Cleric - its ok to beat woman and force them to have sex

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…I wasn’t even married to him!

both of u committed a major sin . I hope , u 2 will offer your sicere repentance before death approaches.

PS. Don’t say , all Christian men are very gentle & don’t abuse women in the relatioship.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…When the honeymoon is over, marriage is hard work.

divorce is not encouraged but allowed in Islam when necessary.

When husband is abusive, a woman may end her married life & she is allowed to remarry. Islam does not say that it’s adultery to marry a divorced lady.

 

[dolphinlove]

both of u committed a major sin . I hope , u 2 will offer your sicere repentance before death approaches.

PS. Don’t say , all Christian men are very gentle & don’t abuse women in the relatioship.

Are you for real? qui est ce im sure would have gone to confession and confessed her sins. But what disturbs me more is how she explained she is raped, and you totally missed that accusing her of being sinful, when it was clear she was made to have sex against her own will.
Where did she say Christian men arent guilty of doing such a thing?
Im sick of you accusing us of bashing islam all the time, when you have no hesitation of bashing Christianity at the slightest whim. You need to step back and reflect on your action.

 

[Prime]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Jesus (p) is God to Christians & they think OT is from God but not from Jesus (p) . Huh…another puzzle.

Ha ha ha!
That does not change the facts of the matters I said.
Is that all you can refute?

 

[Reuben_J]

I just got out of a 3 year relationship with a Muslim man and believe me when he wanted sex there was no choice on my part. He was physically stronger than me and acted like some kind of animal. One time I slapped him and he said (and this shook me to the core) “If you hit me it is not rape”. I wasn’t even married to him! I feel sorry for the woman he has subsequently married (though he will probably cheat on her constantly).

I can only sympathize with you though that may never be enough.

As a man, I can’t say the word I have for such animalistic act but let it be known here that it is Islam not Christianity. Now it does not mean Christian husbands are always better husbands but at least there is no verse that say should beat our wives.

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m glad you are out of that kind of a relationship. His behavior obviously was not appropriate, on many levels. He might even be mentally disturbed, so distorted his perception of man-woman relations. I’m sure it’s much healthier for you to be out of that kind of a relationship.

He could be mentally disturbed and that would absolved him of any responsibility. But I am not surprised if he was just an ordinary Muslim man with clear conscience that a wife is his possession to be used and possessed.

As in the case of Mohammad and Zainab one does not have to love the wife to marry her, but married her he did nevertheless. If you love your wife as Christianity teaches, a husband will consider her body as his own. That comes for the mouth of St. Paul and how Muslims loathe him. Muslim women should love Paul and ask him to teach your husbands. He has something that might work for your marriage!

Sorry Sister Amy, I do not mean this for you it’s just happen to be together in this subject.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Are you for real? qui est ce im sure would have gone to confession and confessed her sins. But what disturbs me more is how she explained she is raped, and you totally missed that accusing her of being sinful, when it was clear she was made to have sex against her own will.
Where did she say Christian men arent guilty of doing such a thing?
Im sick of you accusing us of bashing islam all the time, when you have no hesitation of bashing Christianity at the slightest whim. You need to step back and reflect on your action.

My ex is a white Christian male. Never met I Muslim man or women I didn’t like. The ones I have met are very faithful. Good examples of how to live your faith.

And yes, I go to Confession regularly.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Are you for real? qui est ce im sure would have gone to confession and confessed her sins. But what disturbs me more is how she explained she is raped, and you totally missed that accusing her of being sinful, when it was clear she was made to have sex against her own will.
Where did she say Christian men arent guilty of doing such a thing?
Im sick of you accusing us of bashing islam all the time, when you have no hesitation of bashing Christianity at the slightest whim. You need to step back and reflect on your action.

You realize don’t you that she wasn’t talking to qui est ce, she was talking to Charlotte!!! Where she admitted to intercourse outside of marriage–which is a sin in both religions.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Exactly…both should be considerate of each other, not the husband forcing himself on the wife if she doesn’t want to have sex with him when he wants to!

Nobody ever said the husband should force himself. Why do you keep saying that?

Whatever. And the Muslim world has sanctioned rape and infidelity with its stupid laws it claims to have from God. This is just as much an abomination of God’s ideal relation as divorce!

To quote you, “Whatever.”

God forgive me, I do not mean to be crude, but I think it is easy to intellectually defend this stance, and would probably be less easy if you were the one with the husband who forces himself on you sexually AND take other women “in marriage”, in apparent accordance with Islamic law.

Or out of marriage. I’m not saying men are allowed to force themselves on their wives, why do you keep accusing me of saying that?

And again, you are assuming that giving your husband sex whenever he wants will keep him with you. That is incredibly naive. Intimacy problems may manifest themselves in a lack of physical love within a marriage, but they are always rooted in something emotional. If that weren’t the case, there would be no marriage counseling industry to begin with, because two people who are physically AND emotionally intimate don’t just stop being that way without some serious problem entering the hearts of one or the other.

Who says I am assuming that? I’m not. I know a man whose wife was very accommodating sexually and still he wanted another wife. Just the way he was. I definitely did not make the assumption you accused me of.

