Cheating Husband

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I fully understand the OP feelings and I think that she needs support. However, I would not blame Cargopilot for his comments in this thread. This is a thread in Moral Theology and not Family Life. Usually here we discuss aspects of moral issues and that it is what we are doing. I still encourage everybody in being respectful of the dignity of the OP. Like everybody else she does not need to be lectured on her personal situation, especially when we do not know all the details.
 
cargopilot,

As I said in a previous post, the OP already knows that and is already working on the problem, not assigning blame. You are the one that said that “the wife of the cheating husband must look within and share at least some inkling of the blame for the adulterous husband.” So which is it – blame or fixing the marriage?
I recommend each partner taking full responsibility for their individual behavior and get on with repairing and healing the damage done.
 
I fully understand the OP feelings and I think that she needs support. However, I would not blame Cargopilot for his comments in this thread. This is a thread in Moral Theology and not Family Life. Usually here we discuss aspects of moral issues and that it is what we are doing. I still encourage everybody in being respectful of the dignity of the OP. Like everybody else she does not need to be lectured on her personal situation, especially when we do not know all the details.
Thank you for understanding what I’m trying to say. I feel like I’m fighting a powerful headwind when everybody is on the bandwagon and focused on fixing all blame on the adulterous husband than realizing that both spouses must share in the reasons for the adultery in the first place. Honestly, if the roles were reversed and this was the ‘Cheating Wife’ thread, my position would remain the same. To me, adultery is a SYMPTOM of deeper problems. It’s more important for both to share the blame and focus primarily on saving the marriage.
 
Cargopilot is actually doing some good.

For one, those that are disputing him are ignoring a very important point. He is advocating sharing the blame. But EVERYONE who disputes Cargopilot immediately takes the position of foisting all the blame on one spouse or the other.

Accepting blame can be a very liberating thing. Especially for the spouse who has been cheated on. The reason is because once they know that they had a hand in causing the problem they now have the power to prevent the problem.

If a person is cheated on, and there is nothing they could do about it (this does happen from time to time) they are helpless. I would imagine the healing is all that much more difficult and the hurt is all that deeper because there truly was nothing they could have done to prevent it, and nothing they can do to prevent another affair. This type of situation is really bad to be in.

But if a person is cheated on, and they are able to recognize that they contributed to the problem, they are now empowered to change things for the better. That power to change things helps the healing process because you can be engaged in working on improvements rather than stewing in depression.

The O.P. is a classic example. If you ask me she ought to be posting here to give support to the rest of the members, she’ll definitely be “leaven”.
 
I think blame might be the wrong word. And adultery is never justified no matter what. But cargopilot is right that adultery is almost always a symptom of a problem with in the marriage. How it works is that the cheating spouse feels that some important need is no longer being met by the spouse, they happen to stumble upon someone else who happense to meet these needs and before they know it they are in love with this other person with out knowing why or what even happened. A big common one is the changes that come with having kids, the wife shifts her attention to the kids and the husband feels less important. The key is to make sure you meet your spouses needs, make sure your spouse is given the oppurtunity to do so, and to avoid doing things that destroy the feelings of love between you. People fall in love because they meet each others needs, it is as simple as that. Too many people think that love is not important in a marriage, they think only commitment and faithfulness are important. These people are wrong, you should also be faithfully commited to creating and maintaing that feeling of love in your marriage, it is not something that only appears in a relationship at the beginning and it is wrong to expect your spouse to accept and be commited to a marriage that doesn’t have that feeling of love. If the feeling is gone you can and should work to change that and bring it back. Of course too many people in our society think this feeling is magical and creates itself and is somehow magically permanent when you find that one perfect true soul mate. If the relationship fails, oh well I guess he wasn’t “the one”. They marry and divorce and build all their relationships in search of this magical soul mate and behaving like that is irrational, immature, and causes many problems.
 
