Cindy sheehan's Allies

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rlg94086:
Or the US and Saddam against Iran…oops, sorry didn’t mean to sidetrack 😉
Or FDR and Stalin? Good old buddies. FDR called Stalin affectionately “Uncle Joe”. Oh how nice and cute. :mad: Stalin was arguably right behind Hitler as worst leader ever and he was an American ally.
 
This might sound dumb but I’m not here to often…what the heck is “code pink”? Like an anti war group or what?
 
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rlg94086:
Eh? It wasn’t a concept…it was a comparison to a historical fact.
Er…what a brillig comparison to historical fact. Even better.
 
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rlg94086:
Eh? It wasn’t a concept…it was a comparison to a historical fact.
But there is a difference. The United States in both the Second World War and the Iran-Iraq War did not take on the ideologies of Stalin or Saddam. For example, FDR did not institute communist policies in the United States. Compare that with Cindy Sheehan advocating the very far left ideas and policies of her “allies”. Read what she has been saying and you’ll find out they are more than common allies against a common enemy - Bush. In most instances, Cindy is virtually the same as her allies.
 
Ani Ibi:
Er…what a brillig comparison to historical fact. Even better.
Okay, now I have to ask what “brillig” is. I thought it was a typo on the first post…
 
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Hildebrand:
But there is a difference. The United States in both the Second World War and the Iran-Iraq War did not take on the ideologies of Stalin or Saddam. For example, FDR did not institute communist policies in the United States. Compare that with Cindy Sheehan advocating the very far left ideas and policies of her “allies”. Read what she has been saying and you’ll find out they are more than common allies against a common enemy - Bush. In most instances, Cindy is virtually the same as her allies.
I agree with you there. Cindy Sheehan is a far-left idealogue. Family members I’ve heard on local radio say she always was. She keeps this company because she agrees with them.
 
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Brad:
Why can’t you do your own demonstration? Why do you have to piggyback along with those that support violence under the guise of promoting peace? Does that make any sense, let alone correspond to the teachings of the Church and Christ?

You can comfortably cooperate with those that radically oppose the Church and the Gospel and radically oppose life and the weakest of society? . . .]

Don’t bring the Blessed Mother into support of a cause that supports killing babies and supports terrorists. Please.
This objection was answered by Blessed Pope John XXIII in the following key sections of his encyclical *Pacem in terris * (“Peace on Earth”):

"***Relations Between Catholics and Non-Catholics in Social and Economic Affairs

"157. The principles We have set out in this document take their rise from the very nature of things. They derive, for the most part, from the consideration of man’s natural rights. Thus the putting of these principles into effect frequently involves extensive co-operation between Catholics and those Christians who are separated from this Apostolic See. It even involves the cooperation of Catholics with people who may not be Christians but who nevertheless are reasonable people, and people of natural moral integrity. ‘In such circumstances they must, of course, bear themselves as Catholics, and do nothing to compromise religion and morality. Yet at the same time they should show themselves animated by a spirit of understanding and unselfishness, ready to co-operate loyally in achieving objects which are good in themselves, or conducive to good.’

"Error and the Errant

"158. It is always perfectly justifiable to distinguish between error as such and the person who falls into error–even in the case of those who err regarding the truth or are led astray as a result of their inadequate knowledge, in matters either of religion or of the highest ethical standards. Someone who has fallen into error does not cease to be a human being. He or she never forfeits personal dignity; and that is something that must always be taken into account. Besides, there exists in man’s very nature an undying capacity to break through the barriers of error and seek the road to truth. God, in His great providence, is ever present with His aid. Today, maybe, someone lacks faith and turns aside into error; tomorrow, perhaps, illumined by God’s light, he or she may indeed embrace the truth.

"Catholics who, in order to achieve some external good, collaborate with unbelievers or with those who through error lack the fullness of faith in Christ, may possibly provide the occasion or even the incentive for their conversion to the truth.

"Philosophies and Historical Movements

"l59. Again it is perfectly legitimate to make a clear distinction between a false philosophy of the nature, origin and purpose of human beings and the world, and economic, social, cultural, and political undertakings, even when such undertakings draw their origin and inspiration from that philosophy. True, the philosophic formula does not change once it has been set down in precise terms, but the undertakings clearly cannot avoid being influenced to a certain extent by the changing conditions in which they have to operate. Besides, who can deny the possible existence of good and commendable elements in these undertakings, elements which do indeed conform to the dictates of right reason, and are an expression of man’s lawful aspirations?

