Catholics and Immigration

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LCMS_No_More said:
Wow, a personal attack. Guess what that means. 😃

Plonk
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**how sad tht people are so closed minded.
for a bit of humor…true story…
i used to be friends with a self professed: ‘rabid, feminist atheist’.
strangely, we got along pretty well.🙂
anyway…she knew i was joining the church and there wasn’t a day that went by she wasn’t telling me about this crime, that abuse etc… my answer was always the same: men sin; the Church can not.
finally she tried the old chestnut about all religions (especially catholic) being cults and how the catholic church contucts ‘secret’ rituals…
my answer: so? unless the pope tells me to drink poisoned kool-aid and feed it to my babies…i don’t care.
right before my profession of faith ceremony i commented that i was nervous because the priest and sister in charge of my rcia group refused to tell us what to expect. other than the responses we were to give, we were told nothing else.
this was like throwing gasoline on a fire with her.
proof positive that those secret rituals were true at last!!
AFTER the service i told her that the ‘secret’ part was the simple sealing of our minds, eyes, mouth, heart, hands and feet so that we would think, see, speak, love/live, work and walk the gossip of Christ.
(it was QUITE moving by the way and HAD we known what to expect, we would have been less likey to just allow our emotions to FEEL the presence of Christ that night).
HER response???
well what else WOULD you say? you’re one of THEM now!:rotfl:
**
 
Illegal immigration threatens Middle America. It is not the Bill gateses or the Donald Trumps that are threatened it is the middle-Americans…you know, the ones that work and pay taxes, save and skrimp for their children’s future; serve in the military; the soccer moms; the ones that do charity work…that will be ALL GONE soon !

Both political parties have sat on top of middle Americans for many generations and they (midddle Ams) somehow managed to survive.

But the deathblow is illegal immigration totally out of control will be the last nail in the coffin of middle Americans.

Wake up Ameirca. The future of your children is in peril.

When a Nation that supports killing the unborn; same-sex marriages; (things that middle Americans confront every day) the final hit is illegal immigration.

We have no chance to keep our culture with this as the final blow.

Charity has always come from Middle America but an invasion is something else.

__
Peace be to all.
 
Wow. This issue is so serious and contraversial right now, I think all Catholics need to step back and take a deep breath.

The first thing we need to realize, as brothers and sisters in the Lord, is that this issue has a great ability to divide us if we are not very careful. We should do all we can to preserve the unity among us – even though we all will not agree on how specifically to deal with illegal immigration.

Let me say first off that I am for Legal Immigration. We are a country of immigrants, and most if not all, immigrants come here with a Dream in their hearts. So I believe Americans, therefore Catholics in America, should continue to foster that Dream – it liberates the most enslaved souls, and liberation comes from God.

Here is the delemma. Sovereign countries are entitled to have laws, and institutions that ensure those laws are followed, in order to protect their sovereignty. Laws also create Order and every Civil society is comprised of laws - and the consequences for breaking those laws.

America is a unique country, unlike any other country on the face of this earth. Everyone would like to come here. (And a few would like to leave! 😛 ) Then why, why do they want to come in mass numbers? Not just to obtain freedom from oppression, BUT to live a peaceful society, and next to law abiding citizens. Safety. Security. For many this is the reason.

IF we allow our laws to be broken without consequences, does that make us continue to be a country that can offer the American Dream. No, in fact, it disintegrates our society and destroys our country.

What takes real courage from Catholics, and the clergy in particular, is to call the Mexican government into alignment with the Gospel. It is to speak bold-facedly about the Corruption, not only at the higher levels, but most importantly at the mid-levels of government – that force the very poorest of the poor to have to flee their homeland.

When a government fails to protect its most vulnerable, defenseless women and children, Should not that government be singled out by all nations and clergy of all religions as unacceptable. In fact, that government is deplorable.

Mexico has deep-seated problems that breaking our laws and tearing down our society, will not benefit it or America.

As Catholics, we are called to stand up to the corrupt Mexican government – to raise them to our standards, not lower our standards to theirs.
 
There has to be some sanity in looking at this. If America goes down–nobody benefits.
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WHICH IS WHY AN EQUITABLE LEGALIZATION PROCESS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED THROUGH IMMIGRATION REFORM. ALL OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION IS EXPERIENCING** DECLINE. **WE ARE THE EXCEPTION BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION, LEGAL AND “ILLEGAL”. FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY CAUSE, OUR SITUATION WOULD BE WORSE WITHOUT THEM. IF AMERICA “GOES DOWN”, IT WON’T BE BECAUSE OF WORKING PEOPLE.

IMMIGRATION HAS ITS OWN BUILT-IN CONTROLS THAT HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATED EMPIRICALLY. BECAUSE WE ATTEMPTED TO OBSTRUCT NATURAL MARKET FORCES, WE NEED IMMIGRATION REFORM. DON’T BLAME THE “ILLEGAL” FOR BEING SUBJECT TO NATURAL LAW. PUT THE BLAME ON THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR CLOSING THE DOOR TO THE LEGAL IMMIGRATION WE NEEDED IN ORDER TO MEET OUR LABOR NEEDS.

FEAR-MONGERING HAS ALWAYS REARED ITS UGLY HEAD THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY ESPECIALLY DURING TIMES OF WAR AND ECONOMIC DEPRESSION. THESE ARE NOT THOSE TIMES!! OUR STANDARD OF LIVING, IF ANYTHING, IS BETTER THAN IT WOULD BE WITHOUT THEM.
 
LCMS_No_More said:
Wow, a personal attack. Guess what that means. 😃

Plonk
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Do tell what that means to you.

I will tell you what your response means to me. You can call me a racist for my views, but I am not offended because it is not true. You can call me anti-immigrant; again, I would not be offended because it is not true. Do you think I am a fear monger, isolationist, bigot? You can say all sorts of untrue things about me to stop the debate and refuse to answer the reasonable questions posed to you, but it is you who stop the debate because your sensibilities are bruised when your logic and misguided positions are examined and shown to be without legal, or Scripture support.

Maybe hypocrite is too strong a word to describe your position as you have stated thus far. Maybe I assumed too early. Let’s find out.

With respect to a neighbor, brother or stranger: You first say there is no distincton between them due to your high standards, but then do declare some of those I listed were not. You claim Christ made no distinction between them, but that too was shown to be in error. If not a hypocrite, what do you call it?

Would you give $10,000 to a homeless man?
Yes if he is homeless to no fault of his own like loosing his job to an illegal immigrant
No if he is a alcoholic
Yes if he is a poor Mexican immigrant illegally in the US
No if he is poor African in Africa

If you could give that money to only one, who would you choose?
a.) Sandra Rivas?
b.) Francisco Herrera?
c.) Mohamad Ibrahim Shnewer?
d.) Aisha?
e.) Karen Rothstein?

How did you make that decision because that is the debate at hand: a limited resource, many in need?

Me…? I’d give it to d.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Illegal immigration threatens Middle America. It is not the Bill gateses or the Donald Trumps that are threatened it is the middle-Americans…you know, the ones that work and pay taxes, save and skrimp for their children’s future; serve in the military; the soccer moms; the ones that do charity work…that will be ALL GONE soon !

Both political parties have sat on top of middle Americans for many generations and they (midddle Ams) somehow managed to survive.

But the deathblow is illegal immigration totally out of control will be the last nail in the coffin of middle Americans.

Wake up Ameirca. The future of your children is in peril.

When a Nation that supports killing the unborn; same-sex marriages; (things that middle Americans confront every day) the final hit is illegal immigration.

We have no chance to keep our culture with this as the final blow.

Charity has always come from Middle America but an invasion is something else.

__
Peace be to all.
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Here are a few people, 500 economists, with a different view:

independent.org/newsroom/news_detail.asp?newsID=74

NONE of it adds up to an invasion or loss of the middle class due to immigrants, legal or otherwise.
 
America is being overwhelmed. There are no sites that can just wisk that away. It’s a reality and threatens America as we know it.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
America is being overwhelmed. There are no sites that can just wisk that away. It’s a reality and threatens America as we know it.
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Actually America is being improved in all states. So what if the culture is improved too.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
Actually America is being improved in all states. So what if the culture is improved too.
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“Improved” is in the eye of the beholder. Middle America is threatened to go out of existance. This is what is called Culture Wars. It’s a reality.

We are already primed for caution on certain words not to be spoken; our thoughts are being shaped by the politically correct (not all of us, but some). and degrees of behavior being acceptable. We are losing our sense of sin as a result of movies, and fear thinking against what is laid out by the establishment…it’s called “dumbing down.”

Our culture is in danger of being extinct and that does not foretell of a promising future. We are being forced to be who we do not want to be.

Families are seeing a bleek future for their children because alien demands will be forthcoming and preferential treatment will close the doors in the faces of middle Americans who have sustained this Country. Laws will only apply to the law-abiding.

Illegal immigration is unfairly weighted to one group.

This is not America anymore. Native-born Americans are being decimated. This bill is the final shovelful of dirt on middle America.

Kennedy-McCain are the authors of Death to the Middle Americans."
It is a cohersive bill.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
“Improved” is in the eye of the beholder. Middle America is threatened to go out of existance. This is what is called Culture Wars. It’s a reality.

We are already primed for caution on certain words not to be spoken; our thoughts are being shaped by the politically correct (not all of us, but some). and degrees of behavior being acceptable. We are losing our sense of sin as a result of movies, and fear thinking against what is laid out by the establishment…it’s called “dumbing down.”

Our culture is in danger of being extinct and that does not foretell of a promising future. We are being forced to be who we do not want to be.

Families are seeing a bleek future for their children because alien demands will be forthcoming and preferential treatment will close the doors in the faces of middle Americans who have sustained this Country. Laws will only apply to the law-abiding.

Illegal immigration is unfairly weighted to one group.

This is not America anymore. Native-born Americans are being decimated. This bill is the final shovelful of dirt on middle America.

