Commissioner Keith Towler: Smacking 'doesn't work'

  • Thread starter Thread starter LemonAndLime
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ringil said:
That those with knowledge would share that with others for the betterment of humanity?
Click to expand...
No. But you did point out that we can learn from the past and make changes.

That goes for child psychologists too.😉
 
ringil said:
Though, certainly what we call “spanking” is not abuse, perhaps there are more effective ways of shaping children’s behavior.
…Not everything practiced in the past is ideal and not everything of more modern origin is evil. I believe that this knee-jerk suspicion is guiding at least some of what is attaching posters to the use of spanking. Humans can and should benefit from advances in knowledge.
Click to expand...
I think I pretty much agree with all that you have said. In my situation, any physical punishment is a tool that is used sparingly, mostly for the reasons you outline. I see what you are say as balanced. Not that this is my objection to Towler. My objection to him is that he is using an inflammatory comparison of spanking to assualt and suggestion that government intervene, usurping the proper ordering of the family.
 
ringil said:
You would be hard pressed to find a child psychologist who wouldn’t steer parents away from using spanking and to more effective means.

Not everything practiced in the past is ideal and not everything of more modern origin is evil. I believe that this knee-jerk suspicion is guiding at least some of what is attaching posters to the use of spanking. Humans can and should benefit from advances in knowledge.
Click to expand...
I, like many of the other pro-spanking posters on the CAF, would be willing to put my kids up against yours any day. My boys are well adjusted, loving, smart, successful, and basically living proof that spanking, when properly used, is an effective parenting tool, among others. Its certainly not the only tool, nor is it effective on all kids. Using my God-given intellect, I felt I used it in the appropriate circumstances. My kids are living proof.
 
shockerfan said:
I, like many of the other pro-spanking posters on the CAF, would be willing to put my kids up against yours any day. My boys are well adjusted, loving, smart, successful, and basically living proof that spanking, when properly used, is an effective parenting tool, among others. Its certainly not the only tool, nor is it effective on all kids. Using my God-given intellect, I felt I used it in the appropriate circumstances. My kids are living proof.
Click to expand...
I however am living proof that smacking doesn’t always work. As a child when my parents hit me it made me angry and resent them. I’m not proud of that, but in my experience, violence does not beget respect in anything other than in a primative sense, all it creates is more violence. I suppose I should be glad that my experience made me more of a pacifist rather than going in the opposite direction.

I understand that it does work for some people, but to me, the risks do not outweigh the benefits when you can get the same results using less physical tactics and more patience.
 
LemonAndLime said:
I however am living proof that smacking doesn’t always work. As a child when my parents hit me it made me angry and resent them. I’m not proud of that, but in my experience, violence does not beget respect in anything other than in a primative sense, all it creates is more violence. I suppose I should be glad that my experience made me more of a pacifist rather than going in the opposite direction.

I understand that it does work for some people, but to me, the risks do not outweigh the benefits when you can get the same results using less physical tactics and more patience.
Click to expand...
Child abuse is violence, spanking is not violent. Maybe your parents crossed that line, my dad used a belt. I’m grateful for the way he raised me. The end result of not spanking a child can outweigh the end result of spanking them.
 
LemonAndLime said:
I understand that it does work for some people, but to me, the risks do not outweigh the benefits when you can get the same results using less physical tactics and more patience.
Click to expand...
I agree, physical punishment is easy to overdo.

It may be appropriate to punish behavior that will result in harm to the child. For example, if a young child bites the tail of the family dog, a spank may be in order because if the behavior persists, Fido may inflict corporal punishment of a canine variety.

Because most of us spend a lot of time in environments where our supervisors don’t have patience with us, or place us under various deadlines, our expectations of children are often not realistic, and we tend to be too quick to punish.

This is true of all kinds of punishment, however.
 
shockerfan said:
I, like many of the other pro-spanking posters on the CAF, would be willing to put my kids up against yours any day. My boys are well adjusted, loving, smart, successful, and basically living proof that spanking, when properly used, is an effective parenting tool, among others. Its certainly not the only tool, nor is it effective on all kids. Using my God-given intellect, I felt I used it in the appropriate circumstances. My kids are living proof.
Click to expand...
Well, I don’t know what “put my kids up against yours” means but as I said I believe there may be superior ways to discipline children to using corporal punishment and empirical research backs this up with a lower rate of signs of aggressiveness taken in the aggregate.
 
pnewton said:
This is about as correct historically as believing the Monroe Doctrine is the name of a Louisiana medical clinic. We were using the term “spanking” back in the sixties befor the idea political correctness existed. I use it because that is what the word has always been used for. Calling a spanking physical assault :rolleyes: is what is brand new with this younger generation. The idea that spanking was abusive is a brand new invention. Heck, we used to even have spanking in the public schools, not that I ever needed it.

