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TC3033
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I’m sure that will go well to keep the relationship healthy…
Again, where is this said. From the link you posted, the Catholic Church has no rule or law requiring non-attendance…
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Ammi
Guest
If my son or daughter married outside the Church, they would not have a healthy relationship with the whole Church! Focussing on that would be my intentions. Not making them feel comfy in their unfaithful decision.I’m sure that will go well to keep the relationship healthy…
Did you even read the article?Again, where is this said. From the link you posted, the Catholic Church has no rule or law requiring non-attendance…
It’s much deeper than you want it to be. It’s not about an explicit rule. It’s a prudent issue which takes into account moral principles, which include not supporting a wrong decision. I cant support the State and God both, in this situation. I choose God and His Church.
What @TC3033 said.
What you say here almost implies that Almighty God is not capable of acknowledging “what is Caesar’s” and that Almighty God is not capable of looking past the rules of the Church and seeing into people’s hearts. The people in question may very well love each other and intend to remain together until death. They will be “married“ according to their own conscience. Their marriage may involve all things pleasing to God (love, commitment, raising children) except the technical aspect of being married in the Church. Jesus had about as much to say about emphasizing rules over compassion as He did about divorce and remarriage being adultery, and the fact that following Him would result in the division of families. It’s not the black and white, have to take a side scenario you want it to be.So in as much as I can support the Church’s law, i will, and only follow the State in as much as it does not offend God’s law. We cannot serve two masters. We have to take a side. Playing both is being Luke warm, and God may spit me out.
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TC3033
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OK, so you said you were going to show “conditional love”, etc… buy yet that will take steps that will drive a divide in between you. Could you imagine a parent introducing your husband or wife as the boyfriend or girlfriend (after the wedding)??? If that’s the stance a parent were to take, I wouldn’t expect them to be asked to be around all that often.If my son or daughter married outside the Church, they would not have a healthy relationship with the whole Church! Focussing on that would be my intentions. Not making them feel comfy in their unfaithful decision.
Whole thing. Although, I didn’t need to get past the part I quoted in italics up thread.Did you even read the article?
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Ammi
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Render to Ceasar, are things belonging to the State. Our fidelity to what constitutes a valid marriage belong to God. Our support, celebrations and encouragement belong to God. We only render to the State what does not take away what belongs to God.
If you see a State marriage which the Church dismisses for the couple to find a new lover, do you criticize that?
If you see a State marriage which the Church dismisses for the couple to find a new lover, do you criticize that?
I am not surprised that you have missed my point entirely. I think I’ve said all I can say here. For now, at least.Render to Ceasar, are things belonging to the State. Our fidelity to what constitutes a valid marriage belong to God. Our support, celebrations and encouragement belong to God. We only render to the State what does not take away what belongs to God.
If you see a State marriage which the Church dismisses for the couple to find a new lover, do you criticize that?
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Ammi
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You keep talking about Jesus and what He said about laws. Can you give an example?
“Render to Caesar” was referring to taxes.
“Render to God” was referring to our hearts, and our allegiance.
I am tired of the accusation that refraining from attending an invalid marriage is uncompassionate. This is a judgmental statement and mentality which has filled this thread.
Marrying outside the Church is no small technicality! It reflect a problem in the relationship a Catholic has with the Church. And I am not judging them, but I certainly dont want to support that contempt for the Church. This needs attention, healing, education. Attending a wedding which is rejecting the Church is not supporting those things. It’s just telling them that the Church law is not important.
“Render to Caesar” was referring to taxes.
“Render to God” was referring to our hearts, and our allegiance.
I am tired of the accusation that refraining from attending an invalid marriage is uncompassionate. This is a judgmental statement and mentality which has filled this thread.
Marrying outside the Church is no small technicality! It reflect a problem in the relationship a Catholic has with the Church. And I am not judging them, but I certainly dont want to support that contempt for the Church. This needs attention, healing, education. Attending a wedding which is rejecting the Church is not supporting those things. It’s just telling them that the Church law is not important.
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TC3033
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Where has this “filled the thread”? What people are saying is: "Although it may not be your intention, not attending the marriage, there’s a good chance it will be perceived as being unloving, uncompassionte, unsupportive, etc… especially when the Church doesn’t have a rule against attending. I’m not exactly sure how you aren’t catching that.I am tired of the accusation that refraining from attending an invalid marriage is uncompassionate. This is a judgmental statement and mentality which has filled this thread.
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Ammi
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But what do you think?
