Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist

[Peter_Plato]

Which explains why you are so vocal on this issue.

There are many issues under discussion. Until and unless you only discuss the one you feel to be most important, you can hardly criticise others for discussing the rest. Do you really feel that gay couples being given legal rights is more important than gays being stabbed or thrown off of buildings? :ehh:

False dichotomy.

Being stabbed or thrown off buildings is a matter protected by basic human rights. There is no need for additional protection because those acts are against basic moral rights afforded to all humans.

A legal right to marry is a whole different matter and depends entirely upon what a marriage is to begin with before any discussion of to whom the rights to marriage extend.

I suspect what is frustrating for many – like Bob – is the manner in which ideas and talk of “rights” are tossed about by individuals who fail to distinguish many of those ideas and have no clear concept of what the word “right” means to begin with.

 

[ProVobis]

Rich, white first world citizens have the luxury to be sentimental about lions. The people living in Africa don’t.

Time to pray to St. Francis.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

How does that not constitute ‘letting’ the lion take 40 hours to die? He would still be alive had this man not lured him out of the reservation and tried to kill him with a bow and arrow. Incompetently.

At that point it was his duty to ensure a clean kill. Can’t afford it? Don’t do it! Also not the the only criticism aimed at this hunt. By a long shot, to use an appropriate metaphor.

It seems that you don’t dispute the facts as I understand them, you just prefer a misleading description because you are so incensed at what occured.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Time to pray to St. Francis.

Or St. Hubertus.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I see a lot of hardness of heart masquerading as concern for the poor and the right to kill God’s creatures to satisfy bloodlust Not orthodox Catholicism at its best - actually a pretty decadent ugly sight IMHO. The Puritans are better than this. How did the faith get so corrupt - across the board it would seem. To me that is the message to ponder from this thread.

 

[sarah_j]

On a scale of 1 to 10 have problems we are facing in this world , with 10 being the highest , the death of the Cecil the lion ranks in the bottom minus five or to be even more blunt-I could not care less about Cecil the lion .

I’ll second that.

 

[Joe_5859]

In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions

Winston-Salem, N.C. — MY mind was absorbed by the biochemistry of gene editing when the text messages and Facebook posts distracted me.

So sorry about Cecil.

Did Cecil live near your place in Zimbabwe?

Cecil who? I wondered. When I turned on the news and discovered that the messages were about a lion killed by an American dentist, the village boy inside me instinctively cheered: One lion fewer to menace families like mine.

My excitement was doused when I realized that the lion killer was being painted as the villain. I faced the starkest cultural contradiction I’d experienced during my five years studying in the United States.

Did all those Americans signing petitions understand that** lions actually kill people**? That all the talk about Cecil being “beloved” or a “local favorite” was media hype? Did Jimmy Kimmel choke up because Cecil was murdered or because he confused him with Simba from “The Lion King”?

In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.

**The American tendency to romanticize animals **that have been given actual names and to jump onto a hashtag train has turned an ordinary situation — there were 800 lions legally killed over a decade by well-heeled foreigners who shelled out serious money to prove their prowess — into what seems to my Zimbabwean eyes an absurdist circus.

PETA is calling for the hunter to be hanged. Zimbabwean politicians are accusing the United States of staging Cecil’s killing as a “ploy” to make our country look bad. And Americans who can’t find Zimbabwe on a map are applauding the nation’s demand for the extradition of the dentist, unaware that a baby elephant was reportedly slaughtered for our president’s most recent birthday banquet.

We Zimbabweans are left shaking our heads, wondering why Americans care more about African animals than about African people.

nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html?_r=0

I think everyone should read through this entire article before continuing the conversation.

 

[ucfengr]

I think everyone should read through this entire article before continuing the conversation.

Don’t be silly. “Black lives matter” only when they’re killed by cops. By lions, not so much.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I see a lot of hardness of heart masquerading as concern for the poor and the right to kill God’s creatures to satisfy bloodlust Not orthodox Catholicism at its best - actually a pretty decadent ugly sight IMHO. The Puritans are better than this. How did the faith get so corrupt - across the board it would seem. To me that is the message to ponder from this thread.

I see a lot of uncharitableness in this thread masqurading as concern for wild animals.

Let us pray to St. Hubertus for his help.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[FollowChrist34]

I think everyone should read through this entire article before continuing the conversation.

I read it.

We Zimbabweans are left shaking our heads, wondering why Americans care more about African animals than about African people.

