Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

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TK421 said:
Well yes, cats will play with their prey while it rolls around suffering in adjunct misery. It has no pity on it. The entire animal kingdom is pitiless. Many creatures are designed to eat their own young if the circumstances are right.
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Indeed, the examples are so pedestrian, don’t require farm or wilderness experience, that one wonders at honest of those who claim otherwise.
This isn’t the fault of the cat though. It is an amoral creature and possesses no supernatural ability to be virtuous or depraved. It is impossible for it to be anything other than what it is.
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There is a distinction drawn between the act and moral culpability for the act. The fact that something is observed in nature does not, in and of itself, make it moral or immoral.
I have no problem with movies that anthropomorphize animals and give them human qualities as a matter of poetic license. Lion King and such are great movies, although I do have to wonder if it doesn’t permanently confuse and distort reality in some people’s lives. Media can indeed have a powerful, almost mind-controlling influence on the human person, so maybe this is no exception.
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I enjoy those movies as much as the next person but I am amazed at how they influence people’s perceptions of wild animals. But then some people seem more influenced by fiction in general. (See how upset people got to learn that Atticus Finch was a segregationist.)
 
Dwyer said:
Gee, it isn’t the Last Lion in the world that was hunted.

If there was a conspiracy to kill (poach) this particular lion, i.e. Cecil, and lure in out of the Park among the hunters and their guides, then a crime was committed.

Otherwise, I say to the mob out there wanting this dentist’s skin, get over it.

Also, if people want to Safari hunt and shoot big game animals, that’s their right and privilege to do so.

Other people don’t have to approve of it and personally I don’t hunt at all but it sounds probably a more interesting way of spending one’s time than sitting in front of a TV or Computer Screen six hours a day and rotting your brain to the junk TV and garbage people watch and listen to.
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I hope the ‘mob’ you refer to doesnt ‘(want) this dentist’s skin’ as much as he sought to flay that lion because if so he is in big trouble
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Animals are subject to human will and are therefore more vulnerable, much like children. We are their stewards, their masters. To me, cruelty to animals is akin to cruelty to children. Particularly horrifying.
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If wild animals were children this would, indeed, be horrifying. They are not so it is not.

Wild animals are wild animals, not children. The fact that both children and wild animals are subject to our care does not make them morally equivalent.

Rocks are also subject to our care but are you upset when you see construction?
 
JimmyG88 said:
I hope the ‘mob’ you refer to doesnt ‘(want) this dentist’s skin’ as much as he sought to flay that lion because if so he is in big trouble
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Given the death threats made, it is clear that some do. Others are content to enjoy the stoning from a distance.
 
JimmyG88 said:
Well with respect. That’s what I said killing things for pleasure
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I imagine few people “respect” wildlife more than do hunters who meet them on their ground.

Whereas big-city animal “lovers” may have only a Disney-level sense of them.

ICXC NIKA
 
JimmyG88 said:
Extradition would probably satisfy people. Seems fair
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That may yet happen, but I suspect even that will not satisfy the mob. Even if he is extradited, even if he is convicted, what is the penalty likely to be? Probably a fine and maybe forbiden to hunt there for a while.

The law is not agreed with the mob on what went wrong here.
 
JimmyG88 said:
Extradition would probably satisfy people. Seems fair
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I doubt a fair trial is possible. A wealthy American in sub-Saharan Africa, weighed against the emotional value of a local mascot?

ICXC NIKA
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Given the death threats made, it is clear that some do. Others are content to enjoy the stoning from a distance.
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The tragic irony is that the same audience that is pining with panted breath for Palmer’s blood & suffering is the same audience that allegedly has an ideology of peace & love. Through hate, the man and woman becomes the very thing that they hate.

Like I said earlier in this thread. Examples like this in social media are just the spiritual child of the Roman Coliseum (which likewise used criminals to be thrown before the mob’s appetite for blood). You find somebody that did something - anything - illegal, and you flay their flesh apart.
 
GEddie said:
I doubt a fair trial is possible. A wealthy American in sub-Saharan Africa, weighed against the emotional value of a local mascot?
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Most of the fanaticism is occuring outside the country, in America and Europe.

The locals just want to have their laws respected. They won’t want to endanger hunting revenue to satisfy rabid mobs in rich countries.

