Certain attitudes in traddom

[Dragonslayer]

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It may not be true for your area in Austrialia — but it is within the Society – non the less.
More info as to how SSPX women – were “convinced” – to not wear pants can be found by doing a google search for —Fr. John Rizzo Slacks II.

Oh yea – this “encouragement to dress like women” — looks to be – more akin to manipulative brainwashing.

No it is not true, and I think it is misleading to give the impression that the SSPX regards it as “a mortal sin to wear pants”.

It is simply not true, in Australia or anywhere in the SSPX. And I also think to provide one quote on a traditional forum to support your argument is also misleading & mischevious. The quote was actually refuted on that same site, with the following response being accurate;

**I]No offense to your priest, but that is being over scrupulous to the extreme and creating a sin where there is none. **

It is akin to saying the “modern” Catholic Church does not believe in Purgatory, because of a quote in this forum attributed to a liberal priest who said this very thing in his sermon.

Their are extreme views throughout the Catholic Church, both traditional and liberal, and many inacuracies have been stated and repeated. But that does not mean these innacuracies are true or accepted by the whole.

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking_Home:

Well – it depends on the mental health of the individual.

whether he/she was raised by SSPX parents ?

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Again–it depends on the mental health of the individual. If certain individuals are raised in a manner – where they would have difficulty interacting with society – watching the news–can have a negative result.

 

[Dragonslayer]

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All I am saying --once the bunker mentality/withdrawing from society creeps in – it can lead to anything —and the end result may not be healthy.

Once again, you seem to be referring to the SSPX? Do you have evidence of SSPX “withdrawing from society”?

At our parish the families mix with the local community in areas of sport, music, community service, schools, work etc. In fact, our SSPX priests actively encourage it, to ensure there is a balance in our life, provided of course that the balance includes placing God above wordly matters. But I have always assumed this was just being Catholic.

There is also a mixing between the sexes, but we do try to ensure these activities are supervised by adults. Formal dances, picnics, sporting events, parties etc are all involved. Surprisingly to some I’m sure, but all quite “normal” stuff really.

I don’t want to make our parish or our parishioners out to be perfect, far from it, but we are not the evil, reclusive sect that we have been made out to be either.

 

[At_Trent]

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Again–it depends on the mental health of the individual. If certain individuals are raised in a manner – where they would have difficulty interacting with society – watching the news–can have a negative result.

you are obsessed with this aren’t you ?

 

[Viola_Incognita]

No it is not true, and I think it is misleading to give the impression that the SSPX regards it as “a mortal sin to wear pants”.

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**I]No offense to your priest, but that is being over scrupulous to the extreme and creating a sin where there is none. **

It is akin to saying the “modern” Catholic Church does not believe in Purgatory, because of a quote in this forum attributed to a liberal priest who said this very thing in his sermon.

Their are extreme views throughout the Catholic Church, both traditional and liberal, and many inacuracies have been stated and repeated. But that does not mean these innacuracies are true or accepted by the whole.

They may not be accepted by the whole, nor brought to the extreme of saying it’s a mortal sin for a woman to wear pants, but these ideas are out there being used on people. (And I do not intend a mean tone; I am just trying to say what I experienced.)

My mother and her cronies were on the edges of SSPX (this is where the mental health comment stings a bit), and let me tell you, it was a brave thing for me to ever wear pants to church or go there with my head uncovered. I felt the peer pressure and I felt the pressure within myself. But luckily, I don’t have to go to church with them anymore!

It was as though what one wore or what you had on your head was what going to church was about. But it’s the inside that matters! Conversion of heart!

Sometimes raising one’s children as you see fit isn’t a loving way to raise them, nor might it really instill Christian values or virtues.

But maybe that was just my mom… maybe it’s different for other people…

 

[TrueLight]

There is also a mixing between the sexes, but we do try to ensure these activities are supervised by adults. Formal dances, picnics, sporting events, parties etc are all involved. Surprisingly to some I’m sure, but all quite “normal” stuff really.

Emphasis mine.

That is exactly how it should be.

 

[Walking_Home]

No it is not true, and I think it is misleading to give the impression that the SSPX regards it as “a mortal sin to wear pants”.

It is simply not true, in Australia or anywhere in the SSPX. And I also think to provide one quote on a traditional forum to support your argument is also misleading & mischevious. The quote was actually refuted on that same site, with the following response being accurate;

**I]No offense to your priest, but that is being over scrupulous to the extreme and creating a sin where there is none. **

It is akin to saying the “modern” Catholic Church does not believe in Purgatory, because of a quote in this forum attributed to a liberal priest who said this very thing in his sermon.

