Child not getting married in the church

[Psalm30]

I do get your point. Responding to it more specifically with a more extreme analogy, one can’t fully express ones disapproval of an abortion, while driving someone to the clinic.

Not sure this analogy adequately adds up anymore so than you are saying my analogy of agnostics going to Mass with Catholic friends adds up.

An abortion will not happen without being driven to the clinic. A person who drives someone to an abortion clinic has actually helped the abortion to occur.

Is Mom not attending the invalid wedding going to stop it from occurring? Not likely. Is Mom refusing to pay for the wedding going to stop it from occurring? Maybe, but then you’re back to daughter getting married in the Church just to please Mom and we’ve already discussed why that is problematic.

Furthermore, the Church makes it clear that anyone who participates in an abortion in anyway has committed grave sin and will be excommunicated. The Church has not explicitly stated that anyone who attends an invalid wedding will be excommunicated. (Not sure if abortion merits automatic excommunication anymore, but it did at one time.)

 

[TheLittleLady]

They may approach their pastor (the pastor of the parish which’s boundaries include their domicile) and talk about the possibility of applying to the Bishop for the proper permissions/dispensations. If neither is practicing, nor intends to practice, I’d doubt that they would want to do that.

 

[Ammi]

And how would the Church view someone getting married in the Church—for no other reason than pleasing Mom and Dad—when they don’t take seriously or intend to keep the promises they are required to make to be validly married in the Church?

Why would threats of other impediments be a reason to support this impediment. Let them go their way. It’s their choice.

Yes. But refusing to attend the wedding isn’t necessarily an effective way to do that, in every single case. And it can set up the bride and groom to marry in the Church by going through the motions, without actually intending to live their vows. I’m not saying that is definitely what will happen in this situation—or in any other situation— just that it’s possible.

So they are threatening sacraligion if Catholics refuse to attend their wedding, which opposes Catholic beliefs?

It’s a case-by-case basis. Will not attending the wedding push people further away from doing the right thing or closer to it? We don’t know enough about the OP’s friend’s situation to say one way or the other. All I’m saying is that not attending the wedding may or may not be the right way to convince a person not to enter into an invalid marriage.

You think not attending an obvious invalid wedding is aggression towards them. When the aggression is the Catholic rejecting the Church. Let them go marry elsewhere. But dont expect others to rebel with them

 

[ThomasMT]

I disagree. You may have a point in your last paragraph, though. - Peace

 

[Psalm30]

You think not attending an obvious invalid wedding is aggression towards them. When the aggression is the Catholic rejecting the Church. Let them go marry elsewhere. But dont expect others to rebel with them

Friend, please. Where do I mention aggression? Throughout this thread, you project notions that have not been expressed.

So they are threatening sacraligion if Catholics refuse to attend their wedding, which opposes Catholic beliefs?

They are not “threatening” anything.

Hypothetical scenario:

Daughter: Mom I’m getting married on the beach!

Mom: I will not attend or pay for your invalid wedding.

Daughter can’t bear the thought of Mom not coming to the wedding and/or can’t afford to pay for the wedding herself, so she complied and gets married in the Church when she doesn’t want to and isn’t prepared to keep the required promises. Where is the threat on the daughter’s part?

But dont expect others to rebel with them

You are of the belief that attending the wedding is giving an automatic stamp of approval to the invalid marriage. I do not agree, and there is also no Church teaching to support your position. While attending is not encouraged, it’s also not forbidden. The OP’s friend needs counsel from a trusted priest as far as what to do in her particular situation. Maybe @edward_george1 can weigh in?

 

[Ammi]

Friend, please. Where do I mention aggression? Throughout this thread, you project notions that have not been expressed.

Its implied throught the thread.

Post #9

If this lady wants enmity with her future grandchildren, she’ll make a good start by not attending the wedding.

Post #14

It sounds like this woman is willing to give up on her relationship with her daughter and with future grandchildren… refusing her in the name of rigid laws that the daughter has rejected?

