Child not getting married in the church

[Ammi]

I did say usually …

I know why 2 in my family didn’t.

So what are these good reasons?

 

[TC3033]

Neither one of them are practicing Catholics…haven’t been for years.

One has, or is in the middle of, converting to her husbands Lutheran church and they were married in a Lutheran ceremony. I don’t know if she received a dispensation or not. Nobody asked, and personally, I don’t think it’s our place to do so.

In the 2nd case, neither of them have been practicing Catholics for over 10 years and I’m pretty sure at least one doesn’t identify as Catholic anymore. Hasn’t for as long as I’ve known them.

I already know your reply “those aren’t good reasons”… Your opinion. And even so, that wouldn’t have kept us from their wedding.

 

[Ammi]

So why arent they practicing Catholics???

Simply not practicing is an insufficient reason. In fact, it’s not a reason at all. It’s the result of deeper issues.

 

[TC3033]

They haven’t “been” Catholics for years. One is now or is becoming Lutheran.

Like I said, I knew your reply before you wrote it. Your opinion, it’s not enough to keep us from/out of their wedding(s).

 

[Ammi]

That is not an answer.

It’s like saying these Catholics are marrying in the Church because they arent going to Church at all, and expecting others to be like “Oh, that’s a good reason.”

… it’s not enough to keep us from/out of their wedding(s).

You have already disclosed that neither you, or any of your Catholic family cares if they leave the Church. This bears a shadow on each of your points which attempt to use their examples as good.

 

[TC3033]

That is not an answer.

Sure it is.

It’s like saying these Catholics are marrying in the Church because they arent going to Church at all, and expecting others to be like “Oh, that’s a good reason.”

No, it’s not. It’s saying is not reason enough for us to not be there for them on their wedding day.

You have already disclosed that neither you, or any of your Catholic family cares if they leave the Church.

No, I have not. Please to extrapolate words into my “mouth” that haven’t come out.

This bears a shadow on each of your points which attempt to use their examples as good.

I disagree (and obviously am not the only one). Them not getting married in the Catholic Church was not enough of a reason for us to not be there for them on their wedding day. Especially when the Catholic Church…Doesn’t have a rule against it! You seem to conveniently keep skipping over that…

 

[Psalm30]

So what I’m hearing is this:

A marriage is either 100% good or 100% evil.

If there is a minimum of one thing wrong with it, all the other good things about it are of no value.

And if any Catholic points out that there is both good and evil in some marriage, and the good in them can still be acknowledged, this person is trying to start the next Protestant Reformation.

When the Church herself does not have an explicit rule saying not to attend an invalid wedding, as long as you make it known you don’t approve.

 

[Ammi]

No, it’s not. It’s saying is not reason enough for us to not be there for them on their wedding day… No, I have not. Please to extrapolate words into my “mouth” that haven’t come out.

But you said you and your Catholic family doesnt care if they married outside the Church, or if they never reconcile for that! You do the simple math… this means your Catholic family doesn’t care if they leave the Church. Since this is what they have done and their ceremony reflects.

I disagree (and obviously am not the only one). Them not getting married in the Catholic Church was not enough of a reason for us to not be there for them on their wedding day. Especially when the Catholic Church…Doesn’t have a rule against it! You seem to conveniently keep skipping over that…

I’m not skipping anything. The issue becomes a matter of prudence, like many priests, canonists, and apologists have related. It’s not simply a matter of legality.

I find it interesting how when the Church doesnt make a “rule” for something, but allows Catholics to use their wisdom and judgment, that is viewed as approval for attending under all situations.

The canon made easy assessment relates it well. It recognizes that it can still be wrong even though a law does not explicitly prohibit it. I agree. We dont need a law for everything. We can use our own wisdom and faith.

 

[Ammi]

So what I’m hearing is this:

A marriage is either 100% good or 100% evil.

If there is a minimum of one thing wrong with it, all the other good things about it are of no value.

And if any Catholic points out that there is both good and evil in some marriage, and the good in them can still be acknowledged, this person is trying to start the next Protestant Reformation.

When the Church herself does not have an explicit rule saying not to attend an invalid wedding, as long as you make it known you don’t approve.

No. A relationship always has good and bad in it. No relationship is without some wrong and some right.

No matter how much good a relationship has in it, does not make it a marriage.

The fact that Jesus judges our souls righteously after we die has no bearing on whether or not it is right to support a wedding with a known impediment. Especially when the person is informed and aware, and has also left His Eucharist for who knows what reasons.

 

[Psalm30]

No matter how much good a relationship has in it, does not make it a marriage.

Interesting…

We dont need a law for everything. We can use our own wisdom and faith.

Also interesting

 

[Ammi]

If a known impediment exists, no amount of other good qualities will change the fact that it is invalid. Are you disagreeing with this???

 

[Psalm30]

If a known impediment exists, no amount of other good qualities will change the fact that it is invalid. Are you disagreeing with this???

It’s invalid. Being invalid doesn’t mean the good qualities don’t exist, or that one can’t acknowledge the good qualities without starting the next Protestant Reformation.