Do you see better? Do you see that its not??? Do you see that it’s based on love and hope?
I have hope my son and daughter will not be so damaged and hard hearted. And even if they were, I would focus on healing that. I would be involved in their life. Oh!!! I already am!!! They will already know that I love them!
Do you see better? Do you see that its not??? Do you see that it’s based on love and hope?
I have hope my son and daughter will not be so damaged and hard hearted. And even if they were, I would focus on healing that. I would be involved in their life. Oh!!! I already am!!! They will already know that I love them!
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TC3033
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You asked me this once and I answered…But what do you think?
That’s your situation particular situation, but the parent’s decision to skip a child’s “big day” can go a Long way in “hardening a heart”.I have hope my son and daughter will not be so damaged and hard hearted. And even if they were, I would focus on healing that. I would be involved in their life. Oh!!! I already am!!! They will already know that I love them!
Like I’ve always said, Your (the general YOUR) call, but I would be ready to accept the consequences as I have seen them in real life.
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Ammi
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I guess you have to be a sincere Catholic. With a good relationship with your kids to understand and have trust and hope.
Anything I would say to this post would be something I’ve already said. If all the 300+ posts on this thread have not been able to get you to see the other side of things, I don’t think you are going to see things any other way no matter what anyone says. But, I’ll say this:
Sounds very technical to me.
#309. Please reread it.
Healing on the Sabbath even though that was technically against the rules, spending time with tax collectors, forgiving sins because someone showed great love… the list goes on.You keep talking about Jesus and what He said about laws. Can you give an example?
Quite frankly I’m tired of you not being able to see that a parent not being with their child on what the child perceives as their wedding day can be, and often is, a very, very hurtful thing for said child.I am tired of the accusation that refraining from attending an invalid marriage is uncompassionate. This is a judgmental statement and mentality which has filled this thread.
So, if a marriage involves two people who love each other and believe in their hearts that they are married, intend to stay together until death, raise children well, but haven’t married in the Church, Almighty God is not able to acknowledge any of that? Almighty God is not able to acknowledge that they love each other, are committed to each other, don’t intend to divorce, are raising children well, etc…none of that means anything at all because they are not married in the Church?Marrying outside the Church is no small technicality!
Sounds very technical to me.
And if that doesn’t work, then what? You can’t force someone to be Catholic when they don’t want to be. Even God doesn’t do that. And if they don’t want to be Catholic, they are going to continue to lead their life in other aspects of life. I talked about this in postIt reflect a problem in the relationship a Catholic has with the Church. And I am not judging them, but I certainly dont want to support that contempt for the Church. This needs attention, healing, education.
#309. Please reread it.
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Elf01
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8ecause it largely is. However, until the Church recognizes the marriages of those outside the Church it is invalid and should not be supported.Sounds very technical to me.
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TC3033
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I hope that you’re not saying that in order to have a good relationship with your kids, you need to be Catholic.I guess you have to be a sincere Catholic. With a good relationship with your kids to understand and have trust and hope.
Anywho – I’ve seen some of the best relationship get turned upside down over issues like this… In our family, three kids were married in the Catholic Church and two weren’t. They didn’t treat any of those weddings differently.
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Ammi
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In your examples of Catholics marrying outside the Church… and other Catholics attending…
Did any decide to convalidate?
Did any decide to convalidate?
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TC3033
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No, I highly doubt any of them will.
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Elf01
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Going doesn’t seem to have reconciled them with the Church then.No, I highly doubt any of them will.
I can’t find the quote now but I seem to remember you wanting them ‘to support you’.
How would you feel about somebody going but making their lack of support and celebration clear?
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Ammi
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There goes your whole point
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Ammi
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And I doubt it ever does. It’s only gonna support their choice not to be married in the Church.Going doesn’t seem to have reconciled them with the Church then.
Now, loving them apart from attending the wedding would help!
Someone is gonna reconcile or not, based on when they are ready to accept the Catholic faith and receive Eucharist.
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TC3033
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What point would that be? I think you may have me confused with another poster.There goes your whole point
You must have me confused with someone else, I never said it would.Going doesn’t seem to have reconciled them with the Church then.
Nope. I don’t believe I said that.I can’t find the quote now but I seem to remember you wanting them ‘to support you’.
I’d wonder why they’re going if they can’t be happy for me on my big day, but that’s me personally. I haven’t been in that position.How would you feel about somebody going but making their lack of support and celebration clear?
I did have a family member skip a 1st communion though.
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