Post # 30

No one can force someone to believe in the Catholic Church. If someone chooses to reject the Church, are their parents required to disown them?

Post 33

Not attending the wedding may very well be perceived by the daughter as disownment… All she is going to see is her mother refusing to be by her side on the most important day of her life.

They are not “threatening” anything.

You made fear threats that the daughter would be resentful. That is a form of threat and bullying.

Hypothetical. Daughter: “Mom I’m getting married on the beach!” Mom: “I will not attend or pay for your invalid wedding.” Daughter can’t bear the thought of Mom not coming to the wedding and/or can’t afford to pay for the wedding herself, so she complied and gets married in the Church when she doesn’t want to and isn’t prepared to keep the required promises. Where is the threat on the daughter’s part?

First of all, you portray the mother quite callous. Second, it’s not about the mother’s rules. It’s the Church’s rule that it’s an invalid marriage. Which means fornication. Maybe mom hurts to see her daughter celebrating fornication? The threat, is all the implications that daughter will be disowning mom because she doesnt support the wedding, which the Catholic Church does not support.

You are of the belief that attending the wedding is giving an automatic stamp of approval to the invalid marriage.

I guess I dont understand how it isnt supporting. And I certainly dont understand the notion that not attending is being cruel or unloving. The Prodigal Son’s father did not go attend his wayward son’s forbidden events and practices. He celebrated his return.

 

[masuwerte1]

He saw him a long way off and ran out to him, though.

 

[Ammi]

Because he was returning. Meaning NOT continuing or celebrating forbidden things.

 

[Psalm30]

First of all, posts 9 and 14 are not mine.

Post #30

Yes, not being with one’s child on their wedding day can cause deeply hurt feelings and possibly lead to severing the relationship. This isn’t a threat, it’s a fact of life.

You made fear threats that the daughter would be resentful. That is a form of threat and bullying.

It is a possibility that the daughter will be resentful. It’s not a threat or bullying, it’s a stating what is true.

The threat, is all the implications that daughter will be disowning mom because she doesnt support the wedding, which the Catholic Church does not support.

You don’t seem to understand that a mother refusing to attend her daughter’s wedding is a very, very big deal. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread is making this up to “bully” or “threaten” the OP’s friend. It is a real possibility that the daughter’s relationship with her mother will be deeply wounded if the mother doesn’t attend the wedding.

I guess I dont understand how it isnt supporting. And I certainly dont understand the notion that not attending is being cruel or unloving. The Prodigal Son’s father did not go attend his wayward son’s forbidden events and practices. He celebrated his return.

It’s a little bit perturbing that you don’t see a how the general idea of a mother not attending the wedding of her daughter is cruel and unloving.

Can the mother not say, “I believe you will not be truly married unless you marry in the Church. I will be with you on your wedding day, but I really wish you would get married in the Church, and be right in the eyes of God.” Then continue to gently nudge her in an ongoing message, even after the wedding, about why it’s important to marry in the Church.

 

[Ammi]

First of all, posts 9 and 14 are not mine.

But it’s the same arguement.

Post #30 Yes, not being with one’s child on their wedding day can cause deeply hurt feelings and possibly lead to severing the relationship. This isn’t a threat, it’s a fact of life.

Except it’s not a valid wedding day.

You don’t seem to understand that a mother refusing to attend her daughter’s wedding is a very, very big deal. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread is making this up to “bully” or “threaten” the OP’s friend. It is a real possibility that the daughter’s relationship with her mother will be deeply wounded if the mother doesn’t attend the wedding.

See? You put the responsibility of the relationship on attending an invalid marriage. Not cool! The responsibility is to love the daughter, but separate from the denial of faith.

It’s a little bit perturbing that you don’t see a mother not attending the wedding of her daughter as cruel and unloving.

It’s an invalid wedding.

Can the mother not say, “I believe you will not be truly married unless you marry in the Church. I will be with you on your wedding day, but I really wish you would get married in the Church, and be right in the eyes of God.” Then continue to gently nudge her in an ongoing message, even after the wedding, about why it’s important to marry in the Church.

