Commandments

[realpatience]

If it dosn’t matter, then why did you state, incorrectly, that it was counted from midnight? The truth is important simply because it is the truth, inaccurate statments lead to incorrect results.

When I said “Sunday” I mean the Sunday that we have now, measured from midnight to midnight. I would not presume that the Romans already named the days of the week as Sunday, Monday, etc. at the time. Also, but most importantly, the issue was about a commandment to keep a certain day holy. On the one hand is a commandment from the OT which commands to observe the seventh day, a time period from sundown to sundown. On the other, is a commandment from the Catholic Church to observe Sunday, a time period counted from midnight to midnight. Unless you are saying that Sunday in the commandment of your church refers to Sunday being counted from sundown to sundown, then you cannot use Acts 20 to support your church’s Sunday commandment.

Blessings.

 

[BTTG]

When I said “Sunday” I mean the Sunday that we have now, measured from midnight to midnight. I would not presume that the Romans already named the days of the week as Sunday, Monday, etc. at the time. Also, but most importantly, the issue was about a commandment to keep a certain day holy. On the one hand is a commandment from the OT which commands to observe the seventh day, a time period from sundown to sundown. On the other, is a commandment from the Catholic Church to observe Sunday, a time period counted from midnight to midnight. Unless you are saying that Sunday in the commandment of your church refers to Sunday being counted from sundown to sundown, then you cannot use Acts 20 to support your church’s Sunday commandment.

Blessings.

Never thought of your point before in reference to Acts 20.

I agree with you.

written with love

 

[mission10]

I’m not sure what teachings Craig (BTTG)follows but there are groups that follow Herbert W Armstrong teachings. He created Radio Church of God then it turned into Worldwide Church and that group had a major split and out of that came many splinter groups of today that have “Church of God” in their church name such as United Church of God and Living Church of God. There founder (hwa) taught that the anti-christ was going to come out of the Catholic church and he set many end time dates that never transpired. Documented in the 1930’s on up to 1980’s in his co-worker letters or plain truth magazines.

These churches are very anti-Catholic and also follow the Sabbeth as well as the Jewish Holy days.

I want to point out that it is shows to us in the book of Acts 20:6 that Paul did not go to the Feast of Unleavend Bread. This is a clear example that he no longer felt bound by the requirements of the old covenant. This is also shown in 1 Corinthians 16:8.

The feast of Unleavend Bread is a religous festival that began with passover and was celebrated in Jerusalem every spring. All adult men of Israel were required to make this pilgrimage to the city (Deut 16:16).

Also, Act 20:7 is the first day of the week following the Sabbeth (Genisis 2:3). This is the earliest evidence that believers assembled on Sundays for catechetical instruction and sacramental worship. and in Rev 1:10 it was called the Lord’s Day to commemorate the day Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:1) and (CCC 1343).

The sequence of apostolic preaching (Acts 20:7) followed by the eucharistic celebration
(Acts 20:11) shows the essential structure of the christian liturgy.

These “Church of God” groups also believe that the the Catholics removed the second commandment and deleted the fourth commandment. Many will not even look at Catholic teachings that say otherwise and continue to be ignorant and will believe what their church provided literature says over that of what the Catholic Church does teach and believes.

I see there are two topics created by Craig. I haven’t read this one in it’s entirety but thought I’d post my comment here as well. Below is the other topic he created on the same subject. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7717880#post7717880

 

[BTTG]

I’m not sure what teachings Craig (BTTG)follows but there are groups that follow Herbert W Armstrong teachings. He created Radio Church of God then it turned into Worldwide Church and that group had a major split and out of that came many splinter groups of today that have “Church of God” in their church name such as United Church of God and Living Church of God. There founder (hwa) taught that the anti-christ was going to come out of the Catholic church and he set many end time dates that never transpired. Documented in the 1930’s on up to 1980’s in his co-worker letters or plain truth magazines.

These churches are very anti-Catholic and also follow the Sabbeth as well as the Jewish Holy days.