I’m confident they will be fair.

Now if the trial were to be held in Beverly Hills or Manhatan, then I’d worry.
 
TK421 said:
The tragic irony is that the same audience that is pining with panted breath for Palmer’s blood & suffering is the same audience that allegedly has an ideology of peace & love. Through hate, the man and woman becomes the very thing that they hate.
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Are they even pretending still?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
That may yet happen, but I suspect even that will not satisfy the mob. Even if he is extradited, even if he is convicted, what is the penalty likely to be? Probably a fine and maybe forbiden to hunt there for a while.

The law is not agreed with the mob on what went wrong here.
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Oh, I imagine the locals will demand more than a fine for this guy, because of how popular this lion was with everyone.

In my opinion, he deserves everything that is happening to him, some people just like that thrill of killing…sad
 
Given the media storm, I agree that extradition might be the kindest option on behalf of Palmer. Zimbabweans are a society of hunters & farmers that actually have real exposure to the environment, and they have a healthy, traditional, stable perspective on ecology, similar to the Jews or any other traditional civilization. They won’t try to destroy Palmer’s entire existence for shooting a lion. As long as you can protect him from any secular liberal Americans/Europeans that want to murder him, it should all be fine.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
If wild animals were children this would, indeed, be horrifying. They are not so it is not.

Wild animals are wild animals, not children. The fact that both children and wild animals are subject to our care does not make them morally equivalent.

Rocks are also subject to our care but are you upset when you see construction?
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Wild animals are not rocks. They are not our playthings - subject to our own animalistic pagan bloodlust. Can’t see the Pope high-fiving that. At least a wild animal only kills for food and then stops and goes about his business - until he has the misfortune to meet a child of God with a bad case of lack of self-control and over-aggression.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Wild animals are not rocks. They are not our playthings - subject to our own animalistic pagan bloodlust. Can’t see the Pope high-fiving that. At least a wild animal only kills for food and then stops and goes about his business - until he has the misfortune to meet a child of God with a bad case of lack of self-control and over-aggression.
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We’ve already covered this ground. Wild animals do, in fact, kill for fun and not only for food.

Yeah, wild animals are not rocks. But they are not children either.

The following ranking is useful:

Humans, pets, domesticated animals, wild animals, vegtables, rocks. (And, obviously, we can further distinguish within these categories: a pet snake is not the same as a pet dog, a wild mosquito is not the same as a wild coyote.)

Only a fool would confuse these categories.
 
Yep. Pointless cruelty towards animals is wrong and it speaks of an inner darkness within the man that is often directed towards fellow man as well.

So… it’s settled. then… where’s the guillotine? Let’s cut his head off and stick it on a pike at London Bridge. Or he’s American, so let’s do Golden Gate instead.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Humans, pets, domesticated animals, wild animals, vegtables, rocks. (And, obviously, we can further distinguish within these categories: a pet snake is not the same as a pet dog, a wild mosquito is not the same as a wild coyote.)

Only a fool would confuse these categories.
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Problem is, humans are not too rarely the most immoral and far from God on the list. I would gladly take being a fool than being someone who acts like Palmer. In my world that is grace, love and decency. Wouldn’t trade it for the best killing spree “high” in the world.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Problem is, humans are not too rarely the most immoral and far from God on the list. I would gladly take being a fool than being someone who acts like Palmer. In my world that is grace, love and decency. Wouldn’t trade it for the best killing spree “high” in the world.
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Humans are immoral because we have a soul and reasoning faculty, not becase we behave any worse than wild animals.

Hunting is obviously not for everyone and nobody is trying to persuade you to try it.

But be careful about playing the Pharisee in this drama. Put down that rock.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Humans are immoral because we have a soul and reasoning faculty, not becase we behave any worse than wild animals.

Hunting is obviously not for everyone and nobody is trying to persuade you to try it.

But be careful about playing the Pharisee in this drama. Put down that rock.
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At long last, I see a light at the end of this tunnel - a bit of agreement here. We are all spirit and flesh, no? Me too, as you point out. We should all strive to negate the primal, the flesh, and yes, it is a battle to the end. Here’s to life in the spirit - may we all get there.
 
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