"160. It may sometimes happen, therefore, that meetings arranged for some practical end–though hitherto they were thought to be altogether useless–may in fact be fruitful at the present time, or at least offer prospects of success. But whether or not the moment for such cooperation has arrived, and the manner and degree of such co-operation in the attainment of economic, social, cultural and political advantages–these are matters for prudence to decide; prudence, the queen of all the virtues which rule the lives of human beings both as individuals and in society.

“As far as Catholics are concerned, the decision rests primarily with those who take a leading part in the life of the community, and in these specific fields. They must, however, act in accordance with the principles of the natural law, and observe the Church’s social teaching and the directives of ecclesiastical authority. For it must not be forgotten that the Church has the right and duty not only to safeguard her teaching on faith and morals, but also to exercise her authority over her sons and daughters by intervening in their external affairs whenever a judgment has to be made concerning the practical application of this teaching.” ***

As for the Blessed Mother, it’s impossible to exclude her from the peace movement, because she is the Queen of Peace, and because peace is one of the themes of the message of Fatima.

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
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Richardols:
In the 1930s, about the only people demonstrating against racism in America were the Communists. Numerous Catholics, knowing what the overall Communist agenda was, nevertheless participated with them in demonstrations against racism.
If it hinted at support of Communist policies, it was wrong to do.

Better to start your own protest group clarely distinguishable.
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Richardols:
In
One can cooperate with others where one can validly cooperate with them, and not cooperate where their aims are contrary to ours. For example, cooperating with Fundamentalists on pro-life issues even though they are otherwise anti-Catholic.
There is no cooperating with individuals that are opposed to Jesus Christ. Start your own group so as no obfuscation may occur.
 
Steve O'Brien:
As for the Blessed Mother, it’s impossible to exclude her from the peace movement, because she is the Queen of Peace, and because peace is one of the themes of the message of Fatima.

Keep and spread the Faith.
And a fine encyclical it was. I’m just going to look at one part of what you quoted:

It even involves the cooperation of Catholics with people who may not be Christians but who nevertheless are reasonable people, and people of natural moral integrity. 'In such circumstances they must, of course, bear themselves as Catholics, and do nothing to compromise religion and morality

Can you honestly say the vast majority of the anti-war movement is funded and supported by reasonable people with moral integrity? I say their support for homosexual acts and killing babies excludes them from this category of people.

Secondly, in participation with these groups (if you must) are you making clear your disdain for abortion, euthenasis, and same-sex marriage as a Catholic? Are you clearly defining these lines? If so, then why not lead the movement rather than piggy-back with people that disagree at very basic and fundamental levels of life with you?

I am not suggesting you eliminate Mary from the peace movement. I am saying you should not intertwine her blessed image with those that support the destruction of life. You must make a clear distinction and not jeopardize the message of the Gospel to those that see you working side-by-side with those that hate life.
 
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gilliam:
Cindy said this country is not worth defending. No wonder Code Pink is supporting her.
Marxists never lie. The US is evil. Code Pink believes in the Castro’s Cuban Paradise. That is why thousands of the oppressed are swimming from Miami to freedom in Cuba.

Code Pink helped end the fighting by specifying that the cash and supplies would go directly to the center of Iraqi resistance, Falujah.
 
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rlg94086:
Okay, now I have to ask what “brillig” is. I thought it was a typo on the first post…
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
 
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Lizzie:
directly to the center of Iraqi resistance, Falujah.
I would expect there to be normal run-of-the-mill Iraqis in Fallujah. It doesn’t seem unlikely that they may have needed food, shelter or medical supplies.

I’d never heard of this group before this week. For all I know, they may well be an evil front for a trade in arms to kill US GIs, under the guise of supplying blankets and medicine. They don’t seem it though, from my reasonably extensive trawling of the internet. I’d like to see some references or proof that they are doing bad things, given people seem so convinced of it.

Mike
 
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Lizzie:
directly to the center of Iraqi resistance, Falujah
]I would expect there to be normal run-of-the-mill Iraqis in Fallujah. It doesn’t seem unlikely that they may have needed food, shelter or medical supplies.