I want to point out that it is shows to us in the book of Acts 20:6 that Paul did not go to the Feast of Unleavend Bread. This is a clear example that he no longer felt bound by the requirements of the old covenant. This is also shown in 1 Corinthians 16:8.

The feast of Unleavend Bread is a religous festival that began with passover and was celebrated in Jerusalem every spring. All adult men of Israel were required to make this pilgrimage to the city (Deut 16:16).

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I do not believe we have to observe jewish Holy days.

 

[StevieD]

The OP, BTTG, is a Seventh Day Adventist, though he is not happy to admit this openly. He is on a mission to convert us poor Catholics. His is a very strange ‘outfit’. I recommend that you look at:

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

I wonder if there is any SDA forum that would allow us such latitude. I doubt it.

 

[BTTG]

The OP, BTTG, is a Seventh Day Adventist, though he is not happy to admit this openly. He is on a mission to convert us poor Catholics. His is a very strange ‘outfit’. I recommend that you look at:

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

I wonder if there is any SDA forum that would allow us such latitude. I doubt it.

Hi Steve

I could never covert anyone on their beliefs, that is done by the Holy Spirit. I inform others of of what the Holy Spirit has brought to my understanding of the Bible. My mission is to spread the truth of God’s word to believer’s and non- believers. Why would you be “poor Catholics” if in your heart you accept the Catholic doctrines and you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour…you have the “riches” of His blessings.

written with love

 

[onlyvoice]

I want to point out that it is shows to us in the book of Acts 20:6 that Paul did not go to the Feast of Unleavend Bread. This is a clear example that he no longer felt bound by the requirements of the old covenant. This is also shown in 1 Corinthians 16:8.

The feast of Unleavend Bread is a religous festival that began with passover and was celebrated in Jerusalem every spring. All adult men of Israel were required to make this pilgrimage to the city (Deut 16:16).

Acts 20:6 - And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread…

This verse tells us that Paul and the early Christians observed the feast of unleavened bread but that on this particular year Paul did not celebrate it in Jerusalem.

Deuteronomy 16:16 - Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place where he shall choose; in the festival of unleavened bread…

This verse does not say the place to celebrate the festival is Jerusalem.

While the children of Israel were still in Egypt and before God even revealed to Moses and the Israelites that He would make a covenant with them, God tells the Israelites: “And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread…” (Exodus 12:17). What the Old Covenant did not establish cannot cease with its passing.

1 Corinthians 16:8 - But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.

This shows that Paul observed Pentecost but that on this particular year he celebrated it at Ephesus. Again, the law does not say these festivals had to be celebrated in Jerusalem.

 

[StevieD]

Hi Steve

I could never covert anyone on their beliefs, that is done by the Holy Spirit. I inform others of of what the Holy Spirit has brought to my understanding of the Bible. **My mission is to spread the truth of God’s word to believer’s and non- believers. ** Why would you be “poor Catholics” if in your heart you accept the Catholic doctrines and you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour…you have the “riches” of His blessings.

written with love

So you want to bring “my understanding” to us - well yes that’s trying to convert us. And you do so surreptitiously in not openly stating your affiliation to your very strange and very Anti-Catholic organisation.

 

[BTTG]

So you want to bring “my understanding” to us - well yes that’s trying to convert us. And you do so surreptitiously in not openly stating your affiliation to your very strange and very Anti-Catholic organisation.

Hi Steve

There was a question asked on this thread and I simply replied to the question and other questions that have been asked of me. I believe this site is open to all denominations. What other responses would I give to questions, but to those that I believe.
Regarding my affiliation to any organization, this question has never been asked. I am delighted to share any information regarding my beliefs.
As for a “very Anti-Catholic organization”, I encourage you to research what the leaders ( Thomas Cranmer-Archbishop of Canterbury, Roger Williams-Baptist, John Wesley - Methodist, John Haus-scholar, Martin Luther-Lutheran, John Calvin-Reformer, John Knox - Presbyterian, John Huss, John Wycliff) had to say about the “anti-Christ” and the “little horn”. I can send references privately should you request and if the forum allows.
This will be my last conversation about what the SDA believes about the Catholic Church. This thread is not about the comments you are making. With respect to the OP we should stay on the thread topic and with respect for Jesus, we are brothers and sisters in His name-love one another as He has/does loved us.

written with love

 

[adrift]

With due respect, you are adding words to the scripture of Acts 20:7. There is no evidence that catechetical instructions, or sacramental worship was observed.