Their are extreme views throughout the Catholic Church, both traditional and liberal, and many inacuracies have been stated and repeated. But that does not mean these innacuracies are true or accepted by the whole.​

As I said – I am not attributing that belief to all the SSPX. And it is not misleading to provide the quote – for it does prove – that such a mentality exists. Also --in the thread --where the quote came from – a few did disagree with the “no pants” --leading to a person being called a “liberal”. Again – just because there were a few on that thread – that countered the “no pants” – this does not discount – that the teaching of “pants are a mortal sin” exists.

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking_Home:

Again–it depends on the mental health of the individual. If certain individuals are raised in a manner – where they would have difficulty interacting with society – watching the news–can have a negative result.

you are obsessed with this aren’t you ?

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Why – I am just responding. Are you obsessed --because you keep posting.

 

[At_Trent]

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Why – I am just responding. Are you obsessed --because you keep posting.

ok, I’ll just ignore you and then you can call it rude

edit : Actually, anyone would agree a parent can go too far on anything. But they could be atheist, Catholic, Taliban, whatever. I’d guess the % of bad calls in this regard would be be quite low in a Catholic family, trad/orthodox/liberal, doesn’t matter.

I just think you are trying, subtlety, to infer it’s a SSPX thing.

 

[Walking_Home]

ok, I’ll just ignore you and then you can call it rude

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Do whatever.

 

[JReducation]

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Just to say – I believe the segment of the SSPX with the extreme views --aligns itself with Bishop Williamson.

Maybe so, I have no way of knowing. I do know that his views are a tad over the top. However, my guess is that those who embrace such positions would also be a small number. I know that the SSPX has women religious. Don’t they teach? If so, they need a degree and in many countries they need licensing or certification.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Walking_Home]

Maybe so, I have no way of knowing. I do know that his views are a tad over the top. However, my guess is that those who embrace such positions would also be a small number. I know that the SSPX has women religious. Don’t they teach? If so, they need a degree and in many countries they need licensing or certification.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

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I do not know the size of the segment – that aligns itself with Bishop Williamson – but from the research I have done – he does have a following.

As to teaching positions – I found the following doing a search. From what is said below --it does not seem like a degree is required. How this works – for the SSPX – I don’t know.

ME, the latter. Most of the teachers are parishioners. Maybe a few might have secondary degrees in education or in their field, most don’t.
You don’t need a degree to be a good teacher but you do need to be more than a warm body that attends a SSPX chapel and as far as I can tell, for many of the schools there is no further requirement than that.

To the best of my knowledge the only requirement of a teacher for a SSPX is a high school diploma, 18 or older and regular Mass attendance at a SSPX Mass center, unless things have changed a lot since my nieces and nephews were in SSPX schools in multiple locales.

 

[archangel04]

I don’t know which kids you are around, but the kids in the City are dating in elementary school. And by dating, I mean at least tongue kissing with hands roaming. And some of the girls are having oral sex.

And it only stops there because the boys’ bodies are not ready to do more. Once they hit puberty at 11-13, they begin to do more.

Also, even though I was innocent when I was that age, we still did stuff like play “RCK” which is run, catch and kiss - anyone remember that? lol. It was innocent enough - just a peck, but with the influx of media where everything is sex, sex, sex, I can assure you, kids get started early.

Very true. I know many 13 and 14 year olds who havd sex already

 

[JReducation]

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I do not know the size of the segment – that aligns itself with Bishop Williamson – but from the research I have done – he does have a following.

As to teaching positions – I found the following doing a search. From what is said below --it does not seem like a degree is required. How this works – for the SSPX – I don’t know.

Hmmm, in the USA that would present a serious problem. I was a university dean for 35 years and I can tell you that the state universities look at accreditation when accepting students. If your teachers are not properly trained, your school will not be accredited.

This was not the case in the past. Many sisters did not have college degrees, but they had to go for them when accreditation became an issue.

I wonder how they grant diplomas.

I’m also surprised to hear that Bishop Williamson has a significant following. Bishop Fellay seems more middle of the road.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Dragonslayer]

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I do not know the size of the segment – that aligns itself with Bishop Williamson – but from the research I have done – he does have a following.