Expressing concern about this killing does not automatically mean that I care more about animals than people in Africa or elsewhere. That is absurd. It is like saying because I love broccoli I hate all fruit. The topic is trophy hunting from an ethical standpoint. An American did this killing; I as an American have a right to comment on the act, which I believe to be heinous. It’s a straw man argument to say that expressing my condemnation is the same thing as what PETA is saying. It is not. The author is addressing that kind of fanaticism. He says nothing about conservation of animals or the ethics of trophy hunting. I am entitled to my opinion on these issues.

Is this man a practicing Christian I wonder? It would be interesting to know.

Don’t tell us what to do with our animals when you allowed your own mountain lions to be hunted to near extinction in the eastern United States. Don’t bemoan the clear-cutting of our forests when you turned yours into concrete jungles.

No argument here, dude, none at all. We’re on the same page. Though you may get some from others on this thread. Do I detect a slight note of condemnation on wiping out mountain lions? Does this man not care about the American hungry and poor??? The threat of mountain lions to our population? And what are to do with slam at Western progress / development of the land? “concrete jungle?”

And please, don’t offer me condolences about Cecil unless you’re also willing to offer me condolences for villagers killed or left hungry by his brethren, by political violence, or by hunger.

Done.

Oh and I also care as much about the baby elephant and the giraffe and all of the nameless dead lions as Cecil.

Back to the conversation.

 

[pianistclare]

I think everyone should read through this entire article before continuing the conversation.

YES. That’s why I posted it. Not one person responded. Thanks Joe!

 

[pianistclare]

I read it.

Expressing concern about this killing does not automatically mean that I care more about animals than people in Africa or elsewhere. That is absurd. It is like saying because I love broccoli I hate all fruit. The topic is trophy hunting from an ethical standpoint. An American did this killing; I as an American have a right to comment on the act, which I believe to be heinous. It’s a straw man argument to say that expressing my condemnation is the same thing as what PETA is saying. It is not. The author is addressing that kind of fanaticism. He says nothing about conservation of animals or the ethics of trophy hunting. I am entitled to my opinion on these issues.

Is this man a practicing Christian I wonder? It would be interesting to know.

No argument here, dude, none at all. We’re on the same page. Though you may get some from others on this thread. Do I detect a slight note of condemnation on wiping out mountain lions? Does this man not care about the American hungry and poor??? The threat of mountain lions to our population? And what are to do with slam at Western progress / development of the land? “concrete jungle?”

Done.

Oh and I also care as much about the baby elephant and the giraffe and all of the nameless dead lions as Cecil.

Back to the conversation.

So, basically, you don’t care what people who actually live there think.
Nice.
Life in Zimbabwe can’t be equated to anything like “life” in the U.S.
They have a different reality. And yeah, they get to express it.
Even if it ruffles politically correct feathers.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I see a lot of uncharitableness in this thread masqurading as concern for wild animals.

Let us pray to St. Hubertus for his help.

Actually it is a concern for a life in the spirit.

You should put away the old self of your former way of life,
corrupted through deceitful desires,
and be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
and put on the new self, created in God’s way in righteousness and holiness of truth."
Ephesians 4:22-24

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
has set me free from the law of sin and death.
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do:
sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,
he condemned sin in the flesh,
in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh,
but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
To set the mind on the flesh is death,
but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Romans 8:2-6

If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,
yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead
will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh -
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die;
but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:10-14

Pray for us Mary. That we live in peace and compassion toward all. That we do not engage in unnecessary destruction or cruelty. That we are free from hate. That we fight the devil wherever he may be. Inside of us or outside of us. Amen.

 

[FollowChrist34]

So, basically, you don’t care what people who actually live there think.
Nice.
Life in Zimbabwe can’t be equated to anything like “life” in the U.S.
They have a different reality. And yeah, they get to express it.
Even if it ruffles politically correct feathers.

? It’s one person. I agree with him on some issues, not on others. I seriously engaged and answered his main point. How exactly does that get me to “not caring about what people who actually live there think”? Your accusation is inaccurate and out of line.

 

[Joe_5859]

I read it.

Expressing concern about this killing does not automatically mean that I care more about animals than people in Africa or elsewhere. That is absurd. It is like saying because I love broccoli I hate all fruit. The topic is trophy hunting from an ethical standpoint. An American did this killing; I as an American have a right to comment on the act, which I believe to be heinous. It’s a straw man argument to say that expressing my condemnation is the same thing as what PETA is saying. It is not. The author is addressing that kind of fanaticism. He says nothing about conservation of animals or the ethics of trophy hunting. I am entitled to my opinion on these issues.

