Christianity, is it sexist?

[Baraq]

Sexist?

…and Thankfully so, as Christ is the Bridegroom and we are the Bride. Let us be thankful that our head is Christ, and in him the Bride( the Church) has salvation.

We probably all are aware that women are just as(if not better) qualified to be Church leaders than men. Yet, in God’s wisdom he forshadows our salvation through the different roles The apostle tells us that Eve was in the transgression, and Adam went in with open eyes. The Apostle tells us this is the reason for the different roles. Let us give Praise to God that our head is Christ, and that the Bridegroom is the head not the Bride.

 

[FCEGM]

Great…but how many wives ( not to mention concubines) did David have and yet he still wasn’t satisfied? Christians try to justify polygamy in the Bible but what about men who had concubines? Concubines are used merely for sex, sometimes reproduction, yet God doesn’t condemn that. God condemns every other sin in the Bible yet he allows men to get away with this.

The main reason David got into trouble with Bathsheba was because he was supposed to have been at war with his soldiers.

You insist on reading Scripture, most particularly the Old Testament, with the lens of a 21st century secular mentality, maintaining that if God really is God (and thus not “sexist”) then He absolutely must adhere to modern sensibilities in dealing with His People. (And while your religious attitude is different from that of a Fundamentalist, your approach to Scripture is that of the most Fundamental literalist.)

But what you are leaving out of the whole equation is the little matter of Original Sin and the affect it had (and has) on man’s relationship with God – and man’s relationship to man, and how God must then take small steps, so to speak, in bringing humanity back to Him through His tutelage of a People slow to respond due to the very fact of that break in their relationship with Him, namely Original Sin.

After the Original Sin God in His wisdom decides not to save the whole human race in a global manner, but to save a remnant which is a small, obscure and unimportant people in the eyes of the world in order to bring forth the Christ Who will be the Savior of the whole. His first concern is to form them to obedience to His will, particularly in regard to their propensity to go after false gods. Thus He permits certain customs to them that are prevalent in the surrounding cultures that will eventually be overthrown as they come to live a more moral life in fidelity to His Covenant with them (His prophets especially are sent by Him to teach obedience to that Covenant).

It is not until the Incarnation of God the Son Who is born into and as one with that particular People that mankind as a whole receives His Self-Revelation and the Redemption which He won for us on the Cross from which flows the grace necessary to rise above and to transform the divisions in mankind. These divisions include those between man and woman which, as we see in Genesis 3:16, arise out of their Fall from friendship with God.

 

[FCEGM]

Sexist?

…and Thankfully so, as Christ is the Bridegroom and we are the Bride. Let us be thankful that our head is Christ, and in him the Bride( the Church) has salvation.

We probably all are aware that women are just as(if not better) qualified to be Church leaders than men. Yet, in God’s wisdom he forshadows our salvation through the different roles The apostle tells us that Eve was in the transgression, and Adam went in with open eyes. The Apostle tells us this is the reason for the different roles. Let us give Praise to God that our head is Christ, and that the Bridegroom is the head not the Bride.

 

[Nancie_Lew]

You are trying read the Bible through a modernist lens. Not only was a woman expected to have a husband, but a man was expected to have a wife. It cuts both ways. How is that sexist? And you answered your own query with the story of the widowed mother whom God blessed with food. What’s the preoccuptation with the OT anyway? Have you not read the NT? Is it not clear that Jesus chose women for some of the most important roles in His ministry? He comissioned the apostles to care for widows in a way that had never been done before. He elevated the status of women beyond anything that was customary at the time. If you want to understand how a woman can be a Christian, I suggest you start by reading the NT and stop perseverating on the OT.

Did women have the right to divorce their husbands… no. In fact during Biblical times women were refusing to marry because there were no benefits in marriage. They could be divorced by their husbands by word of mouth. How is that for security? If you burnt his toast you might find yourself out on the doorstep. God allowed men to divorce their wives because of the hardness of their hearts. That was nice of him.