As to teaching positions – I found the following doing a search. From what is said below --it does not seem like a degree is required. How this works – for the SSPX – I don’t know.

The SSPX schools in Australia have a mix of Catholic (some SSPX, some not) & non-Catholic teachers. ALL are fully qualified teachers.

 

[Dragonslayer]

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I do not know the size of the segment – that aligns itself with Bishop Williamson – but from the research I have done – he does have a following.

As to teaching positions – I found the following doing a search. From what is said below --it does not seem like a degree is required. How this works – for the SSPX – I don’t know.

The SSPX schools in Australia have a mix of Catholic (some SSPX, some not) & non-Catholic teachers. ALL are fully qualified teachers.

Hmmm, in the USA that would present a serious problem. I was a university dean for 35 years and I can tell you that the state universities look at accreditation when accepting students. If your teachers are not properly trained, your school will not be accredited.

This was not the case in the past. Many sisters did not have college degrees, but they had to go for them when accreditation became an issue.

I wonder how they grant diplomas.

I’m also surprised to hear that Bishop Williamson has a significant following. Bishop Fellay seems more middle of the road.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Likewise in Australia. Schools can’t survive without federal funding, and that won’t occur without fully qualified teachers.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Schools can’t survive without federal funding

I know this was more of a side comment, then something central to the discussion, but I did want to point out that at least in the United States, this is not true.

Christendom College
Grove City College
Hillsdale College

Right there are three institutions of higher learning which don’t take any federal funding, including one traditional Catholic school. I’m aware of those three. There may be others as well.

Pax.

 

[Paxvobis]

The truth is that Catholic school kids don’t live in bubbles. It is unreasonable to ask the school to be the parent. That was never the intent of the Benedictines, who are the parents of Catholic education.

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We have assigned parenting to the school, public, private and religious. That’s an error in our society.

You’re right that schools shouldn’t be parents and that Catholic school kids don’t live in bubbles. But the schools shouldn’t engage in false advertising and should warn parents to do their jobs. That’s all I have to say.

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking_Home:

I do not know the size of the segment – that aligns itself with Bishop Williamson – but from the research I have done – he does have a following.

As to teaching positions – I found the following doing a search. From what is said below --it does not seem like a degree is required. How this works – for the SSPX – I don’t know.

The SSPX schools in Australia have a mix of Catholic (some SSPX, some not) & non-Catholic teachers. ALL are fully qualified teachers.

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The info I posted prior — was in response to the following question. As I said – I don’t know how this works for the SSPX. Whether it is depended on country and/or region. The ones having the discussion --from what I it seemed —were from the US.

I know this thread is really old, but I have a few questions. Is any sort of certification required to teach in SSPX schools (through the state, or something like the certification process from St. Mary College in Kansas)? Is a degree required? Or are the schools really in such need of teachers that they’ll accept anyone who seems decent?

 

[JReducation]

I know this was more of a side comment, then something central to the discussion, but I did want to point out that at least in the United States, this is not true.

Christendom College
Grove City College
Hillsdale College

Right there are three institutions of higher learning which don’t take any federal funding, including one traditional Catholic school. I’m aware of those three. There may be others as well.

Pax.

Actually, that’s not exact. I studied at Christendom with a Federal Grant. The grants are not given to the school, but the school does accept federal monies through the students who have Perkins and other Federal grants. Many students can only afford private colleges and universities with federal grants and federally backed loans. There are different ways to access federal money.

It is true that if the school applies for federal money, it must meet the DUNS requirements. Depending on what grant it is that you’re going for, you may not meet the requirement. I know that Catholic University, has never been able to open a medical school, because it will not teach abortion. Therefore, it will not qualify for many medical school grants.

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The info I posted prior — was in response to the following question. As I said – I don’t know how this works for the SSPX. Whether it is depended on country and/or region. The ones having the discussion --from what I it seemed —were from the US.

The thing about private institutions is that they don’t have to be accredited. The problem is that if your school is not accredited, there are many doors that are closed to you. For example, you may have problems transferring credits from school A to school B. Your degree may not qualify for licensing requirements. Your high school diploma may not qualify for admission to a state university. There are all kinds of hurdles that are avoided when you have accreditation. The hurdles are not the same in every state or every country.

I didn’t mean to go down the accreditation thread. I was just thinking about the schools run by the SSPX and asking what happens if such schools are so extreme right that they don’t qualify for accreditation? Are there many parents who send their kids to them?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF