Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

[Bubba_Switzler]

That is such a twisted justification that makes me lol very hard. It is on you to prove that lions are in need of culling in Africa if you want to keep justifying trophy hunting with the culling excuse.

I think Brendan pretty much hit the nail on the head with respect to lions in this particular part of the world.

Why don’t we let the local governments, in conjunction with the park staff make the determination on how many, if any, animals need to be culled.

Certainly you do not claim to have better insights into wildlife management that they do?

But we can easily speak generally knowing how nature works. Putting an end to trophy hunting, or any hunting, would not reduce the number of animals killed. It would simply change how they were killed. For the vast majority of animals, death by natural causes is as likely to be a predator or starvation as old age.

Nature will cull by it’s own methods when man does not.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The Church has spoken increasingly urgently about the ecology as science has shown the intricate connection between the world and the welfare of human kind and developed an understanding of the place of creatures in the economy of salvation.

Hunting has been an essential element of “ecology” since before you were in diapers. It may even have begun with that first commamdment to subdue the earth.

It behoves the Christian to feel empathy with our animal friends even those marked for human consumption. That is why abattoirs continue to develop methods of herding and slaughter that reduce fear and suffering to the animals. These trophy hunters aren’t concerned with minimal suffering. They are concerned with preserving trophy product. They use bow and arrow to ensure the quality of their product rather than a gun which would be a far more expedient way to ‘cull’ a beast with minimal suffering. Their words are laughable and pathetic. They are not there with any noble purpose whatsoever.

Indeed, a gun would be more expedient. But, then, those who hate hunting would just complain that it gave man an unfair advantage in the sport. There’s just no pleasing animal rights extremists. No point in even trying.

 

[LongingSoul]

Why don’t we let the local governments, in conjunction with the park staff make the determination on how many, if any, animals need to be culled.

Certainly you do not claim to have better insights into wildlife management that they do?

The developed west has been assisting Africa and other underdeveloped countries in different ways for years. Global accountability has a powerful effect on entrenched inhumanity and exploitation. When we can clearly see how wealthy westerners are paying $50,000 per licence into the pockets of private African interests for the pleasure of coming and killing wildlife when most of us are paying a monthly $30 to charities who serve their poor… the exploitation seems completely outrageous. It really highlights the sickness that trophy hunting is.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Most of the lions in Africa are in east Africa. In all of Africa, there may be as few as 21,000 total. It is my understanding that the very large attrition of lions since the 1940s has been due mostly to destruction of lion habitat and prey. Basically, increased human populations and farming have led to the decline.

It may simply be that lions will be a creature of preserves and zoos only in the future. Grizzly bears and mountain lions once roamed nearly everywhere in the U.S. But the former now exist mainly in national parks. Mountain lions are making a comeback outside those areas because they’re protected and because people rarely run across them.

But the fact is that human habitation and large predators are uneasy combinations at best.

The best chance for lions to have a wide range of territory is for it to be economically viable to give it to them. Nothing brings in more money for wildlife preservation than hunting, not even tourists with cameras.

 

[Brendan]

The developed west has been assisting Africa and other underdeveloped countries in different ways for years. Global accountability has a powerful effect on entrenched inhumanity and exploitation. When we can clearly see how wealthy westerners are paying $50,000 per licence into the pockets of private African interests .

The licences are issued by, and purchased from, the government of Zimbabwe.

Of course, there are private interested involved, such as the airline, the hotel, the transportion etc…

Is that your problem, that the Dentist hired local people to assist him?

 

[FollowChrist34]

We have had a spate of there (sadly usually American) hunter ‘tourists’ killing endangered species such as white rhino, leopards and now this much lived lion. Surely there are no excuses for this uncivilised bloodthirsty behaviour

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11767119/Cecil-the-lions-killer-revealed-as-American-dentist.html

No, no excuse whatsoever. The serious Christian has more important matters at hand than killing innocent animals for sport. (or defending it)

---

Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. Luke 9:20***

Let’s be about our business.

 

[Brendan]

]

Let’s be about our business.

And part of our business is culling herds as the local wildlife managers see fit to allow.

 

[Brendan]

Interestingly enough, the Council of Trent clarified that priests may hunt, as long as they do so quietly.

taylormarshall.com/2011/11/can-priests-go-hunting-council-of-trent.html

 

[LongingSoul]

Interestingly enough, the Council of Trent clarified that priests may hunt, as long as they do so quietly.

taylormarshall.com/2011/11/can-priests-go-hunting-council-of-trent.html

I was looking for something like that to understand the spirit behind a truly Catholic attitude. Taylor Marshall quoted a limited paragraph from New Advent but I think the whole section is a good read and more in tune with Catholicism.

From early times, hunting, in one form or another has been forbidden to clerics. Thus, in the “Corpus Juris Canonici” (C. ii, X, De cleric. venat.) we read: “We forbid to all servants of God hunting and expeditions through the woods with hounds; and we also forbid them to keep hawks or falcons.” The Fourth Council of the Lateran, held under Pope Innocent III, decrees (can. xv): “We interdict hunting or hawking to all clerics.” The decree of the Council of Trent is worded more mildly: “Let clerics abstain from illicit hunting and hawking” (Sess. XXIV, De reform., c. xii). The council seems to imply that not all hunting is illicit, and canonists generally make a distinction between noisy (clamorosa) and quiet (quieta) hunting, declaring the former to be unlawful but not the latter.

Ferraris (s.v. “Clericus”, art. 6) gives it as the general sense of canonists that hunting is allowed to clerics if it be indulged in rarely and for sufficient cause, as necessity, utility, or honest recreation, and with that moderation which is becoming to the ecclesiastical state. Ziegler, however (De episc., l. IV, c. xix), thinks that the interpretation of the canonists is not in accordance with the letter or spirit of the laws of the Church.

Nevertheless, although the distinction between lawful and unlawful hunting is undoubtedly permissible, it is certain that a bishop can absolutely prohibit all hunting to the clerics of his diocese. This has been done by synods at Milan, Avignon, Liège, Cologne, and elsewhere. Benedict XIV (De synodo diœces., l. II, c. x) declares that such synodal decrees are not too severe, as an absolute prohibition of hunting is more conformable to the ecclesiastical law. In practice, therefore, the synodal statutes of various localities must be consulted to discover whether they allow quiet hunting or prohibit it altogether.

newadvent.org/cathen/07563c.htm

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Interestingly enough, the Council of Trent clarified that priests may hunt, as long as they do so quietly.

I’ve known some hunting monks in my day. I can’t say I’ver ever known a parish priest that hunted, though.

I was looking for something like that to understand the spirit behind a truly Catholic attitude. Taylor Marshall quoted a limited paragraph from New Advent but I think the whole section is a good read and more in tune with Catholicism.

The way I read this is that the killing animals is not the issue, it is the flamboyance of the hunt that matters. Clerics, at last, are enjoined not to make a show of hunting but to do it in, what I would call, a quiet and contemplative manner.

 

[sarah_j]

Interestingly enough, the Council of Trent clarified that priests may hunt, as long as they do so quietly.

taylormarshall.com/2011/11/can-priests-go-hunting-council-of-trent.html

The wonderful Father Mitch Pacwa is a hunter.

Perhaps this link will help shed some light
on the Catholic attitude towards hunting.

catholicvote.org/prayers-for-hunting/

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The wonderful Father Mitch Pacwa is a hunter.

Perhaps this link will help shed some light
on the Catholic attitude towards hunting.

catholicvote.org/prayers-for-hunting/

Excellent find!