Correct me but I believe you are reading " to break bread". However, the breaking of bread was a jewish daily custom ( Acts 2:46).

Paul discoursed with them. What do you think Paul was saying to them? Of course he was instructing them.

From NIV

46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

With due respect, I think you have misunderstood. The “every day” does not refer to the breaking of bread but to their gathering in the temple courts each day. To break bread has more than one meaning. It has the meaning of eating a meal but it is not the meaning here. When we look at other scripture we can see what is meant.

1 Corinthians Chapter 10
14: Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols. 15: I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17: Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.
Chapter 11
26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27: Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28: Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29: For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 30: That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died

These Scriptures show the Sacramental worship.

Secondly, taking the whole context of this verse, Paul brought the disciples together for he was departing the next day. At this time Paul was getting old, and this was probably going to be the last time he saw his brothers ( actually it was the last time he saw them).

I don’t understand what your point is but you really consider Paul as getting old? As I understand it, he was 62 when he was martyred. Paul was about 48 on his third mission that is the one we are discussing. I don’t consider that old.:nope:

 

[adrift]

Third , would this be a common catechetical instruction and sacramental worship, in which they would gather until midnight

Common? For Paul, yes.

Last, the account says this happened on “the first day of the week”, not Sunday. Isn’t this “first day of the week” reckoned from Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset? That would place their meeting to be on Saturday night and Paul’s preaching happening the whole night Saturday until midnight of that same day. Paul did not preach on Sunday here but instead stopped preaching when Sunday arrived.

Then we see that in the morning (Sunday morning) they all left for Assos with Paul going on foot while his companions sailing/rowing a boat. Rather than show us the apostles are now worshiping on Sunday, I think Acts 20 instead shows that Sunday was a normal working day for these people.

I believe you have miscalculated. We agree that the first day of the week would be Saturday night to Sunday night. Paul says he is leaving tomorrow which would be Sunday night until Monday Night. It is unlikely that Paul would leave at night. The logical conclusion is that he left Monday morning. The morning could not be Sunday as he said he was leaving tomorrow. Sunday morning would not be tomorrow yet. Paul talks to them until break of day and then leaves. Since it already states that he was leaving the next day and it is daybreak it must be Monday morning. Jewish worship has a Saturday night meeting and a Saturday afternoon meeting. It is more likely that the meeting began Sunday and ran until midnight.

With respect to Rev 1:10 where in the Bible does it state that Sunday is the “Lord’s day”. I believe man has added that because Jesus rose on the first day of the week, this must be the “Lord’s day”. But, what does the bible say about the “Lord’s day”. (Exo 20:10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Isa 58:13) If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Last, Rev. and book of John were written about the same time by John. John elsewhere in his writings designates " Sunday" as the “first day of the week”… (Joh 20:1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.(Joh 20:19) Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you

Note in Acts quoted above it refers to Jesus as the Lord.
Jesus is Lord. John 1:23 John 9:38

John, in the Book of Revelation, begins his account of his visions by writing (1:10):

