Catholics and Immigration

  • Thread starter Thread starter meeshy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I gotta wonder how much change could be made in our nations laws regarding the the murder of innocent babies with the effort the USCCB are putting in illegal immigration.

How about focusing on a real travesty of natural law instead of focusing on the politically correct.
Considering the geometric increase in emotional levels when immigration is discussed, usually in the against column, I would hardly call support of immigration reform that includes legalization to be “politically correct.” It’s about as politically incorrect as you can get. On the other hand, it is in obedience to the concept of “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.”

Anyway, why can’t we do BOTH?

Why must it be either/or?
 
Hi, I’m new to this but have a strong opinion. you must respect the rule of LAW,all the immigration from Europe was through lawful means as was most if not all before that time, the issue today is UNLAWFUL immigration ! and Catholics must stand for lawful means of all peoples moveing throughout all nations. ( my spell check did not work, sorry )
 
Considering the geometric increase in emotional levels when immigration is discussed, usually in the against column, I would hardly call support of immigration reform that includes legalization to be “politically correct.” It’s about as politically incorrect as you can get. On the other hand, it is in obedience to the concept of “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.”

Anyway, why can’t we do BOTH?

Why must it be either/or?
Well we aren’t doing both.

Abortion is sidelined and even debated in some “Catholic” circles. Politicians that are publicly “pro-choice” are considered to be Catholics in good standing. This is a matter of faith and morals and blatantly contrary to natural law. It is inherently evil.

Illegal immigration is a matter of national policy. There is vague argument that it is against natural law yet no one can make a clear reference as to how. Yet your are treated as a bad Catholic for believing our nation should make people obey this law.
 
The media uses the lesser figure of approx. 12 million and yet ANOTHER figure is 20 million illegals.

Both political Parties are going with the lesser because they know the greater number threatens the culture of America.

On socio-political matters (abortion the exception) Catholics DO NOT have to aline their beliefs with bishops.

Bishops are insulated from traumas like neighborhoods changing and social norms and culture being evaporated.

Personally, since all of this and the War I am no longer attached to either party. They are shovelling the last scoop of dirt on the grave of middle America.

No good is going to come of all this illegal immigration. It is going to change the way we live in America. Goals for our children will be drastically changed and schools will be an alien cultural meeting place.

We cannot imagine how our lives will be altered.🙂
 
Considering the geometric increase in emotional levels when immigration is discussed, usually in the against column, I would hardly call support of immigration reform that includes legalization to be “politically correct.”
That’s where Political Correctness comes in – it’s a strategy to cut off debate of controversial issues by imposing a “Poltically Correct” position.
It’s about as politically incorrect as you can get. On the other hand, it is in obedience to the concept of “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.”
Translate that into terms of the present debate.
Anyway, why can’t we do BOTH?

Why must it be either/or?
I don’t know why we can’t do both, but I know we bloody well aren’t doing both. The Catholic Bishops as a whole are not very visible in the abortion debate.
 
An illegal alien raped and kidnapped a little girl whose parents
immigrated legally from Mexico, they are against illegal immigrants and so am I.
Criminals are not hard working Church goers, they are simply criminals.
The corrupt Mexican gov’t is now legalizing abortion and your example also illustrates how they feel about women.
Breaking the laws of the United States will do nothing to improve the lives of women and children in either Mexico or the United States.
Mexicans need to fix their own country which is very wealthy in natural resources, when immigrants are treated fairly when sneaking over the border into Mexico from other Latin countries perhaps they themselves will get a fair deal elsewhere.
Mexico is harsh to illegal immigrants in their own country, they need to fix Mexico not ruin America.
We should have any illegal immagrants get abortions, that will make you feel better? Forced abortions will justify cutting down on them. Isn’t that right? You must be for that solution to the “problem”
 
That’s where Political Correctness comes in – it’s a strategy to cut off debate of controversial issues by imposing a “Poltically Correct” position.
And a poster supporting the ideologically right-wing side of the issue that made the call first. How surprising.
I don’t know why we can’t do both, but I know we bloody well aren’t doing both. The Catholic Bishops as a whole are not very visible in the abortion debate.
Visible enough, yes? Is that what you mean?

There’s, let’s see, a website dedicated to this issue of Immigration Reform and little else that I see, except perhaps a Bishop making a statement now and again. Not much.

Abortion is a pretty clear cut issue and I hear about it frequently here and in my own parish. The thing I see, however, is that people of an right-wing ideological position use abortion to move all other issues out of the way, at the expense of everything else the Church stands for, including all other points of social justice.

