Catholics Worship Mary!

[Stone_Cold]

bjcros:

But you are not praying to your bed when you kneel down to pray. You also are not praying to your Mother on Mother’s Day(At least I hope not). You should compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. However, you go to Mary in prayer. Prayer is worship. Therefore, you are worshiping Mary.

I go to the Blessed Mother in prayer the same way I go to my family and friends in prayer. I ask the Blessed Mother to pray for me as I would go to a family member or friend. The second part of the Angelic Salutation is Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Notice pray FOR us, as we ask her intercession with her Divine Son. If I can ask you to pray for me, how much more the Blessed Mother, who beholds the Holy Trinity in perpetuity.

Prayer consists of four elements:

1. Adoration. This belongs to God alone, as only God is to be adored for who He is. Veneration of the saints, including the Blessed Mother, comes from their doing the will of God. Since the Blessed Mother always does the will of God, she is venerated above all the saints. But we do not adore her as we adore God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the only persons worthy of adoration.

**2. Thanksgiving. **We give thanks to God for all the graces He gives us. We also thank the Blessed Mother and the saints for their prayers for us, in the same manner we thank a family member or friend for praying for us here on earth. Giving thanks to the Blessed Mother does not take away anything from God, just as thanking a friend for praying for us would not take anything away from God. In fact, God is pleased we show gratitude to those who pray for us, as we are part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

**3. Reparation. **We tell God we are sorry for our sins and promise to amend our lives. We can ask the Blessed Mother and the saints to ask God for forgiveness. This shows humility, as we know we are unworthy to approach Jesus because of our sins. We may go directly to God or use the intercession of the saints. This also does not take away from God, just as when we have wronged someone on earth does not take away from God when we ask them for forgiveness. After all, didn’t the prodigal son say to his father, *“Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, I am not now worthy to be called thy son” *(Luke 15:21).

4. Petition. This we may ask Christ directly, or go through the saints, or go through the holy souls in purgatory, or go through those here on earth. This is the most used element of prayer, as we constantly ask God for what we want and need. God is more likely to grant our prayer when we have others pray for us. After all, Christ told us, *“For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” *(Matthew 18:20).

You err when you restrict prayer to adoration alone. Christ said, “Amen, amen I say to you: if you ask the Father any thing in my name, he will give it you” (John 16:23). When we ask the saints to pray for us, we are asking them to pray to Christ, not to the Father. Therefore, this type of prayer is petition, as we are asking for a favor from the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, through the saints, the same way I ask a friend to pray for me.

Asking the saints to pray for me is no more worship than asking a friend on earth to pray for me.

Pax tecum

 

[Stone_Cold]

oudave:

Hi
If the Catholic church want’s to shed this supposed lie then why doesn’t the Pope tell everyone to stop kneeling before statues? I mean it seems to be a real problem with all these prots thinking you all worship idols. I mean if your not worshiping statues then why make it appear as such. I know it sounds easy, but I think it will work. By the way I’m praying for the Pope, he doesn’t look well.
In Him and only Him, Dave.

Do you ever pray holding a Bible? I have seen Protestants on their knees praying with a Bible in their hands. Why do Protestants worship a book?

You might say the Bible is the Word of God. If so, then why does the beginning of the Gospel of St. John say the following:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God… 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Bible clearly states the Word was made flesh, which means the Bible itself claims it is not the Word of God, but rather Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Therefore, Protestants worship a book.

Idolatry is worshiping a graven image as if the god was contained in the image. Catholics do not believe the saints are gods nor do they live inside the statue.

If God doesn’t want us to make any graven images, then why does God say the following in Exodus 25:16-20:

16 And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee. 17 Thou shalt make also a propitiatory of the purest gold: the length thereof shall be two cubits and a half, and the breadth a cubit and a half. 18 Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. 19 Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. 20 Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.

If you are correct, and God doesn’t want us to make any graven images as stated in Exodus 20:4, then God contradicts Himself and is a liar and, therefore, is not to be believed or worshiped. If I am correct, and God doesn’t want us to worship any graven image, then God doesn’t contradict Himself and it is acceptable to pray in front of a statue.

I understand you have been told several times what Catholics do when we pray in front of statues. You have chosen to remain in your ignorance and continue to falsely accuse Catholics of idol worship.

Exodus 20:2-3 says:

2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

When you condemn a person of idol worship, when you either ignore the truth or do not possess the necessary insight to make such a judgment, you have set yourself up as God. I will ignore your condemnation and continue to pray in front of statues. I will have no strange gods before me.

 

[oudave]

TobyLue:

To CM and TE.

