CDC Study: 85% of Coronavirus Patients Reported Wearing Masks ‘Always’ or ‘Often’

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Cathoholic said:
LeafByNiggle responded . . .
Just false. Brix said that estimated deaths would be close to 2 million with no interventions at all. But we have had interventions - masks, social distancing, selective business restrictions, group gatherings. That is why it is “only” 220,000 instead of 2 million.
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It is not a paraphrase. Doing a few successful interventions is not the same thing as doing everything perfectly.
Also by the way, according to your own sentence (“That is why it is “only” 220,000 instead of 2 million”) evidently we are doing some thing RIGHT.
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“Some things” is what brought the death toll down from 2 million to 220,000. If you want to see what more could have been done with bold leadership just look at nations like New Zealand, Germany, Norway, Finland, Portugal, Australia.
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All of whom are having or had recurrent spikes as well.
It’s disingenuous to state any one country has a better handle or any handle for that matter,on this virus.
 
LeafByNiggle . . .
No, Cathoholic, it is not a “nice” post. It is a false post because it misquotes Brix.
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How could it be a “misquote” when @Jeanne_S did not “quote”?

Jeanne_S paraphrased Dr. Birx accurately.

Why not just admit it? It is a correct paraphrase.
Everyone remembers it or most everyone. It wasn’t that long ago.

Jeanne_S’s post was just fine.
 
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LeafByNiggle denying what the nation heard Dr. Birx say just a few months ago saying it is my fault for lack of logic . . .
Use as (sic) little logic, OK? Brix (sic) has not been shown to be wrong.
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Whatever.

For everyone else, just re-read my past several posts. You’ll get it.

Ask yourselves WHICH “American officials” said this. . . .

(Again from the New York Times . . .)
American officials said the report, which projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States . . .
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The answer is MANY of them including Birx
 
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LeafByNiggle wrongly assuming because people have not yet had the virus (because they are isolated) will NOT GET the virus once you stop isolating . . . .
If you want to see what more could have been done
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The isolation will need to be permanent.
Or policies will need to change.
Or an effective vaccine (almost impossible considering the physiology and dovetailing that to where today’s still-lacking vaccine technology is) will need to be developed.

OR (most likely) a subpar vaccine will be pushed,
that will be marginally effective,
and then the governments can use that as a pretend pretext
to change their isolation policies,
which they should have already done but won’t because it tacitly admits their error in ingnoring the WHO statement
(saying Sweden is the world model for public health [not individual patient management - Sweden killed off many of their own elderly by “treating” the elderly and infirm with narcotics which is almost certainly WHY their death rates were so awful initially] management of corona virus).
 
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Cathoholic said:
An overlooked study published recently by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) suggests that cloth face coverings or masks are mostly ineffective in preventing the spread of the Chinese coronavirus as promoted by public health officials.
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I didn’t read all the responses but where I am in the Midwest U.S. most everyone has a mask on out in public. There are at times a few that do not but most everyone has on a mask when out and about and then when they are done in the public sphere they go back and hold up in their houses. Most people are afraid to even get close to another person for fear that might be the person who will make them sick and die. So when I hear the news media say, “if people would just stay home and wear a mask when going out and stay six feet away from each other, we would see an end to this disease”, well I just stopped believing them. IMHO this case study of masks not as effective as hoped, I can certain see where that probably has a lot of truth in it and wonder what could be the reasons for it not being made so public.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
So when I hear the news media say, “if people would just stay home and wear a mask when going out and stay six feet away from each other, we would see an end to this disease”, well I just stopped believing them, so IMHO this case study of masks not as effective as hoped, I can certain see where that probably has a lot of truth in it and wonder what could be the reasons for it not being made so public.
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Good points MagdalenaRita.

My personal opinion is we just don’t know as much as we pretend.

Clearly there is a place for masks (but I don’t know exactly what those places are).

I do know this though. A lot of this is politics and feel-good psychology.

California Democrat Governor Gavin Newsom telling people to put masks on between bites of food in restaurants is utterly ridiculous.

And it really discredits the left, when they just refuse to come out and say the obvious.

It really discredits the left, when they just refuse to come out and say Newsom is making this up and it is ridiculous.

They did the same thing with Andrew Cuomo putting infected people INTO nursing homes among the elderly and infirm.

Instead of just saying that was non-sense and Cuomo should live up to his mistake and even possibly step-down due to such incompetence (regular people even here on CAF were calling him out on that before he changed that policy. It was OBVIOUS he was making a dramatic mistake), they are silent. Or some leftists actually try to DEFEND Cuomo (proving once again, “politics is more important than people”).

Democrat Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan probably did the same thing, but she won’t allow their public heath people to report on it until AFTER the election. Proving once again. . .

Mandated masking-up alone in a car is another example of foolishness.

Forced masking when you step outside your home is another Democrat-boondoggle with absolutely no evidence of benefit while CLAIMING to embrace “science”.

There is a lot of non-sense going on.
There is not enough humility for them to just say . . .

