Catholics and Immigration

[vern_humphrey]

Vern says:

Let me answer the second two questions and throw a little wrinkle into the mix. At my university we frequently hire immigrants to teach in certain areas, primarily because we don’t pay what a US citizen would require to do the same job. The average starting salary for new Ph.Ds in finance is over $100,000 per year. At my school, we don’t pay full professors that much. The result is that five out the last six people we have hired have been immigrants. The one American we hired, we had to fire because he was incompetent. Anyway, we are hiring legal immigrants, but is what we are doing moral? That is, is it moral in this case to hire immigrants because they will work for less?

You raise an interesting point – of course in this case, you are paying more than a living wage, even if you pay less than an American PhD would want. And you are hiring legal immigrants.’’

Would you agree you are using them as a “cheap” source of labor – albeit the term “cheap” is relative?

 

[johnstown_johnn]

As for bishops that disregard America’s immigration lawa and support illegal immigration because they do not agree with the laws of this Country and whether or not we should follow them…

This begs the question:

How many of these bishops would give Holy Communion to abortion politicians?

That should be a guide as to whether or not you need to agree with a bishop or not.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

As for bishops that disregard America’s immigration lawa and support illegal immigration because they do not agree with the laws of this Country and whether or not we should follow them…

The USCCB doesn’t support illegal immigration.

This begs the question:

How many of these bishops would give Holy Communion to abortion politicians?

That should be a guide as to whether or not you need to agree with a bishop or not.

Who are YOU to tell anyone what should be a guide to anything? You are not the teaching Magisterium of the Church, you are just a guy somewhere. The Bishops are part of that Magisterium.

Hmmm…who to listen to…some guy somewhere or those who represent the Magisterium…?

 

[Sheeniac]

War? The death penalty? Are you quite sure?

And please tell me: why in the world would you want to have any opinion which contradicts the Pope’s opinion? How could any person think they are more correct even than the Pope? Incredible!!

Peace,
Meeshy

I am 1000% sure.

Since B16 took pains to publish his new book under his real name, not as Pope, and said people are free to disagree with him, I am sure he wouldn’t be upset about me having my own opinions.

Please do some research before posting your incorrect opinions as fact.

 

[Sheeniac]

One word: Pride.

I think reflecting on the differences between an American Catholic and a Catholic American will reveal quite a bit.

LCMS, How can you presume to look into my heart? Meeshy is not right, and neither are you.

To profess that all Catholics must have the same opinions as the Pope on all things sounds like it comes from a Jack Chick publication. It is certainly not an orthodox position.

 

[Sheeniac]

The USCCB doesn’t support illegal immigration.

Who are YOU to tell anyone what should be a guide to anything? You are not the teaching Magisterium of the Church, you are just a guy somewhere. The Bishops are part of that Magisterium.

Hmmm…who to listen to…some guy somewhere or those who represent the Magisterium…?

The Magesterium isn’t “represented”. It is. And the Magesterium has not issued any infallible statements regarding this.

No individual Bishop is infallible, nor any self-selected subgroup. Given the opposition to Rome on so many liturgical issues, I question anyone who says that the USCCB is representing the Magesterium.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

LCMS, How can you presume to look into my heart? Meeshy is not right, and neither are you.

To profess that all Catholics must have the same opinions as the Pope on all things sounds like it comes from a Jack Chick publication. It is certainly not an orthodox position.

Are we not called to at least religious assent on all matters the Church speaks on? Yes, we are.

Has the Church spoken on the issue of the death penalty in the Catechism? Yes, she has.

Has the Church spoken on the issue of immigration in the United States through our BIshops? Yes, she has.

Does the Church have the authority of Christ? Yes, she does.

I listen to the voice of the shepherd.

Anything else is to put one’s own conscience above the voice of the Church, which seems to me to be pride.

Now, can we disagree on how some of these things should be implemented or taught? Sure.

That’s not what we’re talking about, however. There are people who are saying that they are not bound to listen to the Shepherds of the Church if they don’t feel like it. That’s the dangerous territory I’m talking about.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The Magesterium isn’t “represented”. It is. And the Magesterium has not issued any infallible statements regarding this.

No individual Bishop is infallible, nor any self-selected subgroup. Given the opposition to Rome on so many liturgical issues, I question anyone who says that the USCCB is representing the Magesterium.

You’re somewhat correct.

There’s the ordinary magisterium and the extraordinary magisterium. The USCCB’s declaration, a teaching of the Bishops, is part of the ordinary magisterium which is authoritative but not infallible. We are required to give religious submission of intellect and will to the ordinary magisterium.

The Bishops in the United States have spoken on the issue of immigration reform. They are not supporting illegal immigration and to say otherwise is, frankly, a sin against the truth. They are not supporting “amnesty,” either. Since they have spoken, on the matter, I will listen to that voice.