Is this man a practicing Christian I wonder? It would be interesting to know.

No argument here, dude, none at all. We’re on the same page. Though you may get some from others on this thread. Do I detect a slight note of condemnation on wiping out mountain lions? Does this man not care about the American hungry and poor??? The threat of mountain lions to our population? And what are to do with slam at Western progress / development of the land? “concrete jungle?”

Done.

Oh and I also care as much about the baby elephant and the giraffe and all of the nameless dead lions as Cecil.

Back to the conversation.

My purpose in drawing attention to the article was not to imply that particular people in this thread care more about lions than people. I don’t think that’s true. I simply found it to be enlightening to see the perspective of someone from that country and how it runs counter to most of the media coverage.

I haven’t really looked into this story too much. I came back from vacation to find that the media coverage of the undercover Planned Parenthood videos had been bumped by an African lion and so curiosity got the better of me. I am no hunter, and I’m certainly in favor of treating animals ethically. But I was a bit taken aback by some of the posts on the first page calling for this guy to be hanged or have his teeth pulled out. In denouncing what we perceive to be inhumane acts, we don’t want to be inhumane ourselves.

 

[adrift]

YES. That’s why I posted it. Not one person responded. Thanks Joe!

What post?

 

[pianistclare]

? It’s one person. I agree with him on some issues, not on others. I seriously engaged and answered his main point. How exactly does that get me to “not caring about what people who actually live there think”? Your accusation is inaccurate and out of line.

No it’s not.
Repeatedly quoting Scripture to make your point for you does not address the facts of life in Africa for people who live in the bush. You completely disregard the reality of their lives among wild animals. Sounds uncaring to me.
If we can’t see the forest for the trees, er, lions, then “oh well”.
And btw, it’s a forum. People post. You are free to disagree.
Just as I, and many others do.

 

[FollowChrist34]

My purpose in drawing attention to the article was not to imply that particular people in this thread care more about lions than people. I don’t think that’s true. I simply found it to be enlightening to see the perspective of someone from that country and how it runs counter to most of the media coverage.

I haven’t really looked into this story too much. I came back from vacation to find that the media coverage of the undercover Planned Parenthood videos had been bumped by an African lion and so curiosity got the better of me. I am no hunter, and I’m certainly in favor of treating animals ethically. But I was a bit taken aback by some of the posts on the first page calling for this guy to be hanged or have his teeth pulled out. In denouncing what we perceive to be inhumane acts, we don’t want to be inhumane ourselves.

Yes, I have commented previously on the danger of unleashing PETA-esque bloodlust. The dentist mentality reversed. It is horrifying. I guess I just assume that no Christian would engage in that and that we all know that but alas that is not the case. So, to clarify, that has never been my position. I have posted against Planned Parenthood all along. I can handle both stories at the same time. I can value babies over lions. I can value all animals killed unnecessarily right along with Cecil. It is not either or. Single issue. It’s called compassion.

 

[qui_est_ce]

How does that not constitute ‘letting’ the lion take 40 hours to die? He would still be alive had this man not lured him out of the reservation and tried to kill him with a bow and arrow. Incompetently.

At that point it was his duty to ensure a clean kill. Can’t afford it? Don’t do it! Also not the the only criticism aimed at this hunt. By a long shot, to use an appropriate metaphor.

How long does the lion allow its prey to die? I think lions eat the products of their hunts alive.

 

[FollowChrist34]

No it’s not.
Repeatedly quoting Scripture to make your point for you does not address the facts of life in Africa for people who live in the bush. You completely disregard the reality of their lives among wild animals. Sounds uncaring to me.
If we can’t see the forest for the trees, er, lions, then “oh well”.
And btw, it’s a forum. People post. You are free to disagree.
Just as I, and many others do.

Not quite sure what I can get out of this - just a string of disconnected accusations not particularly well thought out or responsive to my posts.

Post away. Where did I say anything about people posting? I thought that was why we have threads. Oh, and I have been consistent and clear throughout this thread that I value the lives of people (guess what - I DON’T even care what country they come from) as much as animals. That is what I call life in the spirit. See above Scripture quotes. I can’t even see the point of our disagreement - honestly.