When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well he noted that she had had many husbands. Why? She had no power to divorce her husbands. Maybe she didn’t want to be divorced.

 

[dessert]

I have often thought it odd that Bathsheba, living across the street from David’s palace, where she knew he walked in view of her own house, should be taking a bath without being aware that he was there: "Oh *my!!! *DAVID is up there LOOKING at me! What a surprise! I didn’t know anybody could see!!!

Not to “blame the victim” – just noting the obvious. This is David: handsome, successful, charming David with a keen eye for women. C’mon. Talk about sending signals! IT doesn’t justify David of course.

By the way: God forgives David because of his penitence, expressed in Psalm 51, but he punishes both David and Bathsheba: the child of their liaison dies.

Sexist? By OT standards, it was the norm. Would this be the standard by which Christianity operates. Not hardly by a longshot.

This is an interesting story and sad you may find situations in churches but I find less or none in the Catholic, I have been involved with many, different that is. since I have returned to the Catholic it has helped my marriage considerably because of the prayer and facing the truths inour lives and yeas my hubby is more hhonest and our arguments are now discussions mixed with patience and peace. I am treated with respect not just by the men but also by the women, surprise? Sexist only by the women who are still trying to prove they have (one too) maucho and the men that feel they have to keep
more than one woman on a string. This I saw only in the non-Catholic Church. Dessert

 

[gam197]

originally posted by** mercygate**
By the way: God forgives David because of his penitence, expressed in Psalm 51, but he punishes both David and Bathsheba: the child of their liaison dies.

David has to deal with his children. Absalom kills his half-brother , Amnon partly because his half-brother rapes Absalom’s sister, Thamar. David’s favorite child, Absalom tries to take the throne and is killed.

originally posted by **Nancy Lew **
Christians try to justify polygamy in the Bible but what about men who had concubines?

Even Chinese Emperors took more than one wife(consortium); it probably had to do with having an heir to the throne. In the old testament, we see how good kings and leaders are in short supply.

Yes, the old testament does mention concubines but it seems to me that after the fall, God choose men who had only one wife such as Noah, Isaac, etc.

Women…

It was Eve that took the first bite. The devil is tempting her saying “God is a liar” and then continues with “Don’t you want to be like God” Well, who would want to be like a liar? (Her desires are getting in the way here.)

Again it was Sara who came up with the idea of having a concubine for Abraham. Not that Abraham was much better because he tries to save his skin when he tells the king that Sara is his sister and not his wife. The king finds out and is quite upset.

 

[deb1]

I made a mistake it was Rachael…not Rebecca. Rebecca was married to Isaac.

By the way, one of my favorite names is Rebecca.

I like Abigail because it means 'Father’s Joy." It is also the name of a very strong woman in the Old Testament.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I don’t think Martin Luther believed women had souls either.

I think before your get upset about something perhaps doing a little research to find out what the facts are would be good. There is a lot of misinformation about everything out there. The same facts diseminated over and over even if they are wrong.

Aren’t you curious about this stuff? I guess maybe I’m just wired to want as much information as possible and from divergent sources. May be you are curious but you are coming across as arguementative.

 

[deb1]

Did women have the right to divorce their husbands… no. In fact during Biblical times women were refusing to marry because there were no benefits in marriage. They could be divorced by their husbands by word of mouth. How is that for security? If you burnt his toast you might find yourself out on the doorstep. God allowed men to divorce their wives because of the hardness of their hearts. That was nice of him.

When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well he noted that she had had many husbands. Why? She had no power to divorce her husbands. Maybe she didn’t want to be divorced.

Jesus said that God allowed divorce because of the hardness of men’s hearts. I suppose that God knew that men would just abandon their wives if he didn’t allow this.

I am confused as to what you mean by the woman at the well. I thought Jesus meant that she had slept with many men?

Divorce is a sin and God never wanted it. Somewhere in the latter part of the Old Testament(Oh how I wish that I would write down interesting verses when I found them) it states that God Hates Divorce.