I know you have told SW and OuD many times that Catholics do not worship statues nor worship Mary and have explained the Catholic position. But they insist Catholics still do. Maybe one thing that we have not taken into consideration is that SW and OuD may be, uh, may be (since they claim Catholics worship Mary and statues) that they are,uh, GOD? Have they been able to see into your hearts and they have determined that no matter what you say, they tell us that you are lying? Can SW and OuD actually see into your hearts? Maybe you should start bowing to them, since they INSIST THEY KNOW what is in your hearts. Reminds me of little kids. “No I don’t?” “Yes you do!” “No, Catholics don’t worship Mary and statues!” “Yes you do! Yes you do! Nya, nya, nya!”

I’m curious, how do non-Catholics honor Mary? Or do they tell Jesus, who loves his mother very, very much….“Eh, she means nothing to me big J. You da man!”.

I admit that some years ago I felt the Blessed Mother had no place in my life, until one day in prayer I discerned Jesus asking me. “Why have you abandoned my mother?”

*Maybe you should start bowing to them, since they INSIST THEY KNOW what is in your hearts. Reminds me of little kids. *

Hi
I would not want you to bow down to me, that would be worshiping me and I am not worthy. Look it’s very simple, don’t bow before a statue and pray to it and you won’t be accused of worshiping it.
You might not be, but that’s what it looks like to the Non Catholics.
In Him and Only Him, Dave. *

 

[jimmy]

*
**Maybe you should start bowing to them, since they INSIST THEY KNOW what is in your hearts. Reminds me of little kids. **

Hi
I would not want you to bow down to me, that would be worshiping me and I am not worthy. Look it’s very simple, don’t bow before a statue and pray to it and you won’t be accused of worshiping it.
You might not be, but that’s what it looks like to the Non Catholics.
In Him and Only Him, Dave.

So martial arts people worship eachother when they bow before there opponent? hm, that is new to me.

 

[jimmy]

*
**You might not be, but that’s what it looks like to the Non Catholics.
In Him and Only Him, Dave. *

What matters is what you are doing in truth. If someone else thinks you are worshiping Mary, that does not affect whether you are or not.

 

[oudave]

jimmy:

*

So martial arts people worship eachother when they bow before there opponent? hm, that is new to me.*

Hi
If martial arts people pray to each other when bowing then yes, it is worshiping.
Dave.

 

[Church_Militant]

*

*Maybe you should start bowing to them, since they INSIST THEY KNOW what is in your hearts. Reminds me of little kids. *

Hi
I would not want you to bow down to me, that would be worshiping me and I am not worthy. Look it’s very simple, don’t bow before a statue and pray to it and you won’t be accused of worshiping it.
You might not be, but that’s what it looks like to the Non Catholics.
In Him and Only Him, Dave.

Dave, then since it looks to us like you are worshipping your Bible you will never do that again? right? We think that it looks like you are doing that, even though you and many others have told us that you are not…

This is nuts…There is NO Catholic who prays TO a statue. You consistently misconstrue what we tell you and what we attempt explain to you. What’s up with that?

 

[jimmy]

oudave:

jimmy:

Hi
If martial arts people pray to each other when bowing then yes, it is worshiping.
Dave.

But I thought that bowing was worship?

If I pray when I bow it is worship? The word pray comes from the deponent verb precor/precari/precatus sum which means to beg or request. So, every time I beg my mother for money or something, I am worshiping her? hm.

 

[deb1]

oudave:

Hi
If the Catholic church want’s to shed this supposed lie then why doesn’t the Pope tell everyone to stop kneeling before statues? I mean it seems to be a real problem with all these prots thinking you all worship idols. I mean if your not worshiping statues then why make it appear as such. I know it sounds easy, but I think it will work. By the way I’m praying for the Pope, he doesn’t look well.
In Him and only Him, Dave.

I must be missing something. I just don’t see the big deal. Haven’t people for centuries knelt when the met kings or queens? In Asian cultures it is a sign of respect to bow. And even in western cultures, little polite bows and curtsey were accepted in the eighteen hundreds.(Or so I gather from all those Austin books that I read)

 

[TobyLue]

Wow, and to think of the many, many Square Dancers that are worshiping their partners.

oudave

*I would not want you to bow down to me, that would be worshiping me and I am not worthy. *

But you keep insisting that you know whats in our hearts because we keep telling you WE…DO…NOT…WORSHIP…STATUES. and you keep saying yes you do, yes you do. So its apparent that you think you know whats in our hearts, and only God knows our hearts. So, apparently you want us to worship you… Yes you do, yes you do…
You are being childish and unChristian.
and

You might not be, but that’s what it looks like to the Non Catholics.

