Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[John_Pascendi]

Well,lets see,the Church existed for how many years before the various writings,diaries,histories etc were finally compiled and placed under one cover…I think thats what Bible or biblia means…books! The RCC can,thus still exist,even if all of the Bibles were destroyed (who knows maybe with this new hate crimes bill…anyway)…lets just start and end with divorce. In the Bible I am pretty sure it is stated: re: marriage",what God has put together let no man put asunder" yet the protestant churchs quickly allowed divorce…go figure…also I have always figured if Jesus had wanted to leave all of HIs teachings in written form He would have invented the printing press and distributed copies of his new gospel to all the folks at the time…instead He left us a Chair,and whomever sits in that Chair in Rome represents Him…thats good enough for me…also how wise. What with words changing there meanings from generation to generation it was a great practical idea to have an infallible source to explain it all to us…Pas

 

[2nd_Adam]

So, you believe that a “Sacred Tradition” that is not in the Bible is inspired and authoritative equal to Scripture itself. Good to know. One little thing though, I didn’t realize that Protestants established a canon of scripture. Would you point out to me when that happened?

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Well,lets see,the Church existed for how many years before the various writings,diaries,histories etc were finally compiled and placed under one cover…I think thats what Bible or biblia means…books! The RCC can,thus still exist,even if all of the Bibles were destroyed (who knows maybe with this new hate crimes bill…anyway)…lets just start and end with divorce. In the Bible I am pretty sure it is stated: re: marriage",what God has put together let no man put asunder" yet the protestant churchs quickly allowed divorce…go figure…also I have always figured if Jesus had wanted to leave all of HIs teachings in written form He would have invented the printing press and distributed copies of his new gospel to all the folks at the time…instead He left us a Chair,and whomever sits in that Chair in Rome represents Him…thats good enough for me…also how wise. What with words changing there meanings from generation to generation it was a great practical idea to have an infallible source to explain it all to us…Pas

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

The Scriptures were God-breathed written revelation given to the Elect way before the existence of the Catholic Church. What cannon of Scripture do you think was pointing to Jesus in John 5:39?

 

[Carlan]

Do you consider the mission field to be Muslims, Hindus, Athesists and Protestants? Why or why not?

Actually the mission field is Catholicism, in the beginning I believed it was what you were seeking. Carlan

 

[2nd_Adam]

Actually the mission field is Catholicism, in the beginning I believed it was what you were seeking. Carlan

The mission field is all who are still united to Adam, regardless if they profess Christ or not. I heard that some consider the visible church to be the great mission field in the 21st century.

 

[bookgirl32]

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? .

So how DID they know if a particular epistle was God-breathed in the 1st century?
And you still didn’t point me to that infallible Protestant canon, will you clarify that please?

It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God

And THAT is called Sacred Tradition .

 

[bookgirl32]

I am having trouble keeping my legs under me. The “protestant” canon of scripture ? That explains it…not only do they have a different bible…they can interpret it any way they wish

Yes, and claim that all of their interpretations are “God-breathed”.

 

[Carlan]

The mission field is all who are still united to Adam, regardless if they profess Christ or not. I heard that some consider the visible church to be the great mission field in the 21st century.

Really, so that is what you are doing here at Catholic Answers, Carlan

 

[Canto]

bookgirl32;5861482:

Of course the Protestant cannon of Scripture is inspired, because Sacred Scripture is God-breathed.

How do you know the Gospel of John is God Breathed but the Gospel of Thomas is not God Breathed for example.

How do you know Isaiah is God Breathed but Ecclesiasticus (aka Sirach) is not?

 

[Canto]

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

The Scriptures were God-breathed written revelation given to the Elect way before the existence of the Catholic Church. What cannon of Scripture do you think was pointing to Jesus in John 5:39?

A broad statement

Who gave the canon to the elect?
Whom specifically among the elect recieved this canon? Paul?

Jesus bulilt the Church on the rock of Peter and charged the apostles to go baptizin’ long before a word of the NT was ever written.

 

[guanophore]

Do you consider the mission field to be Muslims, Hindus, Athesists and Protestants? Why or why not?

Why are you asking this on two different threads?

What does this have to do with the topic?