She can. Is that what the daughter wants to hear? Does a daughter want her mother to attend a wedding she believes is invalid and only means fornication?

 

[Ammi]

Ya know, the funny thing is that I dont even care for the impediment to begin with! But it’s a law, which means the wedding is invalid. And Catholic men and women throw away their marriage vows because they weren’t said in the Church, and the Church writes it off as a simple matter of lack of form.

So I say, stand up Catholics. If this is being used to throw your relationship down the drain, and find a new lover who isnt even your children’s mother or father, then now is the time to make a stand.

 

[Psalm30]

Ammi, nothing in what I have posted has contained threats, bullying, or malice. It is you who have interpreted it this way. I’m bowing out now. Peace to all.

 

[CoffeeCatholic]

It’s a shame invalidity doesnt matter to you. It should matter to everyone who partakes of the one Bread.

As argumentative as you are, I had to ask myself if you were a troll and not a real poster.

I’ve not said what my personal opinion of things are. Calm down. Again, the mother needs to realize there is a possibility of some long term repercussions by not attending her daughter’s wedding. Period.

 

[Ammi]

Ammi:

It’s a shame invalidity doesnt matter to you. It should matter to everyone who partakes of the one Bread.

As argumentative as you are, I had to ask myself if you were a troll and not a real poster.

I’ve not said what my personal opinion of things are. Calm down. Again, the mother needs to realize there is a possibility of some long term repercussions by not attending her daughter’s wedding. Period.

First of all. Please call it what it is… an invalid wedding. Secondly, it is not the fault of the mother for not attending. You are implying that it is unloving to refrain from an invalid wedding. That is the downfall of the arguement. It is actually in a Catholics right and recommendation to do so. It does NOT imply a lack of love or concern for the relationship at all! It even conveys a hope for reconciliation and appreciation for a parent’s love. Someday, the daughter might realize this.

 

[Ammi]

We must take into concern the level of instruction given the person.

Absolutely agree. Yet that doesnt mean, such a parent is disqualified from refraining from an invalid wedding, and they just need to be ashamed for their lack of instruction. It is still an opportunity to have a heart to heart talk. It’s not too late.

And here is something to consider. Every parent who attends out of fear and intimidation makes it harder for other parents to make a stand against invalidity. Snowball.

 

[CilladeRoma]

My father-in-law took this hardline stance with my husband & I. It didn’t change our minds then, and it ruined my husband’s relationship with his father and the Church.
I have since reconciled with the Church and had our marriage sanated. My husband is still, even 30 years later, non-practicing, very angry with the Church, and resentful that his father behaved the way he did.
I hope you never have to live with any of that grief. It is very unpleasant. I hope that being “right” is worth it.

 

[Ammi]

Please describe “hard line stance”. Because not attending an invalid wedding is not a crime in the Church, but can be considered upholding the Catholic faith.

 

[CilladeRoma]

He refused to come to our wedding because it was not in the Church.
Neither of us at the time practiced the faith, or even really believed.
It would have been hypocritical for us to marry in the Church. But, based on what some say here, we should have because that is the “rule”.
Well, that rule and the strict adherence to it by my FIL deeply hurt my husband, and drove him even further from the faith.
But, that’s ok, because his Dad was “right”.

 

[Ammi]

He refused to come to our wedding because it was not in the Church.

That is not a crime. But rather a recommendation.

Neither of us at the time practiced the faith, or even really believed.

So is this justified?

It would have been hypocritical for us to marry in the Church. But, based on what some say here, we should have because that is the “rule”.

You are creating something that doesn’t exist. No one in this thread has said you should marry in the Church.

Well, that rule and the strict adherence to it by my FIL deeply hurt my husband, and drove him even further from the faith.

It does no good to blame others for lack of faith.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It was the the idea “following arbitrary rules” instead of “loving one another as I have loved you”, and the hypocrisy of seeing people go through the motions of being good Catholics but be total jerks in real life that drove my husband from the faith. But again, you, like so many others, seem to think that being “right” is what is important.