1/2 . . .
 
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2/2 . .

You know. We don’t know as much as we’d like about this. There are clearly risks with masking-up (mask mouth and other infections, re-used masks with nasal mucus sprayed, dried, and serving as an infection auger and spread, masks that catapult virions out further, re-used masks where people are undoubtedly breathing up “micro-fibers” into their lung, scarring their lung for life at least microscopically - foreign bodies in lungs do that. That is what farmers lung is with grain. That is what coal miners lung is with breathing up coal dust. Silicosis of the lung with micro silicone or sand particles. Asbestosis the same. - Many of the “experts” are ignoring these issues.) There are clearly benefits too. We SUGGEST you wear masks in such and such situations and we hope we have given you correct enough information to empower you. In the meantime, we will objectively study risks and benefits and get back to you frequently as we know more. Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

They show you a little truncated study that has to do with very controlled circumstances and situations. Ignore risks. Then pretend you can apply that study to widespread social use.

Then say the study shows something it doesn’t (i.e. stopping infections rather than slowing down the spread of infection). Or other things that are partial truths or at least partial considerations.

They got businesses failing and starvation of potential “Biblical proportions” occurring because of this shenangans worldwide (see that linked below).
The coronavirus pandemic has left the world facing an unprecedented hunger crisis. The United Nations World Food Program (WFP) has warned that by the end of the year, more than 260 million people will face starvation – double last year’s figures.
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So I don’t know what to think.

I know when politics gets substituted for science, you can’t seem to get real science at least in the depth and breadth we need.

The left makes everything out to be power and politics. So the leftist leaders poison reasonable discussion on things like this attempting to create their own reality by emotions and popularity appeals. And there are clearly benefits at times.

Why not just say? . . .
Here is our best recomendations and you now have that information that admittedly may be wrong, to make YOUR DECISIONS upon.
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Like I said. It is tough to see what REAL roles masks have. They clearly have some role. But as to what? Nobody knows yet.

And pretending that they are all benefit and no risk, as the national left often does is phony.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
So when I hear the news media say, “if people would just stay home and wear a mask when going out and stay six feet away from each other, we would see an end to this disease”, well I just stopped believing them.
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Just as I have stopped believing Trump when he says this disease is rounding the corner and is about to disappear. To be fair, I never did believe him when he first said it, but my lack of belief has been vindicated.
Cathoholic said:
Mandated masking-up alone in a car is another example of foolishness.
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It would be if there was such a mandate, but their isn’t.,
Cathoholic said:
California Democrat Governor Gavin Newsom telling people to put masks on between bites of food in restaurants is utterly ridiculous.
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As is usual when guidance is reduced to a tweet, the shorthand is not as clear as it should be. But there is a reasonable interpretation of this shorthand remark. When you go to a restaurant with others, there is often a lot of talking along with eating. A more charitable interpretation would be that he is advising people to put the mask back on whenever they stop to talk with their friends. It has been shown that talking, especially loud talking, expels massively more droplets than slow breathing. So if you stop to chat, do it through a mask.
Cathoholic said:
The coronavirus pandemic has left the world facing an unprecedented hunger crisis.
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There have been hunger crises before and it was the Democrats who wanted to help, but the Republicans would block them. It seems disingenuous now to claim to oppose masking up because of world hunger! Give me a break!
Cathoholic said:
It is tough to see what REAL roles masks have.
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That’s why we have experts to see what we cannot see.
Cathoholic said:
And pretending that they are all benefit and no risk,…
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…is something nobody does.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
I have stopped believing Trump when he says this disease is rounding the corner and is about to disappear. To be fair, I never did believe him when he first said it, but my lack of belief has been vindicated.
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I have also said I don’t think the disease is going to disappear either. Not ever. Sometimes you challenged me when I said I believed it was going to be endemic. And so it still seems to be.

That being the case, the mitigations are pointless other than perhaps to prevent hospital-burdening spikes, and perhaps not even that. If I presently went deep into the Mark Twain Forest and if I don’t already have Covid, and if I lived off the land with whatever I could put together out there, I would not get Covid. But as soon as I returned from the forest, I would be just as vulnerable as I am now.

My going into the forest for, say, six months, or six years, will do nothing but put off my exposure to Covid, and all the masks and social distancing and hand washing will do nothing more than that either.

Thanks to China messing around with the virus, then letting it escape, then letting it spread to the rest of the world without doing anything to prevent that, we’ll have Covid around for at least the remainder of my life, probably forever.
 
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Wasn’t that the initial intent re the shutdowns? They were supposed to flatten the curve ,however they were kept in place even after the curve was flattened.
 
Why do you think they don’t think it already? Fauci allowed of the possibility in testimony before a Senate subcommittee. Now, maybe he has changed his mind since, but I doubt that he truly has. Plenty of medical people think it will become or is already, endemic. You know that. WHO has expressed the concern that it may become recognized as endemic. “Endemic” just means it never quite goes away and people become aware of that fact.