 

[Nancie_Lew]

But what you are leaving out of the whole equation is the little matter of Original Sin and the affect it had (and has) on man’s relationship with God – and man’s relationship to man, and how God must then take small steps, so to speak, in bringing humanity back to Him through His tutelage of a People slow to respond due to the very fact of that break in their relationship with Him, namely Original Sin.

First of all, I don’t need your god because I am not a bad person. I don’t sin. I try to treat all people the way I would like to be treated. The problem with people is the way they are raised. If someone is raised in a loving family they will live a good life. If they are raised in a bad family they will be bad. The whole thing has to do with socialization not religion.

 

[deb1]

First of all, I don’t need your god because I am not a bad person. I don’t sin. I try to treat all people the way I would like to be treated. The problem with people is the way they are raised. If someone is raised in a loving family they will live a good life. If they are raised in a bad family they will be bad. The whole thing has to do with socialization not religion.

This is not true. My mother was very unstable, and narcisstic. She was married several times and did not hesitate to call me horrible names. She was also addicted to pain medicine. When I was a teenager she made an appointment for me to go to the Dr and fake a migraine so I could get medication for her.

Yet, as an adult, I am not addicted to medication(I don’t even like to take tylenol). I do not abuse my kids and I have been married only once.

Your family life doesn’t always explain who you are. At some-barring mental illness- point we all have a choice about our actions.

Every one falls short of the human that they could be. IF you have ever lied, cheated, or gossiped then you are sinning. I do believe that a person can be good despite not believing in Christ but like it or not, we all sin.

IF you are on a Catholic board we will explain things through our mental lenses. That means that you will hear about sin.

 

[dessert]

I made a mistake it was Rachael…not Rebecca. Rebecca was married to Isaac.

By the way, one of my favorite names is Rebecca.

I like that name too I had a great -great G&G named Issac and Rebecca on my fathers side, I wish I had used it for my daughter but her name is from Alexandria it is Sandra. You know the bible has many names for women but I believe in some cultures like Job’s daughters the daughters were only named after the father as daughters and women’s names came mostly from mens but Mary is original don’t you think?
my daughters middle name is my husbands lee as I wasn’t sure we would have a boy but then we had 2.My hubby was in Viet Nam and thank God he did make it back but it was stressfull but he came back without too much physical damage anyways. So the name stuck and I didn’t give his name to the boys,(I could have and I was lableled as a feminist by my mom-inlaw ) because she earned it and my hubby said it didn’ matter as we usually discuss things and my boys are ok with it all but my mom-law Oh well that is another story too long for this thread. Dessert :yup:

 

[Nancie_Lew]

Women…

It was Eve that took the first bite. The devil is tempting her saying “God is a liar” and then continues with “Don’t you want to be like God” Well, who would want to be like a liar? (Her desires are getting in the way here.)

What would have happened if only Adam had eaten the apple? Eve would still have inherited a sinful nature from Adam, been thrown out of Eden and had to suffer regardless of whether she ate the fruit. How is that for a just god?

 

[Neithan]

Great…but how many wives ( not to mention concubines) did David have and yet he still wasn’t satisfied? Christians try to justify polygamy in the Bible but what about men who had concubines? Concubines are used merely for sex, sometimes reproduction, yet God doesn’t condemn that. God condemns every other sin in the Bible yet he allows men to get away with this.

Concubines were actually wives of an inferior social rank, not just used for sex.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

the meaning conveyed by the term has not always been the same; in the Old Testament, for instance, a legitimate spouse, if of an inferior social grade, or a bondwoman, is often given the appellation of concubine, not to call in question the validity of her marriage, but to indicate that she did not share in her husband’s rank or property nor in the administration of the household to the same extent as the principal wife. From Genesis 21:9-14, we see that her dismissal and that of her children was permissible. But in those Scriptural times, when polygamy was permitted or at least tolerated, such a concubine was not the only marriage partner. Thus Lia and Rachel, the first two spouses of Jacob, had the full social standing of wives, while Bala and Zelpha, both bondwomen, were his concubines, married for the purpose of bearing children for Rachel and Lia (Genesis 30:3, 9, 13). Here, therefore, the main difference between the state of legitimate marriage properly so called and that of legitimate concubinage is to be found in the disparity of rank which characterized the latter.

