Catholic shift gives Democrats big boost

[estesbob]

it is so refreshing to hear the moderate/independent POV…love it! Agreed.

Unfortunately the message was written in the blood of our chidlren.

 

[dmelosi]

Well put!

 

[estesbob]

See these teachings clearly show God likes cash. That’s why his real followers do not discuss such sacred issues.

. Can you give a link to where the Church endorses one parties fiscal policies over the others? Can you direct us to where the Church teaches that its OK to vote for a pro-abortion canidate if you like their views on taxation?

 

[MJE]

No one can seriously argue that the Republican platform is indifferent or harmful to the poor. There has been an increase in public money to social/welfare programs for the past 6 yrs. There has been a serious debate(and books written) within conservative. circles re: public ed. and saving the children of the inner city from the costly and ineffective public ed. systems. When and where has there been such a serious debate coming from modern Dem’s re: the plight of the inner city schools? The Dems and the teachers union speak with one voice and one mind. Our public school system is broken. While the Dem’s attempt to chase religion out of the public square the Rep. are discussing faith based programs for the addict, the homeless et al. I start yawning when I hear priests/religious suggest that the poor are protected by the Dems.

 

[system]

I start yawning when I hear priests/religious suggest that the poor are protected by the Dems.

Since I’ve never heard it, I’m not sure why it woulkd make you yawn.

I’ll make you a promise, if I ever hear a priest telling me the poor are protected by the Dems I will put a $100 in that collection basket!

 

[system]

While the Dem’s attempt to chase religion out of the public square the Rep. are discussing faith based programs for the addict, the homeless et al.

Yes, I remember millions going to the Hara Krishnas in Philly and a number of other religious groups, some of whom are a bit “cult-ish” in their behavior, like the moonies, scientologists, etc.

The article noted that some of these groups are already getting government money, detailing how the Hare Krishnas received $2.5 million in public funds to run a halfway house for ex-convicts in Philadelphia. The Krishnas secularized the program to qualify, but under Bush’s proposal they could bring their faith, an offshoot of Hinduism, back in.

The article also quoted officials with Scientology who hope to win federal funds for a drug rehabilitation program and representatives of the Unification Church who want help for an abstinence-based sex education course. (Scientology’s drug rehabilitation program, Narconon, has already received government funding in some states.)
full article: findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3944/is_200104/ai_n8950244

The faith-based initiatives might have seemed like a good idea, but proved to be a textbook example of the government has got to stary out of religion (and vice versa)

Even Pat Robertson was not pleased.

“I really don’t know what to do,” he told his “700 Club” audience Feb. 20. “But this thing could be a real Pandora’s box. And what seems to be such a great initiative can rise up to bite the organizations as well as the federal government. And I’m a little concerned about it, frankly.”

another:

In an interview with the Fox News Channel’s Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes, Robertson said that “if the government gets into the faith-based initiative too much, they’re going to dominate what the people of faith think. And one of the things they want to impose is on hiring practices. They want to force people to be hired by religious organizations who don’t share the fundamental tenets of those religious groups.”

So basically, my government gave my tax money to the hare krishnas, (and some really cool military hardware among other things)

 

[mary_bobo]

it is so refreshing to hear the moderate/independent POV…love it! Agreed.

How long might they stay that way? Sure have not seen any moderates appointed to committee chairs yet.

 

[estesbob]

How long might they stay that way? Sure have not seen any moderates appointed to committee chairs yet.

Witness the fact that Pelosi wants Murtha as majority leader and Jayne Hartman was forced out of her committee chairmanship because she was not in support of the put your tail between your legs and run strategy being pushed by the Democrats.

Each and every committee in the United States House is headed by a Pro-abortion Democrat. How any Catholic can find joy and that is beyond me.

 

[system]

Now all you have to do is give us links to where you “opinion” are validated by any teachings of the Church.

Well, the teachings of Catholic church come from the teachings of Christ, and the teachings of Christ focused heavily on the poor and social justice. In fact MikeinSD pointed that out in this quote:

…poverty and the responsibilities of wealth is found in one out of every 10 verses in the first three Gospels, and in one out of seven verses in the Gospel of Luke

Does the catholic church go against any of the Gospels? I don’t think so.

 

[estesbob]

Well, the teachings of Catholic church come from the teachings of Christ, and the teachings of Christ focused heavily on the poor and social justice. In fact MikeinSD pointed that out in this quote:

Does the catholic church go against any of the Gospels? I don’t think so.

