Chief Rabbinate of Israel break ties to Vatican

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Once they come under Romes authority they must submit to the authority of our pope

Our pope suffered much at the hand of the Nazis and ran away from them, at risk to his own life

Your thinly veiled dislike of Catholics is very evident

You can scour the net and find almost anything to indict anyone

If I was a mind to I am sure I could find a lot of anti catholic remarks made by Jews…I have seen some of it on this website

I know all Jews are not like this. I have Jewish cousins

Stop painting everyone with the same brush…
 
This is the truth right from the mouth of Bishop Fellay

He acknowledged “with great sadness” the damage done to the fraternity by Bishop Williamson, whose views “do not reflect in any sense the position of our Fraternity. For this reason I have prohibited him, pending any new orders, from taking any public positions on political or historical questions. We ask the forgiveness of the Supreme Pontiff, and of all people of good will, for the dramatic consequences of this act.”

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5604166.ece
 
Once they come under Romes authority they must submit to the authority of our pope

Our pope suffered much at the hand of the Nazis and ran away from them, at risk to his own life

Your thinly veiled dislike of Catholics is very evident

You can scour the net and find almost anything to indict anyone

If I was a mind to I am sure I could find a lot of anti catholic remarks made by Jews…I have seen some of it on this website

I know all Jews are not like this. I have Jewish cousins

Stop painting everyone with the same brush…
These aren’t remarks they are classic underlying anti Jewish attitudes which underwent reform in Vatican II. The SSPX couldn’t live with these reforms and broke away. Presumably the views of the SSPX toward Jews is not representative of today’s Catholicism.
 
These aren’t remarks they are classic underlying anti Jewish attitudes which underwent reform in Vatican II. The SSPX couldn’t live with these reforms and broke away. Presumably the views of the SSPX toward Jews is not representative of today’s Catholicism.
According to Bishop Fellay they are not the veiws of SSPX either…read what the times said and the Rabbi of Rome
 
This is the truth right from the mouth of Bishop Fellay

He acknowledged “with great sadness” the damage done to the fraternity by Bishop Williamson, whose views “do not reflect in any sense the position of our Fraternity. For this reason I have prohibited him, pending any new orders, from taking any public positions on political or historical questions. We ask the forgiveness of the Supreme Pontiff, and of all people of good will, for the dramatic consequences of this act.”

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5604166.ece
Bishop Williamson was not made to publicly retract his views and apologize to the Jewish people. Bishop Fellay can’t even bring himself to mention the word Jew or to apologize to them. What bothers Fellay is the damage done to the SSPX and the person whose forgiveness he seeks is the Pope.
 
You are judging others motives instead of being willing to forgive

You are holding a grudge…not very fair minded of you

You only want to see what you want to see
 
Another bridge built by Pope John Paul II built, that Pope Benedict has burned.

God have mercy on us.

Jim
The man was excommunicated for religious reasons, not his political views.

I see no reason for the Jews to be acting up like this. The lifting of the excommunication is an internal religious issue regarding the Catholic faith, not a political declaration.

Let them complain, they’re gonna stop one day.
 
You are judging others motives instead of being willing to forgive

You are holding a grudge…not very fair minded of you

You only want to see what you want to see
The views of the SSPX toward the Jews are well known and documented. It is you who wish to see only what you want to see. It is you and others here who see no problem with these beliefs and the fact that they are held by Church officials who presumably are to act as moral guides and advisers to adherents of your faith.
 
Bishop Fellay just stated the views of his society…Your opinion is not credible to me at all…

It is clear you don’t want to meet anyone half way…You want to control everything through your own personal filter

PS he did ask forgiveness from all people of good will…I guess you feel that doesn’t include you …and he ordered Williamson not to make any more remarks
 
Bishop Fellay just stated the views of his society…Your opinion is not credible to me at all…

It is clear you don’t want to meet anyone half way…You want to control everything through your own personal filter

PS he did ask forgiveness from all people of good will…I guess you feel that doesn’t include you …and he ordered Williamson not to make any more remarks
The SSPX and their attitudes towards Jews:

for killing Jesus] is the punishment of blindness to the things of God and eternity, of deafness to the call of conscience and to the love of good and hatred of evil which is the basis of all moral life, of spiritual paralysis, of total preoccupation with an earthly kingdom."
– The Angelus, March 2004 (Reposted on SSPX USA Web site)

“[T]he Antichrist will be Jewish….The devil will not fail to make use of their blindness to foist the Antichrist upon them. Christ, whom they have rejected, is the Truth. Thus the curse of St. Paul will apply to the Jews…”
– From “Is Anti-Christ Coming?” by Rev. Fr. Emmanuel Herkel, SSPX

“The Jewish people, once a mystery of goodness, is now changed into a mystery of iniquity. It is no longer Isaac, but Ishmael. No longer Jacob, but Esau. No longer Abel, but Cain.”
– “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” By Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).

