultic sect, nor are members involved in any sort of religious worship. They feel they are no different than any other fraternal order–just older, with a more checkered history than these other organizations. Hope this helps!
 
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camby:
The Church said it was bad, good enough for me!. The Masons claim Solomon as their founder .What I have read is that Herod sent them up to be opposition to Christ’s Church. They exercise enormous control in finances and Govt. Most members are meerly social. It is the leadership. Protugal was another country that was taken over for a time by them. The assasinated King Carlos in 1909 and in 1910 controlled the Govt. It was they who kidnapped and threatened teh Fatima children. It is they who have been working behind the scenes promulgating NWO. I would join the K of C or some other group and stay far away from the Masons
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It’s become clear to me that one of the major differences between Catholics and most other Christians is " the Church said it - I believe it - that settles it. " I’m sure that this philosophy holds true under the various sects and denominations, and is not exclusive to the Roman Catholic Church.

And - that’s ok ! EVERYONE has their right to believe and follow whatever they decide to.

The gobble-d-gook which follows your initial statement is what’s NOT OK - especially without quoting reliable historians ( they’d have to be non-Masonic or non-Catholic historians, though - totally unbiased ). Despite holding a degree in history, naturally I must recuse myself as a source - being a Freemason.

Masons pattern their lodges after Solomon’s Temple - much of Masonic ritual revolves around the erection of the temple - openly referred to as “instructive legends”. No Mason that I know traces the origins of the Fraternity to Solomon’s Temple !

Herod didn’t ring up the local Masonic Hall and give the brethren instructions to “be opposition to Christ’s Church” - *where on earth did you read that ? *

Masonry revealed itself for the first time in London - in 1717 - a bit AFTER the days of Herod ! Most Masons trace the origins back no more than five to eight hundred years back - depending upon which manuscript, tapestry or artifacts one wishes to rely.

[www.masonicinfo.com/primer.htm](Freemasonry Primer)

Despite the mutual antagonisms of Freemasonry and the Roman Catholic Church in the late 19th Century, my fondest hope would be to continue to distance ourselves from those days. My younger brother is a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus - I prayerfully support him - as both a Knight - and in his Roman Catholic faith as my brother in Jesus Christ.

What do the Masons think about the Knights of Columbus ?

[www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm](Knights of Columbus)

Masons kidnapped the Fatima children ? Whut ? That’s a new one. ** Sources, please !**

Oh - speaking of Solomon’s Temple - here’s an interesting photo of the splendid and beautiful lodgeroom of Freemason’s Hall in London - ( AND the explanation of “temple” - in Masonic parlance)

[www.masonicinfo.com/temples.htm](Temples)

Fiat Lux !

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jamesclaude:
Masons kidnapped the Fatima children ? Whut ? That’s a new one. **Sources, please ! **
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Sorry james this is *NOT *a new one:

fatima.org
From 1917 to 1920 the Church’s position regarding the Fatima apparitions was one of prudent reserve and silence. As is the practice of the Church in similar circumstances, She refrained from passing judgment on the event until a thorough investigation was conducted.
At the time of the apparitions, the Portuguese clergy were reluctant to encourage belief in them, and many actually discouraged the laity from going to Fatima. The Portuguese clergy acted in this way in a large measure because of the recent persecutions suffered by the Church in Portugal at the hands of the anti-Catholic Masonic government. With the pain of the terrible persecutions still fresh in their minds, the clergy did not want to take any steps that would further provoke the government’s wrath. Although President Sidonio Pais had struck down many of the country’s anti-Catholic laws by 1918 (which in turn led to his murder by his Masonic brethren in late 1918), the Portuguese clergy were fearful to take actions that would incite their return.
The apparitions of Our Lady at Fatima indeed provoked strong opposition from many sides: from the local government, as illustrated by the August 1917 kidnapping of the three children by the village Administrator; from the Freemasons, as exhibited by the destruction of the Capelinha that took place in March 1922; and even from the press, which was controlled by the Masons and which scorned the apparitions until witnessing the October 1917 Miracle of the Sun. Thus, from every quarter that fostered disdain and hatred toward God and His Church, strong opposition to the events at Fatima was exhibited.
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catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Inside/0809-97/fatima.html
**
**Antagonism Towards Fatima **
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It was not only Russian Communists who attempted to discredit the Fatima phenomenon. First to malign the Marian apparitions was Freemasonry. Around 1917 Portugal was passing through a period of fierce anti-Catholicism. From October 1910, a new government under the presidency of Theophile Braga had started to implement an anticlerical policy: this included expulsion of the Jesuit order, closure of monasteries and convents, and expropriation of their goods, an embargo on religious education. The new constitution of August 21, 1911 proclaimed the separation of Church and State and Manuel de Arriaga, leader of the Liberal Party and a well-known Mason, was elected to the Presidency.