I take it any answer my question is no. What we’re left with is your opinion. Opinions are fine unless people start passing them off as teachings of the church.

I gave you specific instances where the policies of the Democratic Party were in direct opposition to **specific **teachings of our church. I asked you to do the same for policies of the Republican Party. Thus far no one has been unable to do so. Accordingly the statement that the policies of both parties are at odds with the teachings of the church is not correct.

 

[Jasny]

What do you think would be better and why?

This reminds me of Winston Churchill’s observation that democracy is like a raft - you are always afloat but your feet are wet all the time.

would that be the same Winston who sent the Black and Tans to Ireland to kill Catholic

 

[system]

I take it any answer my question is no.

The answer is certainly NOT 'NO"

What we’re left with is your opinion.

And the gospels of Christ

Opinions are fine unless people start passing them off as teachings of the church.

Exactly…were you speaking of yourself or me?

I gave you specific instances where the policies of the Democratic Party were in direct opposition to specific teachings of our church.

Wrong: Read again - you gave a number political hot items, but no specific teachings of the church. Yet, you demand them as if you had presented your case.
I on the other hand referred you to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Sorry that answer doesn’t meet with your approval. He’s a big hit with alot of Catholics

I asked you to do the same for policies of the Republican Party. Thus far no one has been unable to do so. .

Thus far, but do you really think a search of the church’s teaching will NOT bring up social justice, the poor, and greed that I pointed out earlier?
Takes a while to sift through the catechism when you have piles of work on your desk.

Accordingly the statement that the policies of both parties are at odds with the teachings of the church is not correct.

So are you going on the record saying that none of the republican party’s policies (and more imporantly, what they ACTUALLY do) go against the teaching of the Catholic church?!
I really hope you reconsider that. That kind of FAITH in something as corrupt as human poitics, is dangerous.

 

[estesbob]

The answer is certainly NOT 'NO"

And the gospels of Christ

Exactly…were you speaking of yourself or me?

Wrong: Read again - you gave a number political hot items, but no specific teachings of the church. Yet, you demand them as if you had presented your case.
I on the other hand referred you to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Sorry that answer doesn’t meet with your approval. He’s a big hit with alot of Catholics

Thus far, but do you really think a search of the church’s teaching will NOT bring up social justice, the poor, and greed that I pointed out earlier?
Takes a while to sift through the catechism when you have piles of work on your desk.

So are you going on the record saying that none of the republican party’s policies (and more imporantly, what they ACTUALLY do) go against the teaching of the Catholic church?!
I really hope you reconsider that. That kind of FAITH in something as corrupt as human poitics, is dangerous.

I’m awaiting you to point out what these policies are. Of course the church emphasizes social justice What they don’t do is endorse the approach to social justice embodied by either political party. Is your opinion that the Democratic Party is better on social issues ithan the Republican Party. I disagree with that opinion but the point is the church has taken no side on this. Contrast that to the direct opposition to the teachings of the Church that are found the Democratic Party party platform,

Once again I ask you to post this link to where the Church has condemned any policy of the Republican Party.

 

[dmelosi]

The answer is certainly NOT 'NO"

And the gospels of Christ

Exactly…were you speaking of yourself or me?

Wrong: Read again - you gave a number political hot items, but no specific teachings of the church. Yet, you demand them as if you had presented your case.
I on the other hand referred you to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Sorry that answer doesn’t meet with your approval. He’s a big hit with alot of Catholics

Thus far, but do you really think a search of the church’s teaching will NOT bring up social justice, the poor, and greed that I pointed out earlier?
Takes a while to sift through the catechism when you have piles of work on your desk.

So are you going on the record saying that none of the republican party’s policies (and more imporantly, what they ACTUALLY do) go against the teaching of the Catholic church?!
I really hope you reconsider that. That kind of FAITH in something as corrupt as human poitics, is dangerous.

What is so scary about this post is that many people simply “brush off” the abortion issue. I have not seen a post by a person who is an obvious democrat denounce the abortion stance that their party takes. The erosion of how important this life issue is, at times makes me feel hopeless about the future of our society. Apparently there are 55% plus of the Catholics who feel that pro life is simply not that important.

I cannot help but look at Catholics who vote against life, as ones who do not understand their faith. It is like there is a cloud over their eyes.

Is it not obvious that the Democratic platform will not support a candidtate unless they are for abortion? How can any Catholic who studies their faith defend this? Yet, it is almost like the Muslims who do not cry out against the radical Muslims.

In this post that I am responding too, not once does the person say that their party is wrong on the abortion issue.