See also:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Mark121359]

Good news! For all of those on here who are in deep mourning over Cecil you can now relax. Cecil is talking. According to this story, it seams that an American psychic and ‘animal communicator’ named Karen Anderson claims to have contacted Cecil the Lion. And he’s never been better! Here’s what he told her;

“Let not the actions of these few men defeat us or allow darkness to enter our hearts. If we do then we become one of them. Raise your vibration and allow this energy to move us forward. What happened does not need to be discussed as it is what it is. Take heart my child, I am finer than ever, grander than before as no one can take our purity, our truth or our soul. Ever. I am here. Be strong and speak for all the others who suffer needlessly to satisfy human greed. Bring Light and Love and we will rise above this.”
~Cecil the Lion~

Maybe the theologian on here who stated that Christ died to redeem ***all ********* of creation was right! I wonder if this makes Cecil eligible for sainthood? Saint Cecil of Zimbabwe? Miracles attributed to him may prove to be a stumbling block though. Geesh!..now Wikipedia has a page dedicated to him! I must be losing my mind…35 pages and 520+ posts mourning a freaking lion!

Peace, Mark

 

[pianistclare]

Good news! For all of those on here who are in deep mourning over Cecil you can now relax. Cecil is talking. According to this story, it seams that an American psychic and ‘animal communicator’ named Karen Anderson claims to have contacted Cecil the Lion. And he’s never been better! Here’s what he told her;

Maybe the theologian on here who stated that Christ died to redeem ***all ********* of creation was right! I wonder if this makes Cecil eligible for sainthood? Saint Cecil of Zimbabwe? Miracles attributed to him may prove to be a stumbling block though. Geesh!..now Wikipedia has a page dedicated to him! I must be losing my mind…35 pages and 520+ posts mourning a freaking lion!

Peace, Mark

Indeed. LOL. That’s funny. I need that this morning. Peace Mark!

*( I guess no one wanted to respond to the article written by a man from Zimbabwe regarding lions as objects of terror for persons who live there. I thought his article was well written and made some excellent points. First world issues. Yeah, we Americans sometimes have no clue how others live across the globe) *

 

[Brendan]

I was looking for something like that to understand the spirit behind a truly Catholic attitude. Taylor Marshall quoted a limited paragraph from New Advent but I think the whole section is a good read and more in tune with Catholicism.

OK, now did this Dentist engage in ‘noisy’ or ‘quiet’ hunting, or did he hunt in an area where the local bishop had prohibited it.?

 

[DrTaffy]

It’s my understanding that he didn’t “let” the lion take 40 hours to die, the pursuit took 40 hours.

How does that not constitute ‘letting’ the lion take 40 hours to die? He would still be alive had this man not lured him out of the reservation and tried to kill him with a bow and arrow. Incompetently.

At that point it was his duty to ensure a clean kill. Can’t afford it? Don’t do it! Also not the the only criticism aimed at this hunt. By a long shot, to use an appropriate metaphor.

 

[estesbob]

On a scale of 1 to 10 have problems we are facing in this world , with 10 being the highest , the death of the Cecil the lion ranks in the bottom minus five or to be even more blunt-I could not care less about Cecil the lion .

 

[ucfengr]

On a scale of 1 to 10 have problems we are facing in this world , with 10 being the highest , the death of the Cecil the lion ranks in the bottom minus five or to be even more blunt-I could not care less about Cecil the lion .

Rich, white first world citizens have the luxury to be sentimental about lions. The people living in Africa don’t.

 

[DrTaffy]

On a scale of 1 to 10 have problems we are facing in this world , with 10 being the highest , the death of the Cecil the lion ranks in the bottom minus five or to be even more blunt-I could not care less about Cecil the lion .

Which explains why you are so vocal on this issue.

There are many issues under discussion. Until and unless you only discuss the one you feel to be most important, you can hardly criticise others for discussing the rest. Do you really feel that gay couples being given legal rights is more important than gays being stabbed or thrown off of buildings? :ehh:

 

[estesbob]

Which explains why you are so vocal on this issue.

There are many issues under discussion. Until and unless you only discuss the one you feel to be most important, you can hardly criticise others for discussing the rest. Do you really feel that gay couples being given legal rights is more important than gays being stabbed or thrown off of buildings? :ehh:

Very vocal My second post to a 500 plus post thread. I am constantly amazed at what works people up.