 

[migurl]

My problem with immigration is not that I don’t like mexicans, in fact I am of mexican decent. My issue is that my great grandmother and her husband came up here and worked hard. They have always paid taxes, she always worked and took care of her children. They were glad to be Americans. THey celebrated Independance Day and Memorial Day. They had a Flag in their yard. Their kids were raised to say the pledge of allegiance and to place their hands on their hearts during it and to remove their hats as well. They have their mexican traditions, and they still eat the same kind of food and have parties on Cinco de Mayo, but they do not bite the hand that feeds them. They wanted to be here and they were willing to become a part of this great country. Nowadays, the immigrants are spitting in our faces. Raising their flags and not wanting to work to get here. They are being sneaky and disrespectful to our country. My family is not happy about it. They worked their butts off to get here and to make lives for themselves, and here there are people hoping the border, geting social security cards, licenses and jobs wihtout even learning to speak English or the laws of this country or even pledging to uphold those laws. My family had nothing to hide when they came here, and they were pround to stand in front of that flag and pledge their alliegance to it, they are offended by the way these modern immagrants act. If you want to take part in this country, if you want a piece of the ‘pie’ you have to be willing to work for it and give it respect. It is really quite arrogant for someone to come here and expect everything to be given to them without them having to work for it. I mean, for crying out loud! The French and Italians that came over here years ago were excited to learn English…they didn’t expect us to spend millions of dollars to print their language on everything or hire people to translate all of the time. Sure, there were schools and translators to help, but not so that they could be lazy and never learn English, but so that they could learn easier and faster.

 

[fgargano]

Hatred or disdain of any person or group, no matter what they have done, is not a Catholic attitude. The immigration issue is a difficult one and we need to approach it as our bishops have approached it: with open hearts and open minds, not anger or hatred.

How often do we actually know why a person has immigrated here illegally? Have we lived in that person’s shoes? Do we really care about that person’s life, other than how it impacts on ours?

I know a Mexican woman who walked through the desert with a baby on her hip and her 3 year old daughter at her side, to escape from her abusive husband, who beat her severely on a regular basis, sometimes to within an inch of her life.

Her parents are not living. She had nowhere to turn. So she walked through the desert and crossed the border into our country, illegally. Do we punish her and send her back? Or do we accept her and try to help her re-order her life?

While I do not support illegal immigration, neither do I support viewing human beings as inferior or criminal because they crossed our border without a visa. We have to put ourselves in their shoes. We have to follow the example of our bishops, who are following the will of Jesus.

As a matter of fact, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is very pro-immigrant, and has set up a special campaign with the title “National Justice for Immigrants,” headed by Bishop Gerald R. Barnes of California. His recommendation for the U.S.? Broad legalization.

Let’s look to our bishops for guidance on this issue, as we do on all issues. Dare we say our opinions are more correct than those of Holy Mother Church??

Please open your hearts, open your minds, and help the poor and disenfranchised among us to retain the dignity they deserve, rather than casting them away as if they are less worthy of God’s love than we Americans.

As I mentioned in my last post, which has been deleted, we are only Americans because those who came before us took the land away from the original inhabitants. Borders, ownership of land, and material posessions are things of this world to which we need not be too closely attached.

Praying for a compassionate nation,
Meeshy

 

[fgargano]

Why does this sound like “the ends justify the means.” The issue is the illegality with which they cross the border and the false identities they assume. Many of them also drive without liability insurance because the claim they can’t afford to purchase insurance. The Bank of Mexico stated that immigrants wired $29 BILLION dollars back to Mexico last year alone. They can afford to wire money to Mexico, but can’t affort insurance of any kind; liability or medical. They overburden our school systems and emergency rooms and we have to foot the bill. When does it end? Why don’t they go back to their home country and march in the streets for a change in their government. Why do we let Mexico get away with exporting their problems to America? They have an oil industry and they have a wealthy ruling class in Mexico. It’s time for the Mexicans to demand a change in their orwn country.
Most of the time all they want to do is work and make money. I don’t hear anything about Naturalization, learning to speak English, learn our our system of government or laws and wanting to blend into American society. It seems that they want to turn America into Mexico or some other South American country.
If they really want to become American citizens, let them go through LEGAL immigration like Millions of Europeans did. They need to be screened for criminal backgrounds, diseases etc, just like all the other legal immigrants did. Stop demanding bi-liongual education and use English immersion which worked for millions of other immigrants.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

If they really want to become American citizens, let them go through LEGAL immigration like Millions of Europeans did. They need to be screened for criminal backgrounds, diseases etc, just like all the other legal immigrants did. Stop demanding bi-liongual education and use English immersion which worked for millions of other immigrants.

If the system was the same as it was for all those Europeans, we wouldn’t have an issue with illegal immigration. Do you know what the immigration process was for those people? Maybe a 2 or 3 day wait on Ellis Island or another entry point for the majority. For those who had to be quarantined, another month or two. Less than 5% were rejected for admission.

 

[Ituyu]

Despite what LA RAZA, MALDEF, the ACLU and many radical Socialist groups want everyone to believe, most American Hispanics oppose illegal immigration and AMNESTY for those who have entered into this country illegally

YouTube was considered inappropriate on these threads some time ago. I have noticed that it is now being used. My problem is that I cannot view the video on my computer partly because I’m on dial up.

But how did you come to the conclusion that the above groups are “radical Socialist groups”? AND, why bring it up here? I’ve seen Lobbyists such as the Heritage Foundation used here but I haven’t seen any posts quoting those other sources recently on this thread.