No public health officials of which I am aware say Covid will completely disappear.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Wasn’t that the initial intent re the shutdowns? They were supposed to flatten the curve ,however they were kept in place even after the curve was flattened.
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The curve was flattened, but now the curve is shooting back up again and hospitalizations are surging. Many hospitals in Utah are at their ICU limit. The mortality rate is lower than it was because we know more about treatment. But not that much lower. The idea that there is no point to mitigation measures is beyond disgusting.
Ridgerunner said:
That being the case, the mitigations are pointless other than perhaps to prevent hospital-burdening spikes, and perhaps not even that.
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LeafByNiggle:
There are no public health officials spouting that line.
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Ridgerunner said:
Why do you think they don’t think it already?
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Because they would not be urging people to take mitigation measures if they thought there was no point to it.
Ridgerunner said:
Fauci allowed of the possibility in testimony before a Senate subcommittee.
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The possibility of what? That mitigation is pointless? I think not.
Ridgerunner said:
Plenty of medical people think it will become or is already, endemic.
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You have a mistaken idea of what “endemic” means. It does not mean mitigation is pointless.
Ridgerunner said:
No public health officials of which I am aware say Covid will completely disappear.
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Which also does not mean that mitigation is pointless. That is your personal groundless anti-scientific opinion, and certainly not the message from public health experts, who are the best guides we have in this pandemic.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The possibility of what?
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Why do you misrepresent what I say? I did not say mitigation is pointless. I opined that it is pointless as a strategy to eradicate Covid because we’re not going to eradicate the disease. I said it’s pointless OTHER than as a way to prevent spikes and overuse of resources.
 
@RidgeRunner stating corona virus will now be endemic (RidgeRunner is correct).

LeafByNiggle’s response?

.
There are no public health officials spouting that line.
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.

.

To the readers. Ask yourself if what Leaf is telling you could be wrong here.

Consider this too:

Coronavirus likely to become as ‘endemic’ as the flu and a vaccine might not be able to stop it, top UK scientist says​

PUBLISHED TUE, OCT 20 2020 7:14 AM EDT

UPDATED TUE, OCT 20 2020 8:38 AM EDT

Holly Ellyatt

@HOLLYELLYATT

KEY POINTS
  • Covid-19 is likely to become as “endemic” as the annual flu virus, according to the U.K.'s chief scientific advisor.
  • A vaccine is not likely to eradicate the virus, the advisor cautioned.
LONDON — Covid-19 is likely to become as “endemic” as the annual flu virus, according to the U.K.'s chief scientific advisor.

Some potential vaccines are in late-stage clinical trials, but Patrick Vallance said none is likely to eradicate the virus.

“The notion of eliminating Covid from anywhere is not right,
because it will come back,” he said, noting there had only been one human disease “truly eradicated” thanks to a highly effective vaccine and that was smallpox.

“We can’t be certain, but I think it’s unlikely we will end up with a truly sterilizing vaccine, (that is) something that completely stops infection, and it’s likely this disease will circulate and be endemic, that’s my best assessment,” Vallance told the National Security Strategy Committee in London on Monday.

“Clearly as management becomes better, as you get vaccination which would decrease the chance of infection and the severity of disease … this then starts to look more like annual flu than anything else, and that may be the direction we end up going,” he said. . . . .
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Coronavirus likely to become as 'endemic' as the flu and a vaccine might not be able to stop it, top UK scientist says World News
The following conclusion (“Coronavirus likely to become as ‘endemic’ as the flu”) is virtually necessary considering the physiology that we know of. If this is the case, masking-up, social-distancing policies, quarantining healthy people, etc. is planned on being PERMANENT because the virus will be a PERMANENT fixture in society (or these mandates will need to change) just like the flu is a permanent fixture in our society. Masses (at least indoor Sunday Masses) are still closed in some…
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Cathoholic (I provided a link for the “unprecedented” aspect that Leaf CHANGED to precidented or to quote Leaf, “hunger crises before”) . . .

Hunger crisises “before” does NOT equal “unprecedented”.

Leaf changed the premise of my argument. Here again is the salient quote from the article . . .
The coronavirus pandemic has left the world facing an unprecedented hunger crisis.
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Bold added for emphasis. Link above in my post from here or direct link at bottom of this post…

LeafByNiggle . . .
There have been hunger crises before . . .
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To the readers here. Draw your own conclusions.

 
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Cathoholic . . .
Mandated masking-up alone in a car is another example of foolishness.
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LeafByNiggle’s response?
It would be if there was such a mandate, but their isn’t.,
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Yes there is.

Here it is . . .

From California . . .
To prevent infection, you must cover your nose and mouth when outside your home. So wearing a mask is now required statewide. Wearing a mask or cloth face covering can slow the spread of COVID-19 by limiting the release of virus into the air.
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Masks - Coronavirus COVID-19 Response.

You are just wrong here Leaf. Why not just admit it?
 
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