You are correct when you say “You might not be…” and **we don’t. **So can’t you accept our replies and let it go at that? For the Love of God man, whats your problem?
and

*Look it’s very simple,… *

Yes, it’svery simple. Again I will repeat what has been repeated many times before ad nauseum… CATH…O…LICS… DO… NOT… WOR…SHIP… MAR…Y… NOR… STA…TUES. … Read my lips. Catholics do not worship Mary nor statues. It’s that simple. You are so biased and stubborn, that YOU know what the Catholic Church teaches. OK oudave. Here is a challenge. Show me some official Church document that commands Catholics that we are to worship Mary and the statues. I’m sure you can find thousands of Church documents in the website. Do this homework and if you find one that says it, then I will be out of the CC in a shake of a lambs tail. Oh, and don’t give me this bit about “praying is worshiping”, or “honoring is worshiping”…This is getting old…

BTW, I can start a new thing and we can harp on it just like you are doing. Your signature “In Him and Only Him, Dave”. We could take it that this statement means “In Him as in Dave, and Only Him, as in Dave.” So you are exalting yourself in this statement. You can tell us that is not correct, but we will insists that you are…
God Bless.

 

[oudave]

TobyLue:

Wow, and to think of the many, many Square Dancers that are worshiping their partners.

oudave

But you keep insisting that you know whats in our hearts because we keep telling you WE…DO…NOT…WORSHIP…STATUES. and you keep saying yes you do, yes you do. So its apparent that you think you know whats in our hearts, and only God knows our hearts. So, apparently you want us to worship you… Yes you do, yes you do…
You are being childish and unChristian.
and

You are correct when you say “You might not be…” and **we don’t. **So can’t you accept our replies and let it go at that? For the Love of God man, whats your problem?
and

Yes, it’svery simple. Again I will repeat what has been repeated many times before ad nauseum… CATH…O…LICS… DO… NOT… WOR…SHIP… MAR…Y… NOR… STA…TUES. … Read my lips. Catholics do not worship Mary nor statues. It’s that simple. You are so biased and stubborn, that YOU know what the Catholic Church teaches. OK oudave. Here is a challenge. Show me some official Church document that commands Catholics that we are to worship Mary and the statues. I’m sure you can find thousands of Church documents in the website. Do this homework and if you find one that says it, then I will be out of the CC in a shake of a lambs tail. Oh, and don’t give me this bit about “praying is worshiping”, or “honoring is worshiping”…This is getting old…

BTW, I can start a new thing and we can harp on it just like you are doing. Your signature “In Him and Only Him, Dave”. We could take it that this statement means “In Him as in Dave, and Only Him, as in Dave.” So you are exalting yourself in this statement. You can tell us that is not correct, but we will insists that you are…
God Bless.

Hi
This whole bantering back and forth is not about live people, it is about statues. Look, like I said you may not be but that is what it looks like to NC’s.
In Christ and Only Christ, Dave
**
PS There see I changed it so as not to look like I am exalting myself and it was very easy. If you would do same you could get rid of these accusations.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Gee, what else do we “look like” we’re doing to non-Christians?
Worshipping a wafer when we receive Holy Communion?
(Some, not all, but some, Protestants think Catholics do exactly that, why not non Christians as well since those Protestants go to such pains to accuse Catholics.) So, should we Catholics stop receiving Communion because non-Christians and some Protestants think we’re worshipping a wafer?

And what about that Bible? We sure treat it with reverence. We say it’s the Word of God. We worship a book–uh oh, better not treat that book with reverence anymore. Dog-ear it, kick it around, better yet, use other books–to show diversity, let’s use the Quran or even the Kama Sutra. Or, maybe we’d better not use books at all, so people don’t think we’re worshipping any book.

And those churches. We act like they’re some sort of holy place. What gives? After all, do we NEED anything other than God Himself? Isn’t He everywhere? If we act like we NEED a holy place to worship Him, aren’t we limiting Him? By all means, let’s raze those churches and sell all those obscene statues and gold stuff to feed the poor. Otherwise, non Christians will think we worship churches. . .

Yep, we’d better start thinking about how we APPEAR to others. Certainly that’s FAR more important than any actual worship of God Himself.

 

[Mickey]

* Look, like I said you may not be but that is what it looks like to NC’s.*

It doesn’t really matter what it looks like to you, Dave. Catholics don’t have to justify what’s in their hearts to a protestant with revisionist theology, whose roots go back maybe 500 years.

 

[miguel_delgado]

hola de nuevo (hi again)

Man, looks like i open pandora’s box with my first thread here, you know guys when someone is that stuborn and inmovable, we have try to explain to them but nooooo thew must have the infaliavility of the pope, then we catholics are idolatres, it must be because the master computer of the UFO burried inside the vatican told us to (YES I ALSO HEAR THAT ONE TIME).

PLEASE HELP ME OUT HERE CUS I DONT KNOW THE EXACT WORDS IN ENGLISH, that bible verse that jesus said something like “if you have ears then hear and if you have eyes then see”

if bowing is worshiping then i think “all dogs go to heaven” because they bow wow all the time (just a little humor to cut the stress)

if i made an error, then pardon my english
adios

 

[Thal59]

Miguel,

I learned through a spiritual crisis last year, something interesting. I always suspected that all people have their own inner prejudices and biases. (Especially true of religion and politics.) But what I learned last year, much to my amazement, was that when these inner prejudices and biases kick in, they trump intelligence. Even the simplest, most easily provable truth, will be rejected by the most intelligent person, if it goes against those inner prejudices and biases.

It is therefore best to simply state one’s case, and leave it at that. If the person you are “debating” with is truly open to the truth, your words will eventually have a positive effect. If they are locked in their biases, nothing you can say wll change their mind no matter how much scripture or history you give them. (Don’t forget that Protestants have a complete contempt for history and reality.)

Regarding the worship of Mary; this is a particularly difficult thing to argue. This is because the “honor” Catholics give Mary is generally greater than the worship Protestants give Jesus, so it only appears to be worship of Mary to the Protestant mind. What Protestants never grasp is that the worship of Jesus by Catholics is far greater than the honor we give to Mary, which in turn is greater than the worship Protestants give to Jesus.

But you’ll never get a Protestant to accept that.

Thal59

 

[SPOKENWORD]

miguel delgado:

Hi guys i am new and like to share with you this:
when some protestant friend tells you: CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY, here is what i tell them.

WE CATHOLICS DONT WORSHIP MARY BECAUSE THAT WILL BE GOING AGAINST THE 1ST COMMANDMENT (SO WE DONT DO THAT).

THEN ASK THEM: DID JESUS SIN???
ANSWER= NO

AND THEN (HERE IS THE TRAP) YOU REPPLY:
WHAT ABOUT THE 4TH COMMANDMENT (HONOR THY MOTHER AND THY FATHER), DID JESUS HONOR MARY???

IF THEY ANSWER NO, WELL THEN JESUS SIN. AND ALL CHISTIANITY IS DOWN THE TUBES

IF THEY ANSWER YES…WELL POINT FOR THE CATHOLICS BECAUSE WE TRY TO IMITATE JESUS.

(I TOLD YOU THERE WAS NO ESCAPE FROM THIS ONE)

Hope you like this one and use it. PLEASE REPLY TO THIS ONE I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

ADIOS FROM MEXICO !!!

Hi Miguel.O.k. Do you keep all the other commandments?. If you break one in Gods eyes you are guilty of them all. God Bless

 

[Mickey]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Miguel.O.k. Do you keep all the other commandments?. If you break one in Gods eyes you are guilty of them all. God Bless

**JUST WHAT COMMANDMENT ARE YOU ACCUSING HIM OF BREAKING? **

 

[TobyLue]

Hi Miguel.O.k. Do you keep all the other commandments?. If you break one in Gods eyes you are guilty of them all

oudave
How about “Thou shall not bear false witness against they neighbor”? You have made these accusations which are false, so …

One more thing. The CC has not changed in 2000 years, surely it will not change to simply satisfy you. Sorry bud,

 

[Mickey]

TobyLue:

oudave
How about “Thou shall not bear false witness against they neighbor”? You have made these accusations which are false, so …

One more thing. The CC has not changed in 2000 years, surely it will not change to simply satisfy you. Sorry bud,

Hi TobyLue,

For the sake of accuracy, that was SpokenWord who has made these accusations. But He and oudave are one in the same mind.

 

[clmowry]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Miguel.O.k. Do you keep all the other commandments?. If you break one in Gods eyes you are guilty of them all. God Bless

You might want to restate this…perhaps:

“If you break any commandment you are guilty of sinning…or have violated the law…” or something to that affect.

What you’ve written here seems a little silly.

Let see by this logic, if I were to envy my neighbors swimming pool…then I must have slept with his wife!

Somehow I just don’t think Christ’ll hold me accountable for adultery…unless I commit adultery.

Chuck

Note to self: Skip over any thread with a title like this one in the future