Numerous historical documents report the great affluence of believers to Fatima between the first and last Fatima apparitions, that is May-October 1917, just after Portugal’s entrance into the world war. This religious enthusiasm only intensified the Masons’ anti-clericalism. Masonic efforts were not limited to vicious attacks in the atheist press, but even included actions of physical violence, with the collusion of state authorities.

First the three young visionaries were kidnapped. Then, on August 19, 1917, a demonstration of protest and propaganda was organized in Fatima itself against “clerical machinations.” On August 23, Cova da Iria (the precise locality of the apparitions) was sacked and profaned, and a short while later a mocking nocturnal procession, with obscene songs, gestures and blasphemous curses took place in the nearby town of Santaram. The clergy of Fatima and the surrounding area, was forced to put up with persecutions and vexations of every sort, particularly during the years 1918-20. :tsktsk:
**
 
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jamesclaude:
It’s become clear to me that one of the major differences between Catholics and most other Christians is " the Church said it - I believe it - that settles it. " I’m sure that this philosophy holds true under the various sects and denominations, and is not exclusive to the Roman Catholic Church.

And - that’s ok ! EVERYONE has their right to believe and follow whatever they decide to.
What do the Masons think about the Knights of Columbus ?

[www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm](Knights of Columbus)

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From that masons site :…"There are many Masons who are also involved members of the KofC and it is not unusual for KofC Councils and Masonic Lodges to share an annual ‘Fellowship Breakfast’ or other activities in the interests of fraternalism. "

Oh, really !!!

IF there are any Knights who are masons and I emphasize IF, then they are certainly misinformed and subject to expulsion from our ranks. They can not remain a mason and remain a member of KC, just not possible, at least not possible as far as the rules of our order.

PLUS I serously doubt any KC Council would combine with a FM group to run any kind of event, certainly not our council and not in our state.

Knights can, will not, and do not ever go against the teachings of our Church. To do so willingly and knowingly invites disgrace upon that Knight and they can consider themselves ex-knights from that point on. This is NOT to imply that Knights can not sin or do anything wrong.

But to join an organization that the Church deems inappropriate, and punishable with excommunication is ludicrous and unheard of, no KC member who wants to remain a KC member would ever do so.

Sorry but that fable just doesn’t fly.
wc

Source
 
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wcknight:
From that masons site :…"There are many Masons who are also involved members of the KofC and it is not unusual for KofC Councils and Masonic Lodges to share an annual ‘Fellowship Breakfast’ or other activities in the interests of fraternalism. "

Oh, really !!!

IF there are any Knights who are masons and I emphasize IF, then they are certainly misinformed and subject to expulsion from our ranks. They can not remain a mason and remain a member of KC, just not possible, at least not possible as far as the rules of our order.

PLUS I serously doubt any KC Council would combine with a FM group to run any kind of event, certainly not our council and not in our state.

Knights can, will not, and do not ever go against the teachings of our Church. To do so willingly and knowingly invites disgrace upon that Knight and they can consider themselves ex-knights from that point on. This is NOT to imply that Knights can not sin or do anything wrong.

But to join an organization that the Church deems inappropriate, and punishable with excommunication is ludicrous and unheard of, no KC member who wants to remain a KC member would ever do so.

Sorry but that fable just doesn’t fly.
wc

Source
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Hi WC. This is just another confirmation that satan is a LIAR. :eek: God Bless
 
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jamesclaude:
A lodge which has the Holy Bible open on the altar - and we’re busy worshipping :bowdown: Beelzebub ? How ridiculous is THAT ?

Oh - oops : you’ve already told us that “Masons don’t know what’s in the Bible**”** - sorry, I forgot -** Masons can’t read !** Silly me ! :whacky:
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Hi JamesClaude,

Do the rules of freemasonry state that the Holy Book has to be the bible? As I understand it, the Holy Book can be any holy book, like the Karan.

Peace.
 
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jamesclaude:
he
A lodge which has the Holy Bible open on the altar - and we’re busy worshipping :bowdown: Beelzebub ? How ridiculous is THAT ?

Oh - oops : you’ve already told us that “Masons don’t know what’s in the Bible**”** - sorry, I forgot -** Masons can’t read !** Silly me ! :whacky: ================================================================================= Its not that you cannot read. Its that you do not believe what it says… :eek: God Bless
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Not only have I been to activities in which both the Freemasons and the Knights of Columbus worked together, I have also been to banquets for Catholic Charities hosted by the Freemasons, with Bishops in attendance.

I personally know several KofC’s who are Freemasons. I don’t know how it is in the rest of the country, but in Chicago everybody gets along well.