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day…

Comment

Here John speaks of the Lord’s Day. What does he mean by this? Some say that the term denotes no particular day, that every day is the Lord’s day. But in that event, John’s statement means only that he was in the Spirit, with no indication of when. Surely he mentions the Lord’s Day with the intent that we shall understand which day he means, and surely he does so because the day is significant, because it is a particularly appropriate day for him to be in the Spirit, a day especially set aside for prayer and praise and rejoicing in the Spirit. Some say that he refers to the Sabbath. But in that event, why does he not simply call it the Sabbath? This would be clear, and it would be standard Jewish custom. It has never been the Jewish custom, in John’s day or before or since, to call the Sabbath the Lord’s day. However, as we shall see, Christians have consistently used the term to denote the first day of the week. Indeed, I venture to say that, whenever the term is used, and it is clear which day is meant, it is clear that the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, is meant. Now someone may object that I am here appealing, not to the Holy Scriptures, but to the practice of the post New Testament Church, and that this is not a legitimate authority. To this I reply, that when we wish to know the meaning of any Greek or Hebrew word found in Holy Scripture, we do not hesitate to admit as evidence the use of that word in other authors of that time or shortly before or after. Consider (to take the first example that comes to hand) the words byssos and byssinos, which occur a total of six times in the New Testament, and are translated “(fine) linen”. As far as I can see, there is no way to determine, simply by examining the words in their Scriptural context, that they refer to linen rather than, say, to silk. Yet no translator hesitates, because the meaning of the words is well known to us from numerous references in ancient, or for that matter not so ancient, Greek writings. I fail to see why we should not apply the same principle to determine the meaning of the expression, “The Lord’s Day,” determining its meaning as used by John by noting how other writers of Greek in that age and that corner of the world, and moreover of that faith, used it.

 

[adrift]

Acts 20:6 - And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread…

It doesn’t say that Paul or the early Christians observed this feast. It merely mentions the feast perhaps to give the time of year.

While the children of Israel were still in Egypt and before God even revealed to Moses and the Israelites that He would make a covenant with them, God tells the Israelites: “And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread…” (Exodus 12:17). What the Old Covenant did not establish cannot cease with its passing.

Your meaning is unclear could you restate?

1 Corinthians 16:8 - But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.

This shows that Paul observed Pentecost but that on this particular year he celebrated it at Ephesus. Again, the law does not say these festivals had to be celebrated in Jerusalem.

Please clarify which Pentecost he is observing the Jewish or Christian. But like the first mention it might just be to give the timing of when things happen.

 

[meltzerboy]

I agree with your point on the Jews. We read in scripture that the Jews were under the works of the law, they thought that salvation came by the works of the law, they thought that they themselves, through their self-fulling works, could be saved by keeping the law. We today will never be saved by keeping the 10 commandments, because of our sinful nature we will die. By God’s grace, obedience to the law is the fruit of salvation.

The Christian belief today is that all 10 commandments, including the day of worship on the Sabbath day of Saturday, is to be in our hearts and in our minds. However, God always intended that the 10 commandments is to be in our hearts, not by obeying the 10 commandments because we have to, but because we are saved and want to obey God. After God provided Moses with the 10 commandments, He says in Deut. 6:5,6… the commandments shall be in your heart. Also in (Psa 40:8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Please see my earlier reply on what day is the Lord’s Day.

Re: Mat 12 - You are right, in that the Jews, they were fulfilling the meaning of the Sabbath outwardly in the flesh, they did not understand God’s true meaning of the Sabbath, or of any of the commandments. In Jesus day the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfishness, rather then the character of God. Jesus knew that it was acceptable to pick food on the Sabbath if someone is urgency of food ( John and the disciples had been fasting when they approached Jesus). In the parable of Jesus healing on the Sabbath… Jesus states that it is acceptable to do good on the Sabbath. Jesus uses David as an example, that in His teachings He showed reverence for the institution that He created.

(Joh 9:16) Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

The Jews did not know how to observe the Sabbath day, Jesus knew how to keep the Sabbath day.

“Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls”

If I could paraphrase the above verse. many who believe to profess to be Jesus’ followers have troubled hearts… they do not make a complete surrender to Jesus, for a complete surrender might involve something they do not want to get involved with. it is the love of ones self that brings unrest. When we are born again spiritually, from above, we will be in the same mind as Jesus at peace with Him.

