Child not getting married in the church

[TC3033]

You call that out of context???

Uh, ya. To us it’s not whether or not “we” care if they reconcile or not. I’m sure that some of my family indeed did/do care if they will reconcile. Whether or not they do isn’t/wasn’t going to keep us from the wedding…when indeed there is no rule that they can’t/shouldn’t attend (per your link). When I then stated comes down to a matter of opinion, from your link, which you haven’t addressed.

This is going to be a big sticking point. When you’re insisting this is a “Church Law” issue on their marriage, but then when it comes to attendance there is no such law, it comes off hypocritical…

My family broke no law in the Church by attending their offspring wedding. I’m not sure why that upsets you so.

 

[Ammi]

I dont think you will find a public statement by a Catholic priest who says a Catholic can attend an invalid wedding without making clear your disagreement with the decision to marry outside the Church, that you do not participate in the ceremony, and you encourage reconciliation.

Those factors are very significant in the morality of attending an invalid wedding of a Catholic, by another Catholic.

I have provided a few examples of Canonists, apologetics, and priest’s comments.

Attending without charity in these forms is morally wrong.

 

[TC3033]

I dont think you will find a public statement by a Catholic priest who says a Catholic can attend an invalid wedding without making clear your disagreement with the decision to marry outside the Church, that you do not participate in the ceremony, and you encourage reconciliation.

Does that necessarily make it wrong…since indeed there is no law?

At least we’re in a place of agreement now.

It’s open to opinion and interpretation.

 

[Ammi]

There is no explicit law against attending. There are reasons for this, which the canon article addressed.

It becomes a matter of prudence. Attending without relating disagreement with the act, and also not participating, but attending while hoping the relationship reconciles with the Church is permissible and why there isnt a strict prohibition.

Furthermore, if either party had a previous marriage, it becomes even harder to justify.

That being said, it certainly is not wrong to refrain, and most likely the wiser choice, and probably the most common advice from pastors.

 

[TC3033]

There is no explicit law against attending. There are reasons for this, which the canon article addressed.

It becomes a matter of prudence. Attending without relating disagreement with the act, and also not participating, but attending while hoping the relationship reconciles with the Church is permissible and why there isnt a strict prohibition.

Furthermore, if either party had a previous marriage, it becomes even harder to justify.

OK…then we’re good to go. No need for us to carry on further.

It becomes a matter of prudence.

And like I said…use your own judgement (a synonym for prudence). For our family our judgment was to go to the weddings, for you it may not be. My point to the OP was be prepared for any poor outcomes from that decision.

it certainly is not wrong to refrain,

Didn’t say it was. I just said that we wouldn’t, we attended.

most likely the wiser choice

Opinion.

 

[Ammi]

You are the one approaching this very legalistically.

It’s not a matter of explicit law. It’s about charity and avoiding scandal.

Like I said before, there isnt a law against going into a brothel, but that doesnt mean we should. Why are we there? What is our intentions, and what do others think we are doing there?

So too with an invalid wedding. Why are we going? To celebrate the marriage? That would be immoral. To participate in the invalid ceremony? That would be immoral. Knowing the couple believes we are supporting the wedding? That would be immoral too.

 

[TC3033]

there isnt a law against going into a brothel,

If you’re going to continue to put a wedding on that of soliciting prostitutes, we’re going to be done here.

OP, I would recommend to your friend that they not introduce their new in-law as their child’s “lover”. It probably won’t go to far.

 

[Ammi]

You arent hearing the point.

Is there a law in the Church against going into a brothel?

I’m not saying the sin of marrying outside the Church is necessarily the same as prostitution.

The sin, however, is not isolated. There are other factors involved in “why” someone is marrying outside the Church.

You better believe I am concerned about any of those potential issues my son or daughter would have. And they will know that my refraining from a potential ceremony certainly doesnt imply all the things some people may feel.

It would be strictly refraining from a sinful ceremony. My love and forgiveness is already known to them. They already know me. No ruined relationship fear whatsoever.

 

[TC3033]

You arent hearing the point.

Yes, I am. And by some of the things you’ve said (or inferred what you’d say) to individuals in an invalid marriage gets it across loud and clear.

No ruined relationship fear whatsoever.

Like we’ve all said through almost 500 replies…Good For You, don’t go to the wedding.

Others of us have seen a relationship tear or break…so in a tale of caution…said be prepared for that possible outcome. For some reason, you haven’t been able to grasp that as a possibility in the OPs situation.

 

[Ammi]

Those relationships were not good to begin with. The ceremony just revealed the problem.

Work on relationships apart from a sinful ceremony.

 

[TC3033]

Those relationships were not good to begin with. The ceremony just revealed the problem.

Says who…?

Work on relationships apart from a sinful ceremony.

Oy Ve… … There may not be an opportunity.

I also wouldn’t speak of it this way when trying to work on that relationship…my $0.02

 

[Ammi]

You arent Catholic. So you can go without issue.

If you were Catholic, you would be morally compelled to admonish and express your intention to support reconciling with the Church, and not supporting or participating in the ceremony.

If you did that, you would be attending in good faith.