As for God permitting polygamy and concubinage, as well as divorce, amongst the Jews, Christ said it was for “the hardness of your hearts” that this was permitted, but that “in the beginning it was not so” (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-9).

The Catholic Church interprets this to mean that the Fall damaged the relationship between men and women which God originally intended, as we see in Genesis **3:16: **“To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee.”
Because the ancient Hebrews did not have the fullness of Revelation, they were permitted certain imperfect customs until the coming of Christ, Who restored the friendship between God and Man, and between man and woman as originally intended.
As an aside–the Genesis passage is a clear indication that God spoke (and speaks) to women.

The Old Testament is ‘sexist’ because it was written when sexism was the norm, as a consequence of the Fall. It even explains why it is sexist. The New Testament however, clearly treats men and women as equal in dignity before the eyes of God. Passages of St. Paul which might be misconstrued as ‘sexist’ in the sense of giving women an inferior spiritual place compared to men are simply misinterpreted.

In Short: God loves women just as much as men, but unfortunately it is their lot to suffer in certain ways under the aegis of domineering men while here on this fallen earth, but they are in no way inferior and in heaven all is as it should be, with men and women totally equal in glory yet distinct and harmonious in their expressions of God’s Image.
Yet the Kingdom of God is already here, instituted by Christ in His Church and the fact that she has brought women greater emancipation in the Christian age than ever enjoyed in ancient times is one proof of her divine mandate.

 

[dessert]

I would say: Yeah! Ain’t it GREAT! Then add that you probably are thinking of “sexist” in different terms from theirs.

Betttttt you are thinking offfff Star trek sexistssssss let’s start oh let’s notttt as I would get pulmulated with tomatoes or star beammed to planet pluto but than I would have fun with Mickey oh but I am married so Minnie and I could go to a reteat or something! :bowdown2: to captain whoo?
Dessert

 

[deb1]

What would have happened if only Adam had eaten the apple? Eve would still have inherited a sinful nature from Adam, been thrown out of Eden and had to suffer regardless of whether she ate the fruit. How is that for a just god?

We don’t know what God would have done and it is difficult to say something is unfair when it didn’t happen. You got to admit, debating whether something is unfair just based on speculation as to what would might have happened is probably impossible

 

[dessert]

What would have happened if only Adam had eaten the apple? Eve would still have inherited a sinful nature from Adam, been thrown out of Eden and had to suffer regardless of whether she ate the fruit. How is that for a just god?

God is just and mercifull.
FOR IT IS REVEALED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD FROM FAITH TO FAITH ; AS IT IS WRITTEN,“THE ONE WHO IS RIGHTTEOUS BY FAITH WILL LIVE.”

Forgiveness is what Adam and Eve needed and which Jesus Christ earned for you and me and all. Dessert

 

[dessert]

What would have happened if only Adam had eaten the apple? Eve would still have inherited a sinful nature from Adam, been thrown out of Eden and had to suffer regardless of whether she ate the fruit. How is that for a just god?

God is just and mercifull.
FOR IT IS REVEALED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD FROM FAITH TO FAITH ; AS IT IS WRITTEN,“THE ONE WHO IS RIGHTTEOUS BY FAITH WILL LIVE.”

Forgiveness is what Adam and Eve needed and which Jesus Christ earned for you and me and all. Dessert

 

[lak611]

Divorce is a sin and God never wanted it. Somewhere in the latter part of the Old Testament(Oh how I wish that I would write down interesting verses when I found them) it states that God Hates Divorce.

It is from the Book of Malachi. ‘Mal 2:16 NAS77) “For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.’

 

[deb1]

It is from the Book of Malachi. ‘Mal 2:16 NAS77) “For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.’

Thank you again. You keep supplying me with bible refrences when I forget the verse. Thank you! We will have to keep you around on these forums.