 

[mary_bobo]

Witness the fact that Pelosi wants Murtha as majority leader and Jayne Hartman was forced out of her committee chairmanship because she was not in support of the put your tail between your legs and run strategy being pushed by the Democrats.

Each and every committee in the United States House is headed by a Pro-abortion Democrat. How any Catholic can find joy and that is beyond me.

I keep hearing that Alysee Hastings will be appointed chair of a committee, he of impeachment for several offenses in Florida. What happened to the most open and ethical that we were told we would get from the new crop in the House? Like I have said before, this is going to be interesting. Let’s see how happy those Independents and Republicans who put them in office are in say, a year.

 

[system]

What is so scary about this post is that many people simply “brush off” the abortion issue.

I haven’t mentioned abortion at all. What I have been doing is trying to give equal time to the culture of corruption since democrat bashing has been going unanswered.

I cannot help but look at Catholics who vote against life, as ones who do not understand their faith. It is like there is a cloud over their eyes.

I did NOT vote against life

Is it not obvious that the Democratic platform will not support a candidtate unless they are for abortion?

There were pro-life Dems in the race last Tuesday.

How can any Catholic who studies their faith defend this?

see above

In this post that I am responding too, not once does the person say that their party is wrong on the abortion issue.

The democratic party is DIVIDED on the abortion issue, just like the other side, eg: republican gov Arnold, or Rudolph Giuliani and others.

Voters on the right are taking the blinders off, and realizing the "pro-Life party just ruled the roost in Executive, legislative, and judicial branches for six years and did nothing to prove they were pro-life.

And, as I keep mentioning because people keep revising history, the number of abortions declined during the previous two democratic administrations, and rose during each republican administration.

So in basic numbers, who has done more to save lives?

This is the part of the thread where people leave, start a new thread, and say the same things they’ve been saying, and nothing changes.

If you are opposed to the democratic party, you should find out what they did RIGHT and not just what they did WRONG.

 

[Richardols]

put your tail between your legs and run strategy being pushed by the Democrats.

Pushed by some Democrats? To be sure. By all Democrats? No. In either case, the electorate has spoken. If it were so supportive of Bush’s policies and direction in Iraq, the GOP would have won the elections. But, it didn’t, and that tells you who wants us to pull out of Iraq.

 

[system]

would that be the same Winston who sent the Black and Tans to Ireland to kill Catholic

I like Winston Churchill, (sometimes) but he did say this:

" The problem with the Irish is that they refuse to be English"

 

[dmelosi]

I haven’t mentioned abortion at all. What I have been doing is trying to give equal time to the culture of corruption since democrat bashing has been going unanswered.

I did NOT vote against life

There were pro-life Dems in the race last Tuesday.
see above

The democratic party is DIVIDED on the abortion issue, just like the other side, eg: republican gov Arnold, or Rudolph Giuliani and others.

Voters on the right are taking the blinders off, and realizing the "pro-Life party just ruled the roost in Executive, legislative, and judicial branches for six years and did nothing to prove they were pro-life.

And, as I keep mentioning because people keep revising history, the number of abortions declined during the previous two democratic administrations, and rose during each republican administration.

So in basic numbers, who has done more to save lives?

This is the part of the thread where people leave, start a new thread, and say the same things they’ve been saying, and nothing changes.

If you are opposed to the democratic party, you should find out what they did RIGHT and not just what they did WRONG.

You can say divided on the abortion issue, but that is like 1 in 10 democratic politicians are prolife and 9 in 10 republicans are prolife, but since neither are 100%, they are equally divided.

In basic numbers, who has done more? You are fooling only yourself with that comment.

The democratic platform as it clearly states is that they are for a womans right to choose.

The republican platform as it clearly states is that they are pro life.

The pro life issue that matters most are the judges appointed, the record is crystal clear.

There may be a good chance that I am get in a little trouble for this, but must say it…you sound much smarter when you say nothing.

 

[Thekla]

What is so scary about this post is that many people simply “brush off” the abortion issue.

To many of us, abortion isn’t an “issue” as much as it is a part of our faith. I don’t think it’s a matter of it being brushed off as you contend. There is concensus among Catholics that life begins at conception and abortion is a mortal sin. Any Catholic woman who has an abortion would likely feel that she had sinned grievously before God and that if she were truly sorry, she could repent and ask for forgiveness.

As Catholics, we often talk about the sin of abortion; I think that’s because we see it as a matter of faith more than a political “issue.” And it’s when abortion becomes political iissue that the concensus among Catholics seems to end.