 

[Sister_Amy]

She was not AT ALL excusing the man for his bad behavior, merely suggesting that the poster repent for the sin she also committed.

 

[Sister_Amy]

He could be mentally disturbed and that would absolved him of any responsibility. But I am not surprised if he was just an ordinary Muslim man with clear conscience that a wife is his possession to be used and possessed.

He might not have been mentally disturbed. Neither you nor I know, do we? There are men of every religion who beat women, and that woman was not even his wife!

As in the case of Mohammad and Zainab one does not have to love the wife to marry her, but married her he did nevertheless. If you love your wife as Christianity teaches, a husband will consider her body as his own. That comes for the mouth of St. Paul and how Muslims loathe him. Muslim women should love Paul and ask him to teach your husbands. He has something that might work for your marriage!

Plenty of people get married in Islam without loving the person first, and it’s nothing weird. Because strong emotions outside of marriage can lead a person to sin–just look at our society today, premarital sex and pregnancy. Muhammad was the best example of how to treat his wives.

And FYI–he didn’t beat them or rape them.

 

[dolphinlove]

You realize don’t you that she wasn’t talking to qui est ce, she was talking to Charlotte!!! Where she admitted to intercourse outside of marriage–which is a sin in both religions.

doh i mean charlotte…

 

[dzheremi]

Nobody ever said the husband should force himself. Why do you keep saying that?

So what is the difference between not being allowed to deny your husband “without a good reason” (which you have not defined, nor specified who gets to decide what a “good reason” is) and your husband getting sex whenever he wants on demand? Maybe “force” is a bit of a strong word to use, but the dimension of this sort of relationship that I am trying to emphasize is the wife’s inability to say “no”. In non-Muslim marriages in the West, as flawed and cheaply as they are handled in many cases, the wife still has the option of withholding intimacy from her husband if there is something seriously wrong with their relationship. If you are indulging your husband even when you “don’t feel like it” (which you admitted you would do), then I suppose the issue of force need not come into play, as you already willfully forefeit your right to intimacy on equal terms in the relationship. And then what about those times when you don’t want to and you have what you feel is a good reason? If he is accustomed to getting what he wants whenever he wants regardless of your feelings, how do you think he will react to your protestations?

Or out of marriage. I’m not saying men are allowed to force themselves on their wives, why do you keep accusing me of saying that?

Because not being allowed to say no effectively gives the husband the context to demand sex whenever he wants? Again, as I said above, “force” is perhaps a strong word to use, and I regret using it now. The point is the denial of the wife’s right to say no without a “good reason” (whatever that is; does she get to decide what that is?)

Who says I am assuming that? I’m not. I know a man whose wife was very accommodating sexually and still he wanted another wife. Just the way he was. I definitely did not make the assumption you accused me of.

Sorry, but that is what this part of your post (#66) reads like to me:

For my part, I would much rather indulge my husband when I “don’t feel like it” than force him into the arms of another woman.

So…if you do not indulge your husband even when you don’t feel like being intimate with him, it will effectively force him into the arms of another woman?

Interesting use of “force” in that quote, by the way. Maybe you can understand my use of that word, then. You would not be physically forcing him out of the house and into the arms of another, so much as the context of the situation could cause him to seek physical affection elsewhere. Similarly, in “forcing” his wife to have sex by denying her right to say no, the man might not need to lift a finger. Manipulation can go a long way. I have heard some Christians invoke certain Bible passages to convince their wives that it is their religious duty to never have an opinion or dream of their own, and I don’t agree at all with that, either.

Really, if you want to live by these Islamic precepts in your possible/eventual marriage, that’s fine. The only reason I’m even continuing in this thread is that it seemed to me that you were advancing the idea that the Islamic idea of marriage is somehow what would be best for non-Muslims as well, as in this part of post #66:

If American society doesn’t like that idea, too bad. It has a future full of many more divorces, of more cheating husbands and wives, more tales of infidelity…

This is what I was saying “whatever” to (I normally don’t like replying to posts in that manner). Islamic marriages will prevent cheating, divorces, etc. but only because,Islam avoids these things by codifying infidelity via polygamy (and according to this cleric you are in agreement with, forced sex). These things are perhaps in your future, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let you trash the Christian idea of marriage because many Americans don’t take marriage seriously. In a marriage of two non-idiots (regardless of their religion), the consideration of the other does not preclude the free exercise of personal choice in keeping with ones own emotional health or conscience, but includes it.

In the picture of intimacy within Islamic marriage that you are painting, that does not seem to be a bedrock principle.

 

[Reuben_J]

Plenty of people get married in Islam without loving the person first, and it’s nothing weird. Because strong emotions outside of marriage can lead a person to sin–just look at our society today, premarital sex and pregnancy. Muhammad was the best example of how to treat his wives.

And FYI–he didn’t beat them or rape them.

I have no problem with arranged marriage though that may not be the practice today with young people. But I do not have objection to arranged marriage if the parties concerned agree to it. I object though if it is done against their will.

As for Mohammad being role model for husbands, I beg to differ and many wives, and yes, that include Muslim wives, do not agree with this statement. I am not surprised that some Muslim women go along with this but personally I think that’s because out of religious obedience rather than to think that Mohammad was a good husband.

The simple fact is that Mohammad was a bad husband! He was good while being married to Khadijah but I suspect his intention then. After Khadijah died he was not what he used to be!

I don’t know about you ladies, but if I were you I certainly would not want to share my husband with a group of younger and more attractive women than I am. That’s what Mohammad exemplified and more, as if four wives is not enough for one man.

Just last month a Muslim wife came to me for counseling because her husband was ignoring her and having an affair with another woman whom he wanted to marry. She knew I am Christian but out of desperation (she’s a friend of my wife) she just wanted someone to talk to. It was without the knowledge of her husband. Now they are living in the same house but without talking to each other because this lady (wife) cannot accept that her husband should take anther wife. BTW, she is a medical doctor and the husband a pilot in a private airline. They have three beautiful children. Well, I should say this is Mohammad’s legacy, can’t blame the husband. But it has destroyed their happiness.

 

[R_not]

What the muslim women are missing in all of this is that if they get a husband, with or without their consent, there is nothing in islam to take action against these men.

In way too many muslim lands, and even under our noses in our own countries, sharia laws consider the woman as inferior to the man. What does a child, or woman, have to say about the man she her father sells her to, gives her to, or choses for her to marry if they turn out to be abusers? We have already have heard a number of cases where children were abused and they had to behave as adults and seek divorces.

And the muslim women on these threads just gloss over that sort of child abuse. Adult abuse is bad enough, but I have read no concern about the children abused in these situations. even from one who is a revert to islam and has not a clue as to what that would be like.

Sharia law regards women as inferior to men, and non-Muslims as inferior to Muslims, and it demands the execution of homosexuals. Sharia courts in Britain have already tried cases in domestic violence, and have issued no punishments beyond requiring the abuser get mentoring from Muslim elders and to attend anger management classes. In my opinion, this is an entirely unacceptable judgment for those who inflict violence on women. According to the Daily Mail, again:

In one recent inheritance dispute in Nuneaton, a Muslim man’s estate was spit was between three daughters and two sons with each son receiving twice as much as each daughter – in keeping with sharia law.

From Magna Carta to Sharia Law – Britain’s Decline

When I read that these women are saying of course abuse is a bad thing! And telling us exactly what we want to hear - well, reality is different than what they are trying to throw down our throats.

In our Western countries women have safe houses to go to if they are able to flee their abusers and European safe houses are full of muslim women (source: While Europe Slept, Eurasia, and Menace in Europe). They have no such thing in countries under muslim control/sharia laws.

And yes, mohammed did indeed abuse his wives. He took slaves and after killing their husbands, sons, fathers, and brothers - and enslaving the children that were allowed to live, some of them he just raped, and others he married and then raped them. (I do indeed consider it rape when a woman is married in these conditions being subjected to someone else’s ‘religion’ and calling it by any other name is still enslavement and rape). In fact, one of these women he took like this ended out killing mohammed by poison.

hypocracies in islam (see article on my pc for more hypocracies)

Muslim spokespersons claim moral purity in their fight against ‘decadent’ Westerners. Indeed, if a Muslim is told an infidel slept with a nine years old girl, they would condemn him for being a pedophile. But mention the Prophet Mohammed slept with a girl of the same age, and watch him overact with all kinds of rationalizations such as ‘girls in those days matured fast’ or ‘it was normal and acceptable in that culture’, etc. Apparently it was also normal in those days to rape a widow the same night you slaughtered her beloved husband in an unprovoked raid. To normal thinking feeling human beings, the phrase ‘most merciful’ would not seem to apply to either of these divinely sanctioned acts by Muhammad, yet somehow that contradiction is lost to Muslims.

 

[R_not]

Sometimes pictures speak louder than words.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/beating5.jpg

Why muslim women wear the veil:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/acid-women.jpg

here is a before and after set:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Canada has to tell muslims not to kill women

There are so many articles and pictures of women who have had acid thrown at them, burned, beaten, and I won’t post the ones that show them being stoned.

 

[ferdie]

I pray for the conversin of radical muslims. We are living in the 21st century, and yet there are still people stranded by religion in the dark ages. Its a pity.

 

[Reuben_J]

…

Muhammad was the best example of how to treat his wives.

And FYI–he didn’t beat them or rape them.

BTW, aren’t you being less than honest here? Even Aisha, his favorite wife testified that she got beat by him (Mohammad). Unless you want to tell me that this hadeeth is not authentic too.

 

[Reuben_J]

We can’t say for sure about the other wives because not all things were being disclosed. But the verse allowing husband to beat his wife is his very own, and if he beat Aisha the favorite young thing how can we possibly exclude that he did not beat the older ones if they didn’t toe his line? And as Planten said, he liked to set the example himself.

 

[chrisse]

Muhammad was the best example of how to treat his wives.

And FYI–he didn’t beat them or rape them.

May allah ensure your husband is everything Mohammed was, as your just deserts.