 

[Ammi]

Ammi:

If a known impediment exists, no amount of other good qualities will change the fact that it is invalid. Are you disagreeing with this???

It’s invalid. Being invalid doesn’t mean the good qualities don’t exist, or that one can’t acknowledge the good qualities without starting the next Protestant Reformation.

Stay on topic, this is about a wedding. No one even knows what their life together will look like, nor is it about judging their soul. It’s about the ceremony and what the ceremony means and represents.

I can recognize good qualities in all relationships. But the ceremony is either right or wrong. I can support them as individuals just as I support everyone and commend good behavior and admonish bad. Not because I am greater, but because I welcome that from my brothers and sisters towards me. We all should, if we are sincere Christian’s.

Actually it’s very similar to the Protestant Reformation.

The Catholic leaves the Church and His Eucharist and has a ceremony which draws on their Baptismal grace and general priesthood. By abandoning the Church, they are impeding the involvement of God in the marriage.

It’s like the reformers leaving the Church and claiming a valid Eucharist.

 

[Psalm30]

I can recognize good qualities in all relationships. I can support them as individuals just as I support everyone and commend good behavior and admonish bad. Not because I am greater, but because I welcome that from my brothers and sisters towards me. We all should, if we are sincere Christian’s.

This was my whole point with the hypothetical couple. Now you seem to understand it, but earlier you chewed me out.

It’s about the ceremony and what the ceremony means and represents.

So tell them that. Explain what the Church says. Say you don’t approve and wish they were getting married in the Church. They may or may not agree with you or accept what you’re saying. If they don’t accept it, let them be on their way. It isn’t impossible to do this while still attending the wedding. Especially if it’s between a parent and a child.

Actually it’s very similar to the Protestant Reformation.

The Catholic leaves the Church and His Eucharist and has a ceremony which draws on their Baptismal grace and general priesthood. By abandoning the Church, they are impeding the involvement of God in the marriage.

It’s like the reformers leaving the Church and claiming a valid Eucharist.

But it doesn’t have to be. Not if you make it known that you don’t approve, try to educate them, and tell them you hope they will reconcile with the Church.

 

[Ammi]

Finally a post I can agree to!

Now… you know that realistically Catholics arent doing this, right? Informing and communicating all this.

And if they do, would a sincere couple really want you to attend when it causes this kind of trouble in your heart?

You know TC333 has related that the Catholics in his family dont care about all that. They support and celebrate the ceremony. They see no need for reconciling over this.

 

[Psalm30]

Now… you know that realistically Catholics arent doing this, right? Informing and communicating all this.

Yes, but this was the advice for the OP’s friend—attend the wedding while communicating it. That’s what this thread was about, right? The OP’s friend and her daughter—not all the other Catholics who are attending invalid weddings.

And if they do, would a sincere couple really want you to attend when it causes this kind of trouble in your heart?

This is complicated…I don’t think I can get the point across in a way that won’t result in you twisting what I’ve said into something I didn’t say.

It depends on individual circumstances. I don’t know enough about the OP’s friend and her daughter to comment.

You know TC333 has related that the Catholics in his family dont care about all that. They support and celebrate the ceremony. They see no need for reconciling over this.

Is this accurate, @TC3033?

 

[TC3033]

But you said you and your Catholic family doesnt care if they married outside the Church, or if they never reconcile for that!

Please show me where I said that.

The issue becomes a matter of prudence, like many priests, canonists, and apologists have related. It’s not simply a matter of legality.

So, it’s a matter of their opinion?

It recognizes that it can still be wrong even though a law does not explicitly prohibit it.

That doesn’t mean it is.

Is this accurate

@Psalm30 I just asked for a quote on that. I have been misquoted, and had so many thing put in my “mouth” that I don’t even know anymore.

It comes down to: They’re adults and can make their own decisions. We were not going to strain or cut the family relationship/dynamic to skip our own family’s weddings. If they decide to reconcile (and who knows one of them may have received a dispensation. I didn’t ask and don’t think it’s my place to.) it’s on them. We were going to be there on their wedding day.

 

[Ammi]

There have been at least a couple statements from you that your Catholic family doesnt care if its outside the Church and that they have not reconciled or likely ever will.

I will find them when I have time to go through all this thread.

 

[TC3033]

There have been at least a couple statements from you that your Catholic family doesnt care if its outside the Church and that they have not reconciled or likely ever will.

OK, it sounds like you’re going to try to take it out of context…if you can find it.

It doesn’t MATTER to our family if the it’s outside the Church, if they reconcile, or ever will. We’re going to be at the wedding.

 

[Ammi]

Ammi:

There have been at least a couple statements from you that your Catholic family doesnt care if its outside the Church and that they have not reconciled or likely ever will.

OK, it sounds like you’re going to try to take it out of context…if you can find it.

It doesn’t MATTER to our family if the it’s outside the Church, if they reconcile, or ever will. We’re going to be at the wedding.

You call that out of context???

That is directly contradicting what myself and Psalm30 have found mutual agreement over.