“Judaism is inimical to all nations in general, and in a special manner to Christian nations…. The Jewish people, if it has not converted to Christianity, will, even if it does not wish to, seek to ruin Christianity… Christendom and Jewry are destined inevitably to meet everywhere without reconciliation or mixing. It represents in history the eternal struggle of Lucifer against God, of darkness against the Light, of the flesh against the spirit.”
– “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).

“As once they treated Christ, ever since, to persecute Christianity is their theological preoccupation. This theological law is stronger than all human plans and expedients. The Jewish people realizes this law. The law contained in the Talmud, which governs Jews, orders enmity with Christians….The Talmud got particularly virulent after Christianity appeared. Insolent and sacrilegious infamies against Christ and Christians were written into it, which is why copies were burnt by order of Christian rulers and popes.”
– “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magaine).

“A Catholic prelate who visits and prays at a synagogue betrays Jesus Christ, as the visit grants public legitimacy to a religion that holds Jesus Christ in disdain, believing Him to be a liar and deceiver.”
– Ecumenical Archbishop Levada to Head Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, by John Vennari
 
Save your breath,You’re a clear as a pane of glass, and I am not interested in vendettas
 
As early as 200 the Church author Tertullian remarked that as Catholic faith goes up, so Jewish power goes down, while as Catholic faith goes down, so Jewish power goes up. In the Catholic Middle Ages the Jews were relatively impotent to harm Christendom, but as Catholics have grown over the centuries since then weaker and weaker in the faith, especially since Vatican II, so the Jews have come closer and closer to fulfilling their substitute-Messianic drive towards world dominion."
– “WTC – The Scourge of Sin” by Bishop Richard Williamson,
October 1, 2001

“Unquestionably one main grievance of Arabs against the United States, provoking their terrorists to lash out as we have seen, is the United States’ one-sided favoring of Israel over the Arabs for the last forty years. But each time the United States attempts to act even-handedly towards the Arabs, Jewish power inside the United States - e.g. virtual control of finance and the media - blocks the attempt, and the United States returns to oppressing the Arabs.”
– “WTC – The Scourge of Sin” by Bishop Richard Williamson,
October 1, 2001

"On the political level, we can be virtually certain that the vile media will not tell us the full story. There is serious reason to believe–that in 1898, it was not the Spaniards who sank the “USS Maine”; that in 1917, it was not the Germans who set up the “Lusitania” as a target; that in 1941 it was not the Japanese who set up Pearl Harbor for attack; that in 1963 it was not Lee Harvey Oswald who killed President Kennedy. In 1990 it was certainly not Saddam Hussein who promised not to react if he invaded Kuwait. In 1994 it was certainly not Timothy McVeigh’s van exploding outside the Alfred Murrah building in Oklahoma City which brought the front of the building down. In 2001…? Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, now Osama bin Laden, from CIA-assets to personal enemies of the American people --how many more times will the trick work?

“Politically, behind the Arab terrorists are most likely the would-be architects of the New World Order, who have long been using the United States as an instrument to achieve their control of the world. Long ago they planned three World Wars to achieve their aim. It is they who provoked the sinking of the “Lusitania” and the attack on Pearl Harbor to bring the USA into the first two. Now they seem to be using the Arabs also. Humanly, they are clever. They are even diabolically clever.”
– “WTC – The Scourge of Sin” by Bishop Richard Williamson, October 1, 2001

"[Jews are] unable to perpetrate evil except also in a great, a terrible way. We will discuss four of these ways….
  1. The Jewish people persecute Christendom….
  2. The Jewish people conspire against the Christian State….
  3. The Jewish people win control of property by usury….
  4. Jews are known to kill Christians….
    As grisly as they are, these four accusations can be documented in every period and country where Jews live with Christians."
    – From “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (Originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).
“[T]hough the Jewish people must be protected, it was recognized [by the Church that] it was dangerous enough to be isolated into its own neighborhoods. Was this an offense against its natural human rights? —No, for this people refuses to assimilate itself into the country that gives it hospitality, and lives by Talmudic laws contrary to the common good.”
– From “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (Originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).

“[T]he Jewish people hope to exercise their astuteness to realize their ancient dream of a world empire.”
– From “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (Originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).

“Judaism has created international capitalism to gain international wealth…. Beyond its financial influence, Judaic thinking comes to dominate the cultural and educational fields. The pattern repeats: Jews get into posts of influence, and submit society to a high degree of corruption in ways of thinking and acting, which leads to a reaction of public opinion against them.”

– From “The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (Originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).

“God puts in men’s hands the ‘Protocols of the Sages of Sion’ and the ‘Rakovsky Interview,’ if men want to know the truth, but few do.”
– Bishop Richard Williamson, May 1, 2000

“[Jews are] a wild solitary people, rebellious against all law, hostile to all fraternity, shut against every beautiful, noble and generous ideal; a miserable little nation made bitter by isolation, made brutish by a narrow education, demoralized and corrupted by an unjustifiable pride.”
“The Mystery of the Jewish People in History” by Rev. Frs. Michael Crowdy & Kenneth Novak (quoting from l’Antisemitisme by Bernard Lazare, 1894. Originally printed in the April 1997 issue of The Angelus magazine).
 