Jesus says (Mat 11:30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (1Jn 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

We all understand that we want to obey the 10 commandments within our hearts through faith. We agree that they are very important. Remember reading Paul’s letter to the Romans and Galations and he talks at great lengths, many chapters, about circumcision, and how under the new covenant that it is no longer required. Paul wanted all to fully understand.
My question is, since the 10 commandments were so very important throughout history, don’t you think God would have made it very clear, if He wanted the day of worship to be changed from Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday? Jesus had the opportunity in the flesh to make this very clear to all.

craig

How this became a discussion of the Sabbath I’m not sure. However, from a Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is and always was (despite the Pharisees which many Christians cite, and not the only Jewish sect at the time) a spiritual separation of the work week from the period of rest, and not merely a “legal” requirement. In fact, none of the 613 commandments are meant to be legalistic, even if some of them may seem trivial; and surely not those based on moral precepts. External practice does not necessarily negate internal spirituality in either Judaism or Catholicism; in fact, it can serve to reinforce spirituality. For example, one may see a beggar and have sympathetic feelings for his plight, yet do nothing. How does such behavior, or lack thereof, help the beggar? Surely praying for him is commendable, but also helping him through direct measures is just as important. Jesus himself would not–did not–approve of merely standing by without exercising compassion in the form of physical assistance. With respect to the Sabbath and all the other laws, it is similar. All the good intentions in the world may not be enough. One must take action: in the case of the Sabbath, by observance of it in the direct form of setting it apart from the rest of the week. “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” is not only a cognitive process, but a behavioral process as outlined by the Law. At the same time, the other commandments–such as keeping kosher, to take one example–are also not meant to be followed merely as a legalistic ritual; but rather, to sanctify ordinary tasks, such as the food we eat and the way that food is prepared, to make these otherwise mundane behaviors holy and not taken for granted. A final point: Jews are permitted to work on the Sabbath in case of need, the prime example being to save a human life. Indeed, any and all of the commandments may be broken in case of a life-or-death emergency since preservation of life always takes precedence above all else. All of the commandments were interpreted at the time as being divided into Loving G-d and Loving thy Neighbor (and Enemy), just as Jesus reiterated these words.

 

[StevieD]

How this became a discussion of the Sabbath I’m not sure. However, from a Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is and always was (despite the Pharisees which many Christians cite, and not the only Jewish sect at the time) a spiritual separation of the work week from the period of rest, and not merely a “legal” requirement. In fact, none of the 613 commandments are meant to be legalistic, even if some of them may seem trivial; and surely not those based on moral precepts. External practice does not necessarily negate internal spirituality in either Judaism or Catholicism; in fact, it can serve to reinforce spirituality. For example, one may see a beggar and have sympathetic feelings for his plight, yet do nothing. How does such behavior, or lack thereof, help the beggar? Surely praying for him is commendable, but also helping him through direct measures is just as important. Jesus himself would not–did not–approve of merely standing by without exercising compassion in the form of physical assistance. With respect to the Sabbath and all the other laws, it is similar. All the good intentions in the world may not be enough. One must take action: in the case of the Sabbath, by observance of it in the direct form of setting it apart from the rest of the week. “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” is not only a cognitive process, but a behavioral process as outlined by the Law. At the same time, the other commandments–such as keeping kosher, to take one example–are also not meant to be followed merely as a legalistic ritual; but rather, to sanctify ordinary tasks, such as the food we eat and the way that food is prepared, to make these otherwise mundane behaviors holy and not taken for granted. A final point: Jews are permitted to work on the Sabbath in case of need, the prime example being to save a human life. Indeed, any and all of the commandments may be broken in case of a life-or-death emergency since preservation of life always takes precedence above all else. All of the commandments were interpreted at the time as being divided into Loving G-d and Loving thy Neighbor (and Enemy), just as Jesus reiterated these words.

This became a discussion on the Sabbath because that is exactly what the OP intended. He is a Seventh Day Adventist who believes that Christians must worship on Saturday to be in obedience to the Commandments. Actually the Jews did not, in biblical times, worship on Saturdays, they merely abstained from work and so fulfilled the Commandment.

 

[meltzerboy]

Between Sunday and the Sabbath there is a great difference. Sunday is a transfer of the Sabbath to the following Day and has a meaning the Sabbath could never have. The Jewish practice of not working on the Sabbath is not something spiritual, just keeping a law; while the Christian belief in the Lord’s Day or Sunday is putting God in our souls.

The New Testament points out that the Old Testament Sabbath is now gone, because Christ has come. For example, in the Gospel of St. Matthew, the disciples were picking ears of corn in a field. The Pharisees protested but Christ came to the defense of His own (Matt. xii, 1-8). He makes it understood that He is free to get rid of this institution. Christ is greater than the Jewish idea of the Sabbath. Christ is the new Sabbath and Temple of the New Testament. He says: “Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls” (Matt. xi, 28-29). There were also several instances where Christ healed on the Sabbath. Christ is the Sabbath, the time of rest. Christ is a living Temple, a spiritual Temple, not that physical building where the Jews had worshipped.

The Jewish Sabbath is indeed considered something spiritual for Jews. It is the separation of the work week from the day of rest and should not be thought of as merely a legalistic ritual. As I mentioned in another post on this thread, for Jews all the 613 commandments are regarded as making mundane behaviors something more spiritual. For example, the kosher laws are designed to make the foods we eat and the way they are prepared important so that we don’t merely take these things for granted, but rather view the process of food preparation and eating as a holy act. This is particularly true of the moral precepts in Judaism. And on the Sabbath, not only do Jews refrain from strenuous work, but they also refrain from many ordinary behaviors that do not require much work, as a further means of separation and sanctification of that day from the rest of the week. The Sabbath is celebrated not only in that “physical building” but first of all at home, where the female of the household lights the Sabbath candles and says the traditional prayers, thus sanctifying the home as a temple. As I wrote elsewhere, external behavior need not nullify internal spirituality, but instead often reinforces it. While noble, all the best intentions, compassion, and even prayer may not help a beggar who needs physical assistance, and Jesus understood that. As a point of fact, in the instance of saving a human life, Jews are not only permitted to work on the Sabbath but required to, since preserving life is the ultimate commandment. All the laws of the Torah are divided into loving G-d and loving one’s fellow man (neighbor as well as enemy), and this is exactly what Jesus said as well.

 

[adrift]

How this became a discussion of the Sabbath I’m not sure. However, from a Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is and always was (despite the Pharisees which many Christians cite, and not the only Jewish sect at the time) a spiritual separation of the work week from the period of rest, and not merely a “legal” requirement. In fact, none of the 613 commandments are meant to be legalistic, even if some of them may seem trivial; and surely not those based on moral precepts. External practice does not necessarily negate internal spirituality in either Judaism or Catholicism; in fact, it can serve to reinforce spirituality. For example, one may see a beggar and have sympathetic feelings for his plight, yet do nothing. How does such behavior, or lack thereof, help the beggar? Surely praying for him is commendable, but also helping him through direct measures is just as important. Jesus himself would not–did not–approve of merely standing by without exercising compassion in the form of physical assistance. With respect to the Sabbath and all the other laws, it is similar. All the good intentions in the world may not be enough. One must take action: in the case of the Sabbath, by observance of it in the direct form of setting it apart from the rest of the week. “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” is not only a cognitive process, but a behavioral process as outlined by the Law. At the same time, the other commandments–such as keeping kosher, to take one example–are also not meant to be followed merely as a legalistic ritual; but rather, to sanctify ordinary tasks, such as the food we eat and the way that food is prepared, to make these otherwise mundane behaviors holy and not taken for granted. A final point: Jews are permitted to work on the Sabbath in case of need, the prime example being to save a human life. Indeed, any and all of the commandments may be broken in case of a life-or-death emergency since preservation of life always takes precedence above all else. All of the commandments were interpreted at the time as being divided into Loving G-d and Loving thy Neighbor (and Enemy), just as Jesus reiterated these words.

Thank you for providing your prospective. It is interesting that we regard the Commandments as only ten when the truth is that there were 613. The OP was "Does the Catholic Church believe/have to obey in the 10 commandments? " As someone mention, it was a gateway to why the Catholic Church worships on Sunday and not the Sabbath. I would love to have you expound more on the commandments but that would be off topic. Thank you though for your insight.

 

[Robbinson]

The Jewish Sabbath is indeed considered something spiritual for Jews. It is the separation of the work week from the day of rest and should not be thought of as merely a legalistic ritual. As I mentioned in another post on this thread, for Jews all the 613 commandments are regarded as making mundane behaviors something more spiritual. For example, the kosher laws are designed to make the foods we eat and the way they are prepared important so that we don’t merely take these things for granted, but rather view the process of food preparation and eating as a holy act. This is particularly true of the moral precepts in Judaism. And on the Sabbath, not only do Jews refrain from strenuous work, but they also refrain from many ordinary behaviors that do not require much work, as a further means of separation and sanctification of that day from the rest of the week. The Sabbath is celebrated not only in that “physical building” but first of all at home, where the female of the household lights the Sabbath candles and says the traditional prayers, thus sanctifying the home as a temple. As I wrote elsewhere, external behavior need not nullify internal spirituality, but instead often reinforces it. While noble, all the best intentions, compassion, and even prayer may not help a beggar who needs physical assistance, and Jesus understood that. As a point of fact, in the instance of saving a human life, Jews are not only permitted to work on the Sabbath but required to, since preserving life is the ultimate commandment. All the laws of the Torah are divided into loving G-d and loving one’s fellow man (neighbor as well as enemy), and this is exactly what Jesus said as well.

Great post - thank you. The Sabbath has also been described, in early rabbinic writings, as a glimpse of what it will be like in heaven (and I’d say, perhaps, a recollection of what it was like the garden of Eden when we walked “in God’s presence”). As believers in Yeshua, that is why we believe the Sabbath is fulfilled in Yeshua (as the Messiah has come and we “rest in him”). Shalom and again, thank you for this interesting and very informative post.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[BTTG]

Could someone explain to me what the significance of the following verses?

(Gen 2:2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

(Gen 2:3) And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Blessed - Strong’s concordance definition= to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit)

**Sanctified **- Strong’s concordance definition= to be (causatively make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): - appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied one, self), X wholly.

Why did God make a seventh day, the same seventh day that we have today ? God could have had a six day week.

Thank you

written with love

 

[Crumpy]

It should be obvious that the seven day creation ending with a sacred day of rest was a foreshadowing of the Sabbath that was to come later.

The Jewish commentaries I have read like to emphasize that creation ended right there in Genesis. So, for example, the Sabbath was created there, but it was not obligatory until later.

The tablets with the commandments on them were (in one view) created by the end of the sixth day and stored away until Moses moseyed along to Sinai to get them.

In fact, parts of Judaism accept that the entire Torah existed before creation and was, as it were, a blueprint for creation and what followed. The Torah was simply revealed later over time.

 

[BTTG]

It should be obvious that the seven day creation ending with a sacred day of rest was a foreshadowing of the Sabbath that was to come later.

The Jewish commentaries I have read like to emphasize that creation ended right there in Genesis. So, for example, the Sabbath was created there, but it was not obligatory until later.

The tablets with the commandments on them were (in one view) created by the end of the sixth day and stored away until Moses moseyed along to Sinai to get them.

In fact, parts of Judaism accept that the entire Torah existed before creation and was, as it were, a blueprint for creation and what followed. The Torah was simply revealed later over time.

Thank you for your response.

If I understand you correctly, you agree that the Sabbath day was created on the seventh day of the creation week.

May I ask, were in the Bible does it mention that "The tablets with the commandments on them were (in one view) created by the end of the sixth day "?

The most important point of why the Sabbath, that was established on the seventh day of creation week, is not a “foreshadowing of a Sabbath to come” . The laws of sacrifices and circumcision were given to man after he had sinned. They were to point sinners symbolically to Jesus. The Sabbath was given to man before he had sinned, as soon as man was created.

You might say that the law was given only to the Jews. Two reasons why not: Abraham kept the Sabbath Day and God also wanted the “Gentiles”, or “stranger” to keep the Sabbath day. the verse below indicates that the “stranger” was not to perform any work at all and rest and worship God on the Sabbath day. Therefore, the Sabbath day and the rest of the commandments were given to the Jews and to all men.

(Exo 20:10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

written with love