Just so you know…things have just gotten worse. I found him at her house this morning…I don’t even want to talk about it…
 
Just so you know…things have just gotten worse. I found him at her house this morning…I don’t even want to talk about it…
I am so sorry to hear that Love31. Know that I and others on this board are praying for you.

God bless.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jaque forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Cargopilot,

That might be why the Church teaches that the blame for adultery rests on BOTH spouses.


The Catholic Church teaches that? Could you please cite the Catechism?
I don’t know if it’s in the CCC. But Thomas Aquinas had this to say:

Further, marriage is directed to the avoiding of fornication (1 Corinthians 7:2). But this could not be the effect of marriage, if the one were not bound to pay the debt to the other when the latter is troubled with concupiscence…

But if [the husband] be rendered incapable [to pay the marriage debt] through some . . . unlawful cause, then he sins, and his wife’s sin, should she fall into fornication on this account, is somewhat imputable to him.
bold font mine. For further reading see: newadvent.org/summa/5064.htm
 
Just so you know…things have just gotten worse. I found him at her house this morning…I don’t even want to talk about it…
I am praying for you both of you, right now. And I will each time I recheck this thread.

Would either one of you consider Marriage Encounter? My wife and I have done it and plan to do it again. You can’t believe how many ways it can help. You see, I completely mistrust what I’ll call typical marriage counselors. I consider them pop culture’s flavor-of-the month. Nope, I would only go for the full-flavored Catholic version, which is exactly what I got, priest and all. I couldn’t put a price on what I/we got out of it. It gave me/us tools that helped us communicate better than we ever did in all these years.

There was this couple at our ME weekend that was on the brink of divorce. The very brink! Last I heard, they’re doin’ fine. I don’t want to say one blackmailed the other into going, but it was said that if the other agreed to go to ME and they still wanted to divorce afterwards, then they wouldn’t stand in the way, so much. But if the other WOULDN’T attend the weekend, they would make the divorce very ‘challenging’. Now, I’m not saying anyone should play it this way, or that’s even right, but it worked for them.

If I was ever your husband’s buddy, I’d just whomp him over the head with a 2x4 and say take your wife to a ME weekend and rediscover why you-all got married in the first place.

Again, Love31, for what it’s worth , I’m praying for you both.
 
Just so you know…things have just gotten worse. I found him at her house this morning…I don’t even want to talk about it…
oh sweetie…my heart goes out to you! You’re in my prayers…
 
Mary’s Kid,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jaque forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*But EVERYONE who disputes Cargopilot immediately takes the position of foisting all the blame on one spouse or the other.
I disagree. Be careful when you use absolutes.
Actually within the confines of this thread, my absolute does apply. The inappropriate use of an absolute is actually being done on the part of many of the women on this thread. When they take the position that blame is place on one person or the other, rather than shared.

Case in point:
You can’t blame a faithful spouse for the poor choices, bad boundaries and rationalizations of an unfaithful spouse. Some people in bad marriages don’t ever cheat even when the opportunity arises. They can’t seem to rationalize crossing that moral boundary.
Cargopilot and I contend that you can indeed place some of the blame on the so-called faithful spouse. The fact that one man married to a lousy wife can remain faithful doesn’t prove another man’s lousy wife is innocent. It only proves that the faithful man possesses heroic virtue and his wife is in debt to him. Those people who can’t cross that moral boundary are good and laudible people.

Perhaps it would make things clearer if you were to attribute more realistic modifiers to the people involved.

As you state, you can’t blame the *faithful *spouse for the poor choices of the unfaithful spouse. Note the italicized faithful presumes an innocence of the one spouse.

But can you blame the frigid spouse for the poor choices of the unfaithful spouse?

Keep in mind that blaming the frigid spouse would *not *mean excusing the unfaithful spouse. It happens all the time in law that more than one person gets punished for one crime. Why can’t more than one person be culpable for one sin?

Please understand that I’m referring to general terms. It is possible that the O.P. did everything a reasonable wife could to “affair-proof” her marriage. But we don’t know either way. Perhaps, as you suggested this is fodder for another thread…
 
Black Jaque,
I don’t have a lot of time to reply right now but what if the wife is frigid because of the neglect or objectification of her husband towards her? I’ll get back to this tomorrow.
 
Just so you know…things have just gotten worse. I found him at her house this morning…I don’t even want to talk about it…
You have my prayers Love, I can’t imagine the pain you must be going through. There are some good support groups out there online that you can lean on. “Marriage builders” has a message board filled with people like you who are struggling. It’s nice to have a place to go in an emergancy where no one knows you and your not alone.

There’s also “growthtrac” it’s a decent site and very helpful. It’s Christain.

Again I am so sorry this has happen to you my friend, you and your family have my prayers.
 
I am so sorry you are going through this, Love 31. You will be strong enough to survive this, because you have God on your side. You will be in my prayers.
 
That’s like saying “Because you yelled at me and made me angry, I have every right to beat you”

WHOEVER cheats has the problem. Thay had the choice to cheat or not.

Kathy
Anyone who has been around a bad marriage would understand that while the adulterer is culpable, there are not a majority of adulterers who left a loving, kind supportive spouse.

Cargopilot has not said that the adulterer is not responisble for their choice. He is simply pointing out that the other spouse has a hand in what goes on in the marriage too.

There are spouses who commit adultery who couldn’t make a good marriage if their life depended on it (not to mention their salvation); and there are those who turned to someone else not because their spouse yelled at them once, or twice, or a dozen times, but because their spouse demeaned and denigrated them over a period of years, and in weakness they responded to a perceived valuation of their person by someone who was actually kind, who treated them as something other than a scum-bag.

In no case is adultery an answer. But to those who are so quick to condemn the adulterer, perhaps some introspection and an even-handedness evaluation of the conditions of the marriage might be in order. All too often, it is not the act of adultery which breaks the marriage; the break occured long before because of the manner that the (later) adultering spouse was treated for a long period of time before the act of adultery.
 
Anyone who has been around a bad marriage would understand that while the adulterer is culpable, there are not a majority of adulterers who left a loving, kind supportive spouse.

Cargopilot has not said that the adulterer is not responisble for their choice. He is simply pointing out that the other spouse has a hand in what goes on in the marriage too.

There are spouses who commit adultery who couldn’t make a good marriage if their life depended on it (not to mention their salvation); and there are those who turned to someone else not because their spouse yelled at them once, or twice, or a dozen times, but because their spouse demeaned and denigrated them over a period of years, and in weakness they responded to a perceived valuation of their person by someone who was actually kind, who treated them as something other than a scum-bag.

In no case is adultery an answer. But to those who are so quick to condemn the adulterer, perhaps some introspection and an even-handedness evaluation of the conditions of the marriage might be in order. All too often, it is not the act of adultery which breaks the marriage; the break occured long before because of the manner that the (later) adultering spouse was treated for a long period of time before the act of adultery.
I don’t think this is the thread to have this kind of discussion, because fingerpointing isn’t what Love31 needs to hear right now. I have an adulterous spouse too, and believe me, I have been trying to figure out what I may have done to have him to have been betrayed like this.
 
…In no case is adultery an answer. But to those who are so quick to condemn the adulterer, perhaps some introspection and an even-handedness evaluation of the conditions of the marriage might be in order. All too often, it is not the act of adultery which breaks the marriage; the break occured long before because of the manner that the (later) adultering spouse was treated for a long period of time before the act of adultery.
If there are problems in the marriage that need to be worked on…then work on them…whatever that means. But the consequences of the act of adultery and the “blame” for what happens lie with the person who committed the adultery. The adulterer made the choice to cheat.Generally speaking, the spouse, who may or may not have contributed to the issues that lead up to the adultery, wasn’t asked by the other “is it OK if I cheat?”

Kathy
 
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