In what way would declining to lift the excommunication from an arrogant, conspiracy-mongering, anti-Semitic closet-sedevacantist be “denying the faith?”
Because anti-semitism and bigotry aren’t heresy. If the pope is actually a sign of unity for the Church as has been claimed then it is his job to lift the excommunication. Whether the bishop believes the Holacaust was fabricated or not is irrelevant.

It is not the popes job to appease the Jews. The unity of the Church is far more important. And if the feelings of the Jews are more important than unity to the pope then the west is wrong about everything it says about the pope.
 
Because anti-semitism and bigotry aren’t heresy. If the pope is actually a sign of unity for the Church as has been claimed then it is his job to lift the excommunication. Whether the bishop believes the Holacaust was fabricated or not is irrelevant.

It is not the popes job to appease the Jews. The unity of the Church is far more important. And if the feelings of the Jews are more important than unity to the pope then the west is wrong about everything it says about the pope.
Are the SSPX attitudes towards the Jews (see above post #99 & post #101) accepted or rejected by the Catholic Church? Those attitudes are part and parcel of the SSPX.
 
They are old articles that are years old…They have been in talks with Rome for decades…They have put themselves under the authority of the pope, and they must submit to his will

Williamson will not be free to make any more of his statements…I am glad for the unification…it is in the best interest of those that want to move ahead

There are always people who want to stop reconciliation…I suspect that is why Williamson popped off hoping he could stop it

Well he couldn’t and neither can you…It is the will of God that we forgive and start over
 
Are the SSPX attitudes towards the Jews (see above post #99 & post #101) accepted or rejected by the Catholic Church? Those attitudes are part and parcel of the SSPX.
First, they are not part of the SSPX as the letter of Bernard Fellay mentioned in the article shows. It denounces bishop Williamson’s views on the Holocaust.

Second, they have nothing to do with doctrine. If the SSPX holds the same doctrine then it is the popes job to foster unity. The bishop has taken a possition on a historical event that does not determine the doctrines of our faith. Maybe he is wrong about his position and maybe it doesn’t represent charity but it is not something that they can be excommunicated over.

I would like to point out that the bishop did not say anything negative about the Jews. He denied that there were 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust. It is not necessarily anti-semitic. I disagree with his view but it isn’t necessarily anti-semitism.
 
since the holocaust, any negative comments about jews in large is considered antisemitism. the nazis show how satan hates jews because of what they represent, God’s chosen people. now, catholics are much more conscious of avoiding antisemitic language.

but prior to the holocaust, negative comments about jews were similar to negative comments about islam today.

the sspx speaks in pre-vatican II language. many saints of the church can be considered antisemetic to our modern sensitivities.
 
since the holocaust, any negative comments about jews in large is considered antisemitism. the nazis show how satan hates jews because of what they represent, God’s chosen people. now, catholics are much more conscious of avoiding antisemitic language.

but prior to the holocaust, negative comments about jews were similar to negative comments about islam today.

the sspx speaks in pre-vatican II language. many saints of the church can be considered antisemetic to our modern sensitivities.
The SSPX hasn’t changed and worse they have been invited back without changing. The split with the Church because they could not stomach Vatican II reforms, not least of which the reforms of attitudes toward Jews. Through their website, through books and tapes and interviews they have promulgated the ideas of the Jew as guilty of deicide, the Jew as cursed for rejecting “god”, the Jew as seeking world domination, the Jew as contaminating and destroying Christianity. To the best of my knowledge their is not a single group that monitors anti-semitism that has not labeled the SSPX as virulently anti-semitic.
 
The SSPX hasn’t changed and worse they have been invited back without changing. The split with the Church because they could not stomach Vatican II reforms, not least of which the reforms of attitudes toward Jews.
Please, please, please read some of the many threads posted on what has actually happened and what it means in terms of the SSPX.
  1. No group has been “invited back”. **Four individuals **had canonical penalties lifted. These penalties were incurred due to specific ACTIONS not because of theological views.
  2. The SSPX has “issues” with the way ‘no salvation outside the Church’ has been expressed since Vatican II. This isn’t a singling out of Jews, it is a change in how the Church views ALL those of other religions. This difference in views was not one of the reasons for the excommunication.
  3. The lifting of the excommunications means that discussion can move forward regarding if and how the followers of the SSPX can rejoin in practice and organization the rest of the Church. Once those discussions move forward, individual views and positions will be addressed. This is just the first step.
  4. This is an internal disciplinary matter, as the Vatican has said many times. It is not for you or anyone else to second guess the motives of the parties involved.
 
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