Kennedy-McCain are the authors of Death to the Middle Americans."
It is a cohersive bill.
Click to expand...
This is an incredibly old argument, xenophobia has been with us since before we were a nation.
 
There is no immigration crisis – other than the one created by a small but vocal stripe of opportunist politicians, media demagogues and freelance xenophobes. So it has always been throughout the history of this country when anti-immigrant hysteria periodically reigns during low ebbs in our national sense of security and vision.
The script is as old as the Mayflower: A false alarm is sounded that the values, wages and safety of the current roster of credentialed Americans are jeopardized by the “flood” or “tidal wave” or “river” sneaking across our porous borders – be they Irish, Chinese, Jewish, Russian, Mexican or even the freed slaves seeking to earn an honest living in Northern cities after the Civil War. Any and all manner of societal problems are to be laid on these scapegoats, and the same simplistic solution offered: Find and deport them, and don’t let any more in.
Luckily, although it sometimes takes years or even decades, saner voices eventually prevail, acknowledging that the continued influx of immigrants has always fueled America’s astonishing economic and cultural rise ever since the original natives were bum-rushed off their turf. Immigration laws are liberalized, compromises are reached, amnesties are offered, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service bureaucracy grinds on.

alternet.org/story/34202/
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Let’s hope that sane minds prevail and we get the Immigration Reform that is needed.
 
It’s staggering how something so impacting on America’s culture and economy also its heath system can be so “poo-pooed” and downplayed. THAT is insane ! Reality is soberness of mind and seeing things as they really are.

When civil strife begets a nation everything is challenged even religion.

__
Pray for America
 
johnstown_johnn said:
It’s staggering how something so impacting on America’s culture and economy also its heath system can be so “poo-pooed” and downplayed. THAT is insane ! Reality is soberness of mind and seeing things as they really are.

When civil strife begets a nation everything is challenged even religion.

__
Pray for America
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Religion? Yes, this same sort of argument was once used against Catholics.
This pattern began to change in the late 1880s, when Wisconsin and Illinois passed English-only instruction laws for both public and parochial schools. The legislation was inspired by an anti-Catholic secret society known as the American Protective Association. Unintentionally it united Lutherans as well as Catholics in opposition – both ran sectarian, German-language schools – and their combined outcry was intense. German-speaking Civil War heroes stepped forward to testify that Americanism did not imply anglicization. The Republican Party, which had heavily promoted these laws, lost nearly every state and federal office in the next election. Incoming Democrats soon repealed the English-only statutes. Elsewhere language restrictions were enacted in response to pressures from native laborers who resented the competition of foreigners (especially when used as strike-breakers). In 1897, for example, Pennsylvania imposed an English-speaking requirement for coal miners, a measure designed to exclude Italians and Hungarians
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/anatomy.htm
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This is the 21st Century; your history lesson is over 100 years old. A different time when America was fewer than 48 States. How this ties into a deluge of 20-30 million illegal immigrants beats the heck out of me.

As for the Hungarians, Italians (you left out Polish, Slovaks, Croatians, Ukrainians, Russians et al) they were recruited by the American coalmine owners along with the Steel mills by offering them paid passage to America and jobs, These people did the hard, dirty and dangerous work. America was very young then. Every immigrant from Europe had to undergo examinations of many sorts. And they paid taxes from Day One.🙂
 
Most Americans are not against immigration, since almost all Americans are either immigrants, or the descendants of immigrants. That said, let’s talk about illiegal immigrants.

“Undocumented workers” is the politically correct term for illegal aliens. Illegal means that they are here illegally. They are breaking the law.

Now the question is, do you have a lock on the door to your house? Why do you feel that you need to lock the door? Are you opressing strangers by controlling who can come into your home?

Well, it’s the same with nations. We take in more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. But we can only accept them as fast as they can be assimilated. Secondly, we need to make sure that we are not accepting people who are bringing in contageous diseases, or criminals, or terrorists.

The real problem is our politicians. We have an administration that refuses to enforce the immigration laws. We have millions of illegals in this country. This same administration which claims to be so concerned about protecting us from terrorists, doesn’t seem interested in who walks across the border. American citizens are harrassed by the USA PATRIOT Act, and other laws that would seem more appropriate in Nazi Germany, but illegal alliens are not being deported, nor prevented from just walking across the border.

At the same time, our politicians are offering benefits and social programs to the illegals, and encouraging them NOT to assimilate. Why do you think our government has put up signs in Spanish?

People are welcome to come here from every country, but they need to come here legally. And when they do come here, they need to assimilate. If you don’t want to learn our common language (English) and become an American, go back where you came from.

ابو كمون
 
Amen to all of that.

During the refugees from Cuba (boat people) there were literally thousands that Castro sent over to America as he emptied his prisons of felons.

It is no stretch of the imagination that there are some criminal elements among the illegal immigrants.

Bush took an oath of Office to protect America.

Criminal types do not enhance a Nation’s spirituality.
 
NOTICE: The charity level on this thread has began to decline. Please self-edit before hitting the submit button or this thread will be closed and some posters will find their posting priveleges “modified”.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary
 
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