One caveat: I did on occassion equate being spanked with being eaten by an ogre, but in my defense, I was rather young at the time. Perhaps this is the source of miscommunication, a generational difference between those who have raise kids and those who have not yet done so. In any case, if we care about reality and not the world of make believe, this “hitting” and “assault” rhetoric is the new terminology, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
"Political correctness’ means choosing words that make what you are doing seem mre acceptable, or not offensive to certain groups. It has existed for all time. It was named, taking over a Maoist term, in the 70s. Both right and left do it. This is a case of right-wing use. “Spanking” is hitting. It is an assault. It is not (generally) a major assault. But it is assault nonetheless. Just try doing it to a police officer who is behaving badly.
 
Hokomai said:
"Political correctness’ means choosing words that make what you are doing seem mre acceptable, or not offensive to certain groups. It has existed for all time. It was named, taking over a Maoist term, in the 70s. Both right and left do it. This is a case of right-wing use. “Spanking” is hitting. It is an assault. It is not (generally) a major assault. But it is assault nonetheless. Just try doing it to a police officer who is behaving badly.
Click to expand...
An assault is the threat or act of inflicting bodily harm.

Spanking is not an assault.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
So if someone walks up to you and puts a hand on your shoulder amid conversation it is assault?
Click to expand...
Years ago when “abuse” first came to the light of the modern world, three catagorys were addressed.

Physical Abuse, Psychological Abuse and Verbal Abuse. While I’ll be the first one to agree that this is a very difficult task in todays world, it is todays reality.

We have by large never adjusted to this in the education system. At least from what I have witnessed and recently. We are most definate behind the eight ball here.

Granted in any community which deals with behavior its a known. Here you simply find those who have the right personality/temper to effectively deal. You also find those who through their own fustration or lack of understanding and education in this area are simply not effective. Without a doubt its an issue.

Peace
 
Hokomai said:
Technically yes, and I believe it is so in most jurisdictions deriving from the UK.
Click to expand...
One, you are confusing assault with battery. Assault requires no physical contact. Second, the “victim” must have a reasonable fear of violence. In most case law jurisdictions, any contact must be considered “harmful or offensive”. Gestures of common behavior are not considered even simple assault. To get a conviction of assault/battery for putting your hand on someone’s shoulder would require extensive venue shopping by a negligent prosecutor.

Additionally, to get a conviction, the element of mens rea must be present. It must be proven that the assault was intented to provoke the fear of violence in the victim.

So, while the case can be made that a parent is using “harmful touching” in using corporal punishment on a child, most states have a “parental authority” statute which basically states that a parent (or someone standing in loco parentis, such as a teacher) has the right to using corporal punishment as a means of correction, as long as the physical contact is “proportional, appropriate, and reasonable”.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Child abuse is violence, spanking is not violent. Maybe your parents crossed that line, my dad used a belt. I’m grateful for the way he raised me. The end result of not spanking a child can outweigh the end result of spanking them.
Click to expand...
Spanking certainly doesn’t belong with pacificism, so as far as I’m concerned its either aggressive or violent, or some other word that better describes it. I have never seen it done (with my parents or others) when the parent was calm and composed. It’s always done in anger/annoyance.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Spanking certainly doesn’t belong with pacificism, so as far as I’m concerned its either aggressive or violent, or some other word that better describes it. I have never seen it done (with my parents or others) when the parent was calm and composed. It’s always done in anger/annoyance.
Click to expand...
I’m not mad at my child, I’m disappointed in his behavior. The disappointment is quickly followed by sadness. The sadness for me tends to leave me irritable, until he crawls up in my lap and apologizes, then I’m overwhelmed with pride and love. Spanking is not for every child, my oldest is eleven and he was spanked once. My middle one is 3 and he’s already had a few, but he’s a much more physically active child than my oldest who is more intellectual.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I’m not mad at my child, I’m disappointed in his behavior. The disappointment is quickly followed by sadness. The sadness for me tends to leave me irritable, until he crawls up in my lap and apologizes, then I’m overwhelmed with pride and love. Spanking is not for every child, my oldest is eleven and he was spanked once. My middle one is 3 and he’s already had a few, but he’s a much more physically active child than my oldest who is more intellectual.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I’m not going to judge a parent negatively for using it, I just don’t agree with it myself because of my own experience.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Fair enough. I’m not going to judge a parent negatively for using it, I just don’t agree with it myself because of my own experience.
Click to expand...
I would call your perspective fair, and I admire the way you phrased it. Unfortunately, a number of people in this thread had a bad experience, and therefore want to call all parents who engage in spanking as “abusers”, or would want to pass laws banning it.
 
shockerfan said:
I would call your perspective fair, and I admire the way you phrased it. Unfortunately, a number of people in this thread had a bad experience, and therefore want to call all parents who engage in spanking as “abusers”, or would want to pass laws banning it.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top