It rewards those who have violated our laws, and lead a life of deception, theft, and crime in order to remain here and work here illegally.

 

[mary_bobo]

If the system was the same as it was for all those Europeans, we wouldn’t have an issue with illegal immigration. Do you know what the immigration process was for those people? Maybe a 2 or 3 day wait on Ellis Island or another entry point for the majority. For those who had to be quarantined, another month or two. Less than 5% were rejected for admission.

That was when the country needed to build up the population and before the federal government promised everyone a rose garden provided by the state. Times have changed.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

That was when the country needed to build up the population and before the federal government promised everyone a rose garden provided by the state. Times have changed.

Then perhaps the argument that “people should come like the Europeans did” is moot?

Yes, I think it is as the conditions aren’t even close to similar.

 

[Sheeniac]

If the USCCB supports the plan as presented by Bush, I am not happy. They (fedgov) can say it isn’t an amnesty, but that is seriously open to interpretation.

In this week’s Catholic Register, they feature an article about Card. Mahoney’s position. If someone is trying to persuade me that I shouldn’t be against illegal immigration because hispanics deserve fair treatmen just like anyone else, it’s an underhanded statement to make. That person assumes that the people who are of a different opinion are racist. It’s a strawman argument.

From the USCCB:

To educate Catholics and others of good will about the benefits of immigration and the benefits to the nation;​

(Who is arguing against that point?)

To strengthen public opinion about the positive contributions of immigrants;​

(Who is arguing against that point?)

To advocate for just immigration laws which promote legal status and legal pathways for migrant workers and their families;​

(Who is arguing against that point?)

To organize Catholic legal service networks to assist immigrants to access the benefits of reforms.​

(Certainly a valid function of the Church)

One of the goals of the campaign is to try to change laws “so that immigrants can support their families in dignity, families can remain united, and the human rights of all are respected,” Cardinal McCarrick stated.

---

This addresses none of the arguments that anti-illegal immigrant supporters (I don’t think that came out right but you get my drift) discuss.

The USCCB then gets involved in political matters and as we all know, legislation that gets passed and then implemented is rarely exactly what we hear about in the news.

So do I disagree with their stated position? No. Do I support the ‘non-amesty’ amnesty? No. Do I presume to have the right aswer to the problems? No, but I know that this “reform” isn’t right either.

 

[Nino]

Hatred or disdain of any person or group, no matter what they have done, is not a Catholic attitude. The immigration issue is a difficult one and we need to approach it as our bishops have approached it: with open hearts and open minds, not anger or hatred.

How often do we actually know why a person has immigrated here illegally? Have we lived in that person’s shoes? Do we really care about that person’s life, other than how it impacts on ours?

I know a Mexican woman who walked through the desert with a baby on her hip and her 3 year old daughter at her side, to escape from her abusive husband, who beat her severely on a regular basis, sometimes to within an inch of her life.

Her parents are not living. She had nowhere to turn. So she walked through the desert and crossed the border into our country, illegally. Do we punish her and send her back? Or do we accept her and try to help her re-order her life?

While I do not support illegal immigration, neither do I support viewing human beings as inferior or criminal because they crossed our border without a visa. We have to put ourselves in their shoes. We have to follow the example of our bishops, who are following the will of Jesus.

As a matter of fact, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is very pro-immigrant, and has set up a special campaign with the title “National Justice for Immigrants,” headed by Bishop Gerald R. Barnes of California. His recommendation for the U.S.? Broad legalization.

Let’s look to our bishops for guidance on this issue, as we do on all issues. Dare we say our opinions are more correct than those of Holy Mother Church??

Please open your hearts, open your minds, and help the poor and disenfranchised among us to retain the dignity they deserve, rather than casting them away as if they are less worthy of God’s love than we Americans.

As I mentioned in my last post, which has been deleted, we are only Americans because those who came before us took the land away from the original inhabitants. Borders, ownership of land, and material posessions are things of this world to which we need not be too closely attached.

Praying for a compassionate nation,
Meeshy

 

[Nino]

“…let us say to the immigrant not that we hope he will learn english…but that he has got to learn it!Let the immigrant who does not learn it go back…He has got to consider the interest of the United States or he should not stay here. He must be made to see that his opportunities in this country depend upon his knowing English and observing American standards.The employer cannot be permitted to regard him only as an industrial asset.”

-Theordore Roosevelt…to the National Americanization Committee…1916…

regards Nino…

(remember this great President won the Nobel peace prize and earned the Congressional medal of Honor…

 

[LJN21]

I gotta wonder how much change could be made in our nations laws regarding the the murder of innocent babies with the effort the USCCB are putting in illegal immigration.

How about focusing on a real travesty of natural law instead of focusing on the politically correct.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I gotta wonder how much change could be made in our nations laws regarding the the murder of innocent babies with the effort the USCCB are putting in illegal immigration.

How about focusing on a real travesty of natural law instead of focusing on the politically correct.

Had the Catholic Bishops stood up on their hind legs back in '73, abortion would not now be the law of the land – and every Catholic elected official would oppose killing the unborn.