Why are you afraid to post these questions in Apologetics, where they belong?

Romans chapter 1 is about God given conscience and nature (general revelation). So, within judgment, condemnation, and redemption, what does Scripture tell us about conscience and general revelation (nature). I would study Romans chapter 1 in context with the entire book of Romans before you try to answer. I’m not sure if my God is too small, but rather my God has spoken through Sacred Scripture. But, please don’t gloss over my question to you, because I’m trying to make a point here brother. And how does God reveal eternal redemptive truth in pagan writings?

I am not sure what this has to do with the topic either?

Of course God has spoken through Holy Scripture. That is just not the only avenue He uses to reveal Himself.

Mankind is without excuse before God. He has given sufficient revelation to all that they may know Him, and respond to Him.

Contrary to the false teaching of Calvin, God has placed within man the desire and ability to seek Him.

Act 17:24 The God who made the earth and everything in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, is not housed in buildings made with hands;
Act 17:25 And he is not dependent on the work of men’s hands, as if he had need of anything, for he himself gives to all life and breath and all things;
Act 17:26 And he has made of one blood all the nations of men living on all the face of the earth, ordering their times and the limits of their lands,
Act 17:27 **So that they might make search for God, in order, if possible, to get knowledge of him and make discovery of him, though he is not far from every one of us: **Act 17:28 For in him we have life and motion and existence; as certain of your verse writers have said, For we are his offspring.
Act 17:29 If then we are the offspring of God, it is not right for us to have the idea that God is like gold or silver or stone, formed by the art or design of man.
Act 17:30 Those times when men had no knowledge were overlooked by God; but now he gives orders to all men in every place to undergo a change of heart:

Paul here quotes an inspired part of a Pagan poem. In Him we live, and move,a nd have our being, because we are His offspring (made in His image and likeness).

 

[Canto]

Please see post 362 for my answer.

Read, but does not prove scripture over Tradtion

God is always authorative over all. What we are really discussing is how God reveals Himself authoratively to His children. We both agree that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed. That is pretty authorative to me. What Catholics seem to be saying to me is… God our Heavenly Father is saying that my adoped children at the Catholic Church have the Fullness of Truth and my adopted children a the Protestant Churches only have partial truth;

Does God only reveal himself via the written word?
Fullness of truth: Yes:thumbsup:

therefore, my children at the Catholic Church are better than my children from my non-Catholic Christian churches.

You do know there are some pretty sinful ‘Catholics’ right?

Well, God never makes that kind of that distinctive between Catholics and Protestants in Scripture.

Christ who is God set up a Church on the rock of Peter, some are a member of that Church some are not and chose not to walk in the traditions handed down.

You are either in enmity with God and united to Adam (child of the devil), or by the grace of God alone… are now united to Christ and an eternal adopted child of God based on our elder brother Jesus Christ. I rather listen to God my Heavenly Father through His written revelation (Sacred Scripture) over my siblings over at the Catholic Church.

So you choose to ignore St Paul who specifically told you to hold onto oral tradition?

None of this proves your claim that scripture is above tradition?

 

[guanophore]

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God.

They needed authority. The first century Christians had the Apostles, whose shepherding they could rely upon to discern the Truth. It is clear from Paul’s epistles that there were false Apostles, false gospels, wolves in the sheep, etc. Yes, these are why Jesus appointed an authority.

Yes, Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God by the Power of the HS. The HS works through the authority established by Christ, just as he promised He would.

You may not have studied the history of the canon, but there were 400+ books floating around at the time, claiming to be inspired. some of them were read in the churches, just like the 27 that were finally selected.

I think you will agree with me that any number of individuals can read the Scripture, believe they are inspired by the HS to understand it, and yet make errors. That is why Jesus instructed that disputes should be taken to the Church.

 

[guanophore]

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

The Scriptures were God-breathed written revelation given to the Elect way before the existence of the Catholic Church. What cannon of Scripture do you think was pointing to Jesus in John 5:39?

Certainly the OT Scriptures were. the NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. Everything in them is Catholic. That was a requirement to be included in the NT.