I’d never heard of this group before this week. For all I know, they may well be an evil front for a trade in arms to kill US GIs, under the guise of supplying blankets and medicine. They don’t seem it though, from my reasonably extensive trawling of the internet. I’d like to see some references or proof that they are doing bad things (as opposed to voicing an opinion that many here find unpleasant), given people seem so convinced of it.

Mike
 
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Brad:
And a fine encyclical it was. I’m just going to look at one part of what you quoted:

It even involves the cooperation of Catholics with people who may not be Christians but who nevertheless are reasonable people, and people of natural moral integrity. 'In such circumstances they must, of course, bear themselves as Catholics, and do nothing to compromise religion and morality

Can you honestly say the vast majority of the anti-war movement is funded and supported by reasonable people with moral integrity? I say their support for homosexual acts and killing babies excludes them from this category of people.

Secondly, in participation with these groups (if you must) are you making clear your disdain for abortion, euthanasia, and same-sex marriage as a Catholic? Are you clearly defining these lines? If so, then why not lead the movement rather than piggy-back with people that disagree at very basic and fundamental levels of life with you?

I am not suggesting you eliminate Mary from the peace movement. I am saying you should not intertwine her blessed image with those that support the destruction of life. You must make a clear distinction and not jeopardize the message of the Gospel to those that see you working side-by-side with those that hate life.
Only God can read people’s hearts and souls and judge *subjective * culpability. Still, speaking from the standpoint of the *objective * moral order, we can say this: if an anti-war activist supports legalized abortion and same-sex unions, then he or she, to that extent, is not a person “of natural moral integrity.” But, from the same perspective, we must also say that the same person *is * of good character to the extent to which he or she promotes the teachings of the Catholic Church on war and peace.

And let’s remember the crucial distinction that Pope John XXIII draws in the encyclical *Pacem in terris * between error and the person who is in error.

I resolutely agree with Pope John XXIII on the need for Catholics to behave as consistent Catholics in their sociopolitical activities, which means bearing witness to the truth of Catholic teaching on all moral issues without exception. In our society, this principle is especially relevant to the obligation to oppose abortion, euthanasia, suicide, the murder of human embryos, and same-gender unions.

If enough solid Catholics flood into the active ranks of the anti-war movement, then Catholics will lead the movement. I pray for that outcome.

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
Steve O'Brien:
Only God can read people’s hearts and souls and judge *subjective *culpability.
Please keep this in mind when you’re composing your posts.
 
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davy39:
All I can say is, remember Viet-Nam. The war we lost, not from the lack of courage and committment of our troops, or the lack of purpose. We lost because of public opinion, anti-war protesters, and the lack of support of the troops in this country.
Not “anti-war” protestors. They were largely anti-draft protestors. Once the draft was stopped, almost all of the protests stopped as well.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Steve O'Brien:
If enough solid Catholics flood into the active ranks of the anti-war movement, then Catholics will lead the movement. I pray for that outcome.

Keep and spread the Faith.
Solid Catholic’s have been sheding their blood in the muck and the mire for centuries. Solid Catholic’s have been good citizens of heaven and on earth, laying down their lives for cowards who will not serve or sacrifice save their efforts to defame and divide. Solid Catholics are once again being spit upon and mocked just as Chist himself was.

Thank you so much for your support. They appreciate your service to their suffering and sacrifice. 🙂 I know they are comforted to die for others so you and yours might live to pass on false peace and malice another day, to another generation of anti-war protestors.
 
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Marie:
Solid Catholic’s have been sheding their blood in the muck and the mire for centuries. Solid Catholic’s have been good citizens of heaven and on earth, laying down their lives for cowards who will not serve or sacrifice save their efforts to defame and divide. Solid Catholics are once again being spit upon and mocked just as Chist himself was.
And solid Catholics can oppose war too. Any and all war in fact.

usccb.org/sdwp/peace/objector.htm
We should look upon conscientious objection not as a scandal, but rather as a healthy sign. War will still not be replaced by more humane institutions for regulating conflict until citizens insist on principles of non-violence. John F. Kennedy once said, “War will exist until the distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige as the warrior does today.”
Mike
 
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