I think we can do BOTH and be effective. What we must do is divorce ourselves from a right-wing ideology and political parties. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Gospel and Christianity whatsoever. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. (Left-wing ideology doesn’t either, so don’t even go there!). Perhaps we should be both/and Catholics instead of either/or Protestants in our thinking about these matters.

It’s not about either Socialism or Capitalism.
It’s not about the poor are poor because they made bad choices and the rich are all good, decent hard working people who are pure and honest.
It’s not about either undocumented immigrants are evil, wicked people who want to destroy America or they are all decent, hard working people who are pure and innocent.
It’s not about America is pure and holy and the New Jerusalem or America is a wicked nation founded by satan.
It’s not about Republican or Democrat.

The only exception is abortion. Yes, you are either pro-life or you’re not, but even on that issue, there are degrees. How pro-life are you? What drives your pro-life belief? Is it a true love and respect for all human life from conception to natural death or is it a minimalistic view that only worries about human life from conception to birth and then from diagnosis to natural death (the political hot-button issues)? These are the questions that I concern myself with.
 
And a poster supporting the ideologically right-wing side of the issue that made the call first. How surprising.
Well, I gave all you an opportunity to confess, but you tried to pretend it isn’t PC.😛
Visible enough, yes? Is that what you mean?

There’s, let’s see, a website dedicated to this issue of Immigration Reform and little else that I see, except perhaps a Bishop making a statement now and again. Not much.

Abortion is a pretty clear cut issue and I hear about it frequently here and in my own parish. The thing I see, however, is that people of an right-wing ideological position use abortion to move all other issues out of the way, at the expense of everything else the Church stands for, including all other points of social justice.
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
I think we can do BOTH and be effective.
But we aren’t doing both.
What we must do is divorce ourselves from a right-wing ideology and political parties.
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Gospel and Christianity whatsoever. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. (Left-wing ideology doesn’t either, so don’t even go there!). Perhaps we should be both/and Catholics instead of either/or Protestants in our thinking about these matters.
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
It’s not about either Socialism or Capitalism.
It’s not about the poor are poor because they made bad choices and the rich are all good, decent hard working people who are pure and honest.
It’s not about either undocumented immigrants are evil, wicked people who want to destroy America or they are all decent, hard working people who are pure and innocent.
It’s not about America is pure and holy and the New Jerusalem or America is a wicked nation founded by satan.
It’s not about Republican or Democrat.
Why do you bring all this up? What’s your point?
The only exception is abortion. Yes, you are either pro-life or you’re not, but even on that issue, there are degrees. How pro-life are you? What drives your pro-life belief? Is it a true love and respect for all human life from conception to natural death or is it a minimalistic view that only worries about human life from conception to birth and then from diagnosis to natural death (the political hot-button issues)? These are the questions that I concern myself with.
So you judge others based on what you think their motivations are? And pin labels on them?
 
The discussion is about ILLEGAL immigration. No, we don’t NEED illegal aliens.

They represent just 2-5% of our overall population and despite the false claims of the industrie that exploit them to the detriment of American workers, in no labor sector in which illegal aliens are employed are they anywhere near the majority.

Is this a new economic theory?
Construction not agriculture is the number one industry where they are employed now and represent just 20% of the workers (taking jobs from tradesmen, union workers, etc.). So when you say that they are doing jobs Americans won’t do, you are insulting the 80% of the other American workers doing those jobs.
While illegal aliens are just 2-5% of our overall population, they represent 29% of the federal prison population, of people convicted of violent crimes of rape, murder, assault, robbery, kidnapping etc.
This by now should be an altogether recognizable distortion and exaggeration found on many ANTI-IMMIGRANT sites.

FEDERAL PRISONS mostly house persons convicted of drug related crimes and those charged with immigration violations. The best studies conducted over a period of 100 years clearly indicate that immigrants, legal and “illegal” are UNDER REPRESENTED in our prison systems BECAUSE they have a lower crime rate than native born citizens. If one were to perform a survey of ALL prisons we would find the same thing.
cjtoday.com/pdf/7cjt0105.pdf

latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-immigstudy28feb28,1,507421.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
BTW: I’m Hispanic and I can see the reality of this situation
.

While I don’t believe that Hispanic roots means that your arguments have any more merit than the next guy, You prove that Hispanics are indeed learning English and that a Hispanic heritage does not dictate your political perspective. That is much of what is said here:

Language has seldom functioned as a symbolic identifier in the United States, as an emblem of national pride or a badge of exclusivity. America’s founders generally espoused an ideological brand of nationalism that stressed agreement on democratic principles rather than bonds of ethnicity (Morris, 1987; Heath, 1992). Exceptions to this pattern have occurred, first, when attempts were made to differentiate American English from the dialect of the mother country (usually a preoccupation of literati); and second, when language restrictions served as a surrogate for other goals, such as religious intolerance, economic advantage, political repression, or racial discrimination.
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/anatomy.htm
To solve the problems that occur in the sending countries one must put international pressure on those countries to do right by their citizens, not demand that we become and continue to be the employment and social services agencies for the underclass that these immoral, inhumane elitist, oligarchies like Mexico have abandoned.
Whatever all that means and however the world deals with Globalization, it will not happen in time to affect the “illegal” or solve our demand for immigrant labor of today.
 
It’s about as politically incorrect as you can get. On the other hand, it is in obedience to the concept of “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.”

Anyway, why can’t we do BOTH?

Why must it be either/or?
The PC viewpoint is subjective.

Who is a stranger and what obligation do we as Catholics owe the stranger?

Who is a brother and what obligation do we as Catholics owe our brother?

Does the stranger or brother have any obligation themselves?

Does being an legal citizen of a nation have any bearing on these obligations?

Which of these would be the stranger you speak about?
a.) Sandra Rivas?
b.) Francisco Herrera?
c.) Mohamad Ibrahim Shnewer?
d.) Aisha?
e.) Karen Rothstein?
 
Well, I gave all you an opportunity to confess, but you tried to pretend it isn’t PC.😛
Political correctness is what is politically popular, not this made-up nonsense that people on certain radio shows says it is.

Right now, it is VERY politically correct to be anti-immigrant.
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
I’m not, I’m talking about an ideology, not people.

By the way, it’s label, not lable. Edumacation? 😉
But we aren’t doing both.
No, we’re attacking a powerless minority on both counts.
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
I’m not, I’m talking about an ideology, not people.

By the way, it’s label, not lable. Edumacation? 😉
Why do you find it necessary to lable others as “right-wing?”
I’m not, I’m talking about an ideology, not people.

By the way, it’s label, not lable. Edumacation? 😉
Why do you bring all this up? What’s your point?
I’m tired of this unquestioning and strict adherence to an amoral and anti-christian political ideology masquerading itself as good, moral political thought.
So you judge others based on what you think their motivations are? And pin labels on them?
No. This is where your analysis is wrong.

First, I am talking about ideology. We, as Christians, aren’t married to an ideology, we are the Bride of Christ and our first allegience is to Him and our brethren in Christ. Period.

Second, I am asking questions. I don’t want the answers. These are questions I ask myself and I ask politicians when I review their speeches.

If that’ a problem for you, then I’m sorry but that’s how I think.
 
The PC viewpoint is subjective.

Who is a stranger and what obligation do we as Catholics owe the stranger?
Read Matthew 25:31-46
Who is a brother and what obligation do we as Catholics owe our brother?
Read Luke 10:25-37.
Does the stranger or brother have any obligation themselves?
Yes, the same obligation we do. Then again, is that any of your concern?

Check out John 20:20-23.
Does being an legal citizen of a nation have any bearing on these obligations?
What is a legal citizen? I know what a citizen is and have never heard an illegal one.
Which of these would be the stranger you speak about?
a.) Sandra Rivas?
A murderer? No.
A workingman? Yes.
A GASP United States citizen who was involved in plotting to commit an act of terra? (Boo! Boo! Be afraid! Boo!) No.
A woman who is gang raped in Darfur? Yes.
This final link is to an anti-immigrant web site that I would say is rather…questionable in reliablity. I don’t know if this Karen Rothstein exists in real life or is made-up to help advance the anti-immigrant agenda. A news source would be more credible.
 
40.png
LCMS_No_More:
Quite the comedian aren’t you?
Read Matthew 25:31-46
Yes, I’m familiar with it though it does not answer the question though your answers below do to a degree. The stranger is not just anybody, but someone with certain and specific qualities.
Read Luke 10:25-37.
I am familiar with this one too. So a neighbor is a brother? I know your point is the showing mercy part to all, and mercy in that sense is not being denied to the illegal community this debate is about.
Yes, the same obligation we do. Then again, is that any of your concern?
Of course it is my concern. If they share the same obligations we do, why do you excuse their failure to uphold it?
Check out John 20:20-23.
Another favorite of mine. What does that have to do with obligation in the context of the question?
What is a legal citizen? I know what a citizen is and have never heard an illegal one.
Citizen: a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it.
Legal: conforming to or permitted by law or established rules
Illegal: not according to or authorized by law
A murderer? No.
She was the illegal girlfriend of the illegal murderer with a anchor baby out of wedlock.
A workingman? Yes.
Your obligation to him is only if he sneaks accross the border?
A GASP United States citizen who was involved in plotting to commit an act of terra? (Boo! Boo! Be afraid! Boo!) No.
Why won’t you visit him in prison? Is he not innocent until proven guilty?
A woman who is gang raped in Darfur? Yes.
Too bad she has an ocean between us or she could hike through the desert so you could help her. What a humanitarian!
This final link is to an anti-immigrant web site that I would say is rather…questionable in reliablity. I don’t know if this Karen Rothstein exists in real life or is made-up to help advance the anti-immigrant agenda. A news source would be more credible.
Ah yes, the old “your source is a hack” dodge. The was another link in the story.
 
Quite the comedian aren’t you?
Nope. I have high standards.
Yes, I’m familiar with it though it does not answer the question though your answers below do to a degree. The stranger is not just anybody, but someone with certain and specific qualities.
Indeed? Jesus didn’t give any specificity there. He said, “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.” Period. He didn’t give any other definition except for “the least of these.” Perhaps there’s some Greek that you can understand while standing on your head while reciting the Gettysburg Adress on Thursday at noon (PDT) that gives some additional insights?
I am familiar with this one too. So a neighbor is a brother? I know your point is the showing mercy part to all, and mercy in that sense is not being denied to the illegal community this debate is about.
Sure it is. You just don’t want to recognize this fact.
Of course it is my concern. If they share the same obligations we do, why do you excuse their failure to uphold it?
Those who can do pay taxes and would otherwise have the correct documentation if the system weren’t as broken to the point of unsustainability as it has been over the past 20 years.
She was the illegal girlfriend of the illegal murderer with a anchor baby out of wedlock.
An “anchor-baby.” How very pro-life of you.
Your obligation to him is only if he sneaks accross the border?
No, in fact, I’d love to see some progressive reform in Mexico as well as here in the United States. The truth is, Mexico is a capitalist’s DREAM…little to no regulation to get in the way of worshiping the god of the capitalist, I mean making money.
Why won’t you visit him in prison? Is he not innocent until proven guilty?
I don’t live in that part of the country. If he is innocent, theoretically, he’ll be released. I say theoretically since habeus corpus is a thing of the past.
Too bad she has an ocean between us or she could hike through the desert so you could help her. What a humanitarian!
I have been for intervention in Darfur for a long time. Too bad we’re involved in this war for “freedom” (read freedom for multinational corporations) in Iraq that’s taking all our attention.
Ah yes, the old “your source is a hack” dodge. The was another link in the story.
Okay, so she does exist. The rest of the story speaks to the Bush administration’s continued attempts to dismantle the social safety net by denying the continuance of unemployment benefits. I didn’t see the scapegoating if “illegals” that your anti-immigrant link put forward.
 
Nope. I have high standards.
Or a hypocrite.
Indeed? Jesus didn’t give any specificity there. He said, “I was a stranger and you welcomed Me.” Period. He didn’t give any other definition except for “the least of these.” Perhaps there’s some Greek that you can understand while standing on your head while reciting the Gettysburg Adress on Thursday at noon (PDT) that gives some additional insights?
Indeed. Define “these” (brothers of mine).
Sure it is. You just don’t want to recognize this fact.
Did you miss this part? For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven…

How is the will of God being done by the immigrants- being fruitfull and multiplying? Maybe, but is that what Christ meant in the passage?
Those who can do pay taxes and would otherwise have the correct documentation if the system weren’t as broken to the point of unsustainability as it has been over the past 20 years.
You forget Reagan fixed it in 1986, except that no one bothered to enforce it. The only broken part about the law is teh lack of enforcement, not the law itself.
An “anchor-baby.” How very pro-life of you.
How very deflective of you. The way the 14th is applied is what is broken in the system. So will you change your answer from no to yes now?
No, in fact, I’d love to see some progressive reform in Mexico as well as here in the United States. The truth is, Mexico is a capitalist’s DREAM…little to no regulation to get in the way of worshiping the god of the capitalist, I mean making money.
So when are you moving there to correct their problems? You are obligated to help the stranger, yes?
I don’t live in that part of the country. If he is innocent, theoretically, he’ll be released. I say theoretically since habeus corpus is a thing of the past.
Yes, I’ve noticed your compassion is limited to those who can make it to you. Not for legal US citizens has it been suspended. One of the benefits of being a legal US citizen, though the suspension for others is not as widespread or agregious as you claim. What would you suggest we do with a Jordanian found in Afghanistan fighting US forces? Don’t answer, it’ll hijack the thread and get messy with more of your illogic.
I have been for intervention in Darfur for a long time. Too bad we’re involved in this war for “freedom” (read freedom for multinational corporations) in Iraq that’s taking all our attention.
Yes, too bad the UN, the French & Germans, Russians, and Chinese prefered their business interests over the Iraqis or it might not be in the shape it is.
Okay, so she does exist. The rest of the story speaks to the Bush administration’s continued attempts to dismantle the social safety net by denying the continuance of unemployment benefits. I didn’t see the scapegoating if “illegals” that your anti-immigrant link put forward.
Do you always whine like this?
 
Other countries have destroyed their economies. So their citizens have come to the United States looking for relief.

Politicians and bureaucrats are now espousing that the United States embrace the very policies that destroyed the economies of those other countries.

The United States should be exporting the very American version of capitalism that has been responsible for creating the prosperity that everyone comes to the United States to seek.

The United States should reject the inroads of Socialism for many reasons, one of which is that Socialism destroys prosperous economies and substitutes the command economy that has destroyed so many countries in the world.

Interested persons should visit www.heritage.org and review the various articles there.
Heritage Foundation are part of the John Birch Society. A vile source. Abortion is the answer nd sterilization
 
So-called “anti-Immigration” is really a perverse use of the term.

Illegal immigration is not an opportunity to help underpriviledged but rather is an invasion on the structure built for a population commensurate with a certain point in time. being deluged by 20 million illegals that use the hospitals emergency rooms to get medical attention puts a strain on the system whereby American citizens are denied admittance because of overcrowding.

There is no justice or fairness in this situation. This is not a case of lack of charity but rather a case of survival.

The history of Mexico and its leadership failed the people. Mexico has natural resources enough to raise the standard of living there and provide jobs.

Automobile companies have assembly plants there along with other industry. The problem is the Mexican leadership and American is being invaded.

American families will soon have less hope for their children’s futures because the school system is being toppled and the society in general will be turned upside down.

There has to be some sanity in looking at this. If America goes down–nobody benefits.🙂
 
So-called “anti-Immigration” is really a perverse use of the term.

Illegal immigration is not an opportunity to help underpriviledged but rather is an invasion on the structure built for a population commensurate with a certain point in time. being deluged by 20 million illegals that use the hospitals emergency rooms to get medical attention puts a strain on the system whereby American citizens are denied admittance because of overcrowding.

There is no justice or fairness in this situation. This is not a case of lack of charity but rather a case of survival.

The history of Mexico and its leadership failed the people. Mexico has natural resources enough to raise the standard of living there and provide jobs.

Automobile companies have assembly plants there along with other industry. The problem is the Mexican leadership and American is being invaded.

American families will soon have less hope for their children’s futures because the school system is being toppled and the society in general will be turned upside down.

There has to be some sanity in looking at this. If America goes down–nobody benefits.🙂
well said!!!
 
So-called “anti-Immigration” is really a perverse use of the term.

Illegal immigration is not an opportunity to help underpriviledged but rather is an invasion on the structure built for a population commensurate with a certain point in time. being deluged by 20 million illegals that use the hospitals emergency rooms to get medical attention puts a strain on the system whereby American citizens are denied admittance because of overcrowding.

There is no justice or fairness in this situation. This is not a case of lack of charity but rather a case of survival.

The history of Mexico and its leadership failed the people. Mexico has natural resources enough to raise the standard of living there and provide jobs.

Automobile companies have assembly plants there along with other industry. The problem is the Mexican leadership and American is being invaded.

American families will soon have less hope for their children’s futures because the school system is being toppled and the society in general will be turned upside down.

There has to be some sanity in looking at this. If America goes down–nobody benefits.🙂
Actually the US benefits from immigration thus the US future is stronger when immigration is present. Second the 20 million is a larger number than others think is correct, however if you document 20 million illegal immigrants at an emergency room that would certainly bolster your comments. BTW you may want to back read my eariler posting, the US children are in financial trouble if they stop immigration
 
Actually the US benefits from immigration thus the US future is stronger when immigration is present. Second the 20 million is a larger number than others think is correct, however if you document 20 million illegal immigrants at an emergency room that would certainly bolster your comments. BTW you may want to back read my eariler posting, the US children are in financial trouble if they stop immigration
Since we are on opposite outlooks on this matter, I don’t think I will go to your earlier posts.

We see this from different perspectives. God Bless you, Tex and Peace be with you. 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top