~cleopa
 
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cleopa:
Not only have I been to activities in which both the Freemasons and the Knights of Columbus worked together, I have also been to banquets for Catholic Charities hosted by the Freemasons, with Bishops in attendance. * I personally know several KofC’s who are Freemasons. I* don’t know how it is in the rest of the country, but in Chicago everybody gets along well. ~cleopa
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Really? Does Kof C Supreme know that they are masons? I doubt it. That is not permitted since the Church prohibits membership in freemasonry. Doing so forfeits membership in Knights AND gets you excommunicated.
 
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GoodKnight1443:
Really? Does Kof C Supreme know that they are masons? I doubt it. That is not permitted since the Church prohibits membership in freemasonry. Doing so forfeits membership in Knights AND gets you excommunicated.
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Maybe KofC Supreme doesn’t really care if they are Masons.

Bigotry and fear are poor masters, Sir Knight -

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GoodKnight1443:
Really? Does Kof C Supreme know that they are masons? I doubt it. That is not permitted since the Church prohibits membership in freemasonry. Doing so forfeits membership in Knights AND gets you excommunicated.
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Maybe KofC Supreme doesn’t really care if they are Masons.

Bigotry and fear are poor masters, Sir Knight.

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GoodKnight1443:
Really? Does Kof C Supreme know that they are masons? I doubt it. That is not permitted since the Church prohibits membership in freemasonry. Doing so forfeits membership in Knights AND gets you excommunicated.
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Lo these many years hence–oh somewhere between 1994 and 1996–the Bethalto, Illinois Knights of Columbus Hall loaned out their facilities to the Bethalto Masonic Lodge. And posted on the K of C signboard, these fearsome words:

WELCOME BROTHER MASONS!

I also know of members of the Knights who are simultaneously Freemasons. I do not think this happens mainly because most of these folks are encouraging defiance or acting defiantly–I think that, despite the best efforts of the more conservative elements within the ranks of Catholicism, most people living in the real world think that whatever differences might once have existed between Freemaonry and Catholicism have been put behind both bodies, (as I feel they rightfully should be, would anyone in the Catholic hierarchy bother to lay aside bigotry and the sort of disinformation that characterizes this thread).

Folks who know that perfectly moral, right-living patriotic, and Christian people are Freemasons, often ask around and get the general (and admittedly mistaken) impression that those ‘old rules are indeed changed’, and so they ask to join the Lodge. For much the same reason that people attend both the Catholic and some non-denominational Protestant church, considering themselves full members of each body, and participating fully in the rites and sacraments of each. (I’ve known personally a few such as these as well).

I am not denying that the Church does in fact officially forbid such membership, and I am NOT recommending that people join the Lodge as some sort of protest against what I believe is the stubborn wrong-headedness of the Catholic church to lift this interdict against the Lodge. What I am saying is that most folks who join have done so in in good faith and in the sincere belief that it is NOT contradictory to their faith. Often based upon the trusted word of people they think knowlegeable of the facts. In other cases it is because reputable Catholic organizations such as the K of C OFTEN co-sponsor events with the Lodge and/or share facilities
 
Again, I am sure Supreme Council DOES NOT approve of dual membership. If one were to forward the names of those in question, there would be an investigation into the matter.
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flameburns623:
Lo these many years hence–oh somewhere between 1994 and 1996–the Bethalto, Illinois Knights of Columbus Hall loaned out their facilities to the Bethalto Masonic Lodge. And posted on the K of C signboard, these fearsome words:

WELCOME BROTHER MASONS!

I also know of members of the Knights who are simultaneously Freemasons. I do not think this happens mainly because most of these folks are encouraging defiance or acting defiantly–I think that, despite the best efforts of the more conservative elements within the ranks of Catholicism, most people living in the real world think that whatever differences might once have existed between Freemaonry and Catholicism have been put behind both bodies, (as I feel they rightfully should be, would anyone in the Catholic hierarchy bother to lay aside bigotry and the sort of disinformation that characterizes this thread).

Folks who know that perfectly moral, right-living patriotic, and Christian people are Freemasons, often ask around and get the general (and admittedly mistaken) impression that those ‘old rules are indeed changed’, and so they ask to join the Lodge. For much the same reason that people attend both the Catholic and some non-denominational Protestant church, considering themselves full members of each body, and participating fully in the rites and sacraments of each. (I’ve known personally a few such as these as well).

I am not denying that the Church does in fact officially forbid such membership, and I am NOT recommending that people join the Lodge as some sort of protest against what I believe is the stubborn wrong-headedness of the Catholic church to lift this interdict against the Lodge. What I am saying is that most folks who join have done so in in good faith and in the sincere belief that it is NOT contradictory to their faith. Often based upon the trusted word of people they think knowlegeable of the facts. In other cases it is because reputable Catholic organizations such as the K of C OFTEN co-sponsor events with the Lodge and/or share facilities
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