There was no canon at the time of Christ. Jesus and the Apostles used the Alexandrian Septuagint. All the various factions agreed upon the five books of Moses as Scripture. Sadducees did not accept anything written after that as Scripture. The Pharisees accepted the Psalms, Prophets, and “writings” (wisdom literature and history). Palestinian Jews rejected the Deuterocanon, but Disapora Jews accepted it.

You see, your thread appears to be an admonition to Catholics to read their bibles, but you can’t even agree with us on what constitutes the Bible, and why!

 

[Canto]

Do you really think the 1st century Christians needed a Church council to tell them that a particular epistle was God-breathed and authorative in their lives? It is by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, that Christians know that the Bible is the Word of God.

First century Christians did not all have their own copy of the gospels and epistles. A bishop/presbyter would have read the epistle and catechised the people.

In the early Church some did not consider Revelation for example to be inspired, some Hebrews etc etc So if knowing the canon was so easy, why so much debate throughout the centuries. Why do Catholics and Protestants to this day have different canons. Surley the Holy Spirit didn’t inspired 2 different canons.

 

[guanophore]

Read, but does not prove scripture over Tradtion

So you choose to ignore St Paul who specifically told you to hold onto oral tradition?

None of this proves your claim that scripture is above tradition?

I would like an answer to this too, 2nd. Why have you disregarded the Apostolic commandment?

Th 2:15 So then, brothers, be strong in purpose, and keep the teaching which has been given to you by word or by letter from us.

For your information, the word here in the Gk is “paradosis”. ever studied that?

 

[2nd_Adam]

So how DID they know if a particular epistle was God-breathed in the 1st century?
And you still didn’t point me to that infallible Protestant canon, will you clarify that please?

And THAT is called Sacred Tradition .

Authorative teaching by the Apostles (oral and written) were received by the Elect by the work of the Spirit. The first century Christians knew truth way before the Church declared an official cannon of Scripture. I think you forget that the Bible is God-breathed. Christians in the 21st century believe that the Bible is the Word of God by the work of the Spirit of God, and not because of some church council. Why do you personally believe that the Bible is the Word of God, because of the work of the Spirit or because the Catholic Church told you so? There are plenty of Catholics and Protestants who do actually believe that the Bible is the Word of God. The flesh cannot receive the truth of Scripture.

1 Thessalonians 2:13

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam;5862471:

How do you know the Gospel of John is God Breathed but the Gospel of Thomas is not God Breathed for example.

How do you know Isaiah is God Breathed but Ecclesiasticus (aka Sirach) is not?

By reading those books through the work of the Spirit in our lives. How do you know that the Book of Mormon is not from God? When you read the Book of Mormon, is it because the Spirit is in you, or because the Catholic Church tells you the Book of Mormon is not from God?

 

[elvisman]

Do you understand that our definition of the church (his body) is mutually exclusive? The body of Christ consist of all those whom the Spirit moved from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light, or the kingdom of HIs Son. It is universal or catholic, which crosses denominational lines or divisions within Christendom. The body of Christ is not the Catholic Church exclusively since there is a remnant in the Catholic Church chosen by grace. The true body of Christ include all the sheep from different Christian communities.
So when you think of the word church, you see Catholic, and I see catholic (universal). Christ came to rescue His sheep (the church) from their sins.

And you don’t see how wrong you are?

You’re not wrong because I say you are. You’re wrong because your definition of the Body of Christ is goes completely against what Jesus prayed for in John 17:
John 17:11, 20-23****
Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are.
**"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, ****so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. **
**And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, **I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.

---

Your belief in a separated, splintered Body of Christ is a perversion of the unity that Christ intended.

 

[elvisman]

Canto;5864205:

By reading those books through the work of the Spirit in our lives. How do you know that the Book of Mormon is not from God? When you read the Book of Mormon, is it because the Spirit is in you, or because the Catholic Church tells you the Book of Mormon is not from God?

The shoddy "history" it portrays is itself, plain enough for anybody to see that it is a fraud.
This, coupled with the fact that it is in direct opposition to the truths revealed to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15) makes it a slam dunk.

ALL truth is revealed to the individual - not BY the Church, but THROUGH the Church because the Church is guided BY the Holy Spirit, who IS truth. The Bible was brought to you, courtesy of the Catholic Church - the very Body of Christ you reject.