I don’t know about the specific Lectio Divinia. There are many form of Lectio Divina. Lectio Divina per se is not a condemnable practice and it could be use to foster spiritual growth, just like contemplative prayer. It’s the perverse version of it that could be dangerous (whcih is also the case with contemplative prayer).
Alan, deal with the biggest stumbling block that proof CP to be erroneous first: Human Divinity.
The long paragraph from the Cloud of Unknowing doesn’t mention mantra like Thomas Keating Guideline.
Apple and orange. You can not equate being a Zen Master to being an engineer, MD or even an MBA. Zen is profoundly pagan phylosophy with elements of pagan religion.
This amounts to “Church worship”, which is absolutely a form of idolatry. My loyalty belongs to God, and God alone. True, Christ gave us the Church, but you worship it to the point that the means have become more important to you than the end.
How often does one have to repeat a word before it becomes “repetitious” in your eyes? Once a second? Once a minute? Once a year? Gently bringing our attention back to a word every couple of minutes or so, is not, in my mind, repetition. I’d also offer that the word I use, “Jesus”, is certainly not vain. If you declare that Jesus is vain, I suggest you take it up with Him.
Because your criticism doesn’t hold water. You keep insisting you have a valid criticism, when in fact you can’t get past basic English definitions of words.
Those two are erroneous and debunked. If you don’t have a mastery of the English language, that’s not my problem. Please come back when you, I, and Webster’s all agree on the same definition. I shared my definition (and Webster’s) of the word mantra in an earlier post. You seem to have your own.
Oh please… Political faction? Are you talking about the Black Pope? LOL Sorry couldn’t resist. Anyway… It seems that you’re still burshing of any claim to CP by saying that it’s not convrete. Be a little more honest. You have hinted that there are even more questionable practice (per my point of view, as you said) in CP seminar or whatnot. And as we see monks becoming a Zen Master that is indeed one concrete sign of what’s wrong with CP, not to mention the human divinity.
It’s obviously you didn’t read the Cloud of Unknowing, because the EXACT SAME terminology is used, suggesting the use of a word to bring ourselves back to God. Your ignorance is blinding. You can’t even lie well. If you didn’t read the book, you didn’t read the book. No need to claim you did. Those of us that have, however, can see you didn’t very quickly, and that you’re obviously uneducated in this area. Bye!
Good that you finally able to not paint a broad brush.
Strawman. I didn’t even said that we should worship the Church.
Repetition =/= Vain repetition.
Why yes. the word “Jesus” could also be used as vain repetition.
And you pointing out to me that the name “Jesus” can not be used vainly and repetitiously show knowledge of basic English definition?
Mantra. It seems that what Thomas Keating suggested on the guideline is indeed mantra according to that definition.
Ahh, the art of name calling.
I never claim to have read the book. So that’s a strawman.
OK, I’ll be a little more honest. Here’s the big “secret” I have withholding from you. I actually heard Fr. Keating discussing concepts related to “evolution” in one video. Woo-oooh!
Dan impresses me with his reaction to problems I bring him, but doesn’t always say what I want to hear. He seems perfectly at peace and just goes ahead and runs his prayer meetings and does his teachings, and places his faith in the Holy Spirit. I’m more like Peter, I guess, wanting to stand up for God as in chopping off the soldier’s ear. Sigh. I just find it so difficult to stand by and turn the other cheek while all this is being said. I suppose I am motivated through fear that people who may have a calling to this contemplative life including centering prayer or whatever methods of prayer they use, are going to miss it because they are dissuaded from it by some uninformed remark. He is right; I should have more faith.
If the shoe fits…
This may show why you have such a problem with interreligious dialog. You seem to think that anybody who disagrees with you should be dispensed with. No wonder you embrace that disgraceful 1928 document over current day. From the way you argue, I thought you were probably very young and inexperienced, but from the way you cling to obsolete mindsets, you seem very old and closed minded.
Dear Kaily,
Tell me more.
It’s compatible with pagan Eastern religion. And make people welcome the pagan concept.
Does it?If the shoe fits…
Recall that he’s the one who don’t want to have anything to do anymore. So don’t take it on me.
I really don’t wanna say unless it’s not really pertinance to the discussion. It’s not in Art or Theology.
As I said, I forwarded the negative comments about CP from the poster on freerepublic.com, along with a link to the article by Fr. Dreher to our regional Contemplative Outreach rep. I also commented about the possibility of politics, considering the nature of the intellectual struggle over this.
Here is his reply:
So. There’s a God of TM but CP is not like that. What about the human divinity?
And maybe there’s a little caution on saying, “Let’s the spirit take care of that”. Because The Spirit works through us. Remember the story about the Jesus statue with no arms?
But the thing is, CP is questionable. All the red flags are raising. You shouldn’t be too defensive of CP like it’s your livelihood. You shouled search for the truth. If CP is heretical then face it.Dan impresses me with his reaction to problems I bring him, but doesn’t always say what I want to hear. He seems perfectly at peace and just goes ahead and runs his prayer meetings and does his teachings, and places his faith in the Holy Spirit. I’m more like Peter, I guess, wanting to stand up for God as in chopping off the soldier’s ear. Sigh. I just find it so difficult to stand by and turn the other cheek while all this is being said. I suppose I am motivated through fear that people who may have a calling to this contemplative life including centering prayer or whatever methods of prayer they use, are going to miss it because they are dissuaded from it by some uninformed remark. He is right; I should have more faith.
I will try to have more faith and not be so defensive about CP, but I am weak.
Alan
This is amazing. I was not talking about the fact the somebody else decided not to post, but that your comment was “good riddance.”
So even if you consider contemplatives as less honorable than yourself, should you really be telling them to go away? How are you going to evangelize with that attitude?
OK, but I was just curious. I had conjectured that you might share on the basis that either your degree was pertinent, or that you didn’t mind sharing information that isn’t pertinent, since you offered, without anybody asking you, that you had an MS degree.