 

[TC3033]

You arent Catholic. So you can go without issue.

No bearing on the conversation.

If you were Catholic, you would be morally compelled to admonish and express your intention to support reconciling with the Church, and not supporting or participating in the ceremony.

I guess that isn’t everyone…

 

[Ammi]

No bearing on the conversation.

Its relevant to who this applies to. It is relative to Catholic morality. It has to do with an invitation to something Catholics know to be a sin. So your fixation on the formal legal silence from the Church does not imply attending is not wrong, in itself. Attending while ensuring certain things is what matters.

I guess that isn’t everyone…

Everyone is called to Jesus and His one Church. It isnt His will that we are divided, or that any of us should support beliefs and ceremonies that are not lawful in His Church.

 

[TC3033]

So your fixation on the formal legal silence from the Church does not imply attending is not wrong, in itself. Attending while ensuring certain things is what matters.

not lawful in His Church.

Does whether or not there’s a law matter…or no? You can’t have it both ways.

There’s no law against attending…we attended and had a great time. From my point of view, you’re standing on opinion against attendance… My $0.02.

My advice to the OP is the same. Non attendance is your choice, there is no law against it, so we attended with no issue. Non-attendance may create a tear / rip / roadblock in the relationship that may be tough to overcome (if not insurmountable), so be prepared for that if the decision to not attend is the direction your friend goes.

 

[Psalm30]

From my point of view, you’re standing on opinion against attendance…

Yes @Ammi this is a big part of the matter. You are putting your own stipulation on what the Church teaches and placing an undue burden on the faithful that the Church herself does not place on her members.

Kind of like the people who carry on about how NFP is just as bad as contraception and the only reason “just” enough to use it is being on your deathbed, otherwise you’re committing a grave sin. The Church doesn’t teach this, and the members of the Church who do preach it place an undue burden on the other members that can cause great anxiety and unnecessary trouble in their hearts. That’s not okay.

To a certain extent, you are doing something similar here. The Church does not have a rule against attending. She allows attendance on the condition that the Catholic make it known they don’t approve. Yet you carry on about not attending, accusing people of being anti-Catholic bullies, when they aren’t doing anything against the Church.

Child not getting married in the church Family Life

Sorry, but I find this very cruel and anti Catholic.

Phemie explicitly stated that she attended her children’s weddings outside the Church while letting them know she didn’t approve, and they knew her stance. She did everything she was supposed to. She then said her kids wouldn’t want her in their lives if she didn’t go to their wedding. That’s not a threat—she knows her kids and how they react to things. You don’t. You don’t get to tell her how her own kids would react when you don’t know them. Yet—in putting your own stipulation on Church laws—you accused her of being cruel and anti-Catholic when she did nothing wrong in the eyes of the Church. Not cool.

 

[Ammi]

Do you realize I was saying if they would have not wanted her in their lives if she didnt go, that is what I think would be cruel and anti Catholic?

 

[Psalm30]

Do you realize I was saying if they would have not wanted her in their lives if she didnt go, that is what I think would be cruel and anti Catholic?

Nice try, but I’m not convinced. Especially when throughout this thread, you repeatedly accused me and others of approving of invalid marriages and of “bullying” and “threatening” the OP’s friend when we pointed out that it is possible that her daughter will break off the relationship, and you continually push for not attending the wedding, even though—as has been said over and over—there is no rule against attending as long as you make it known you don’t approve. That’s you putting your own stipulation on Church law. NOT COOL

 

[Psalm30]

Look here:

Child not getting married in the church Family Life

Apparently it’s cool to boast about an invalid marriage. Any Catholic who does not wish to celebrate an invalid marriage is now being labeled a hater.

No one has labeled anyone as a “hater.” That’s you. All you. In your unwavering attempt to put your own stipulation on Church laws, you twist people’s words into things they did not say.

And here

Child not getting married in the church Family Life

So are you saying a Catholic can enter an invalid marriage (outside the Church) in good conscience? The agreement of any sincere Catholic, is to intend and strive to follow what the Church Teaches. Not attending an invalid wedding is not a judgment, but refraining from participating and supporting something opposed to the Catholic faith.

You jump to accuse the poster of approving of invalid marriages and being of the opinion that a Catholic can enter into one in good conscience—and that’s not what she said. At all. That is your projection. Yours. All. Yours.

And here:

Child not getting married in the church Family Life

I’m saying that it is better not to support an invalid marriage, and YES accept those consequences of upholding Christian marriage. It’s a shame invalidity doesnt matter to you. It should matter to everyone who partakes of the one Bread.

Invalidity doesn’t matter to her? Says who? Because she advocates for attending the wedding—when the Church doesn’t say she can’t—it automatically means “invalidity doesn’t matter to her?” No! You are throwing around evil accusations to promote your own stipulation on Church laws, putting an unnecessary burden on the faithful that the Church does not. ABSOLUTELY NOT COOL!

 

[Psalm30]

Do you realize I was saying if they would have not wanted her in their lives if she didnt go, that is what I think would be cruel and anti Catholic?

Don’t like it when someone turns your words into something you didn’t say? Think about that before spouting accusation to others.