Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[Techno2000]

Zoroastrianism Predicts 1844 for its Hushidar Door of Wisdom in terms of the religion of the Arabian, written long before the appearance of Islam:
• When 1,260 years have elapsed from the religion of the Arabian.¼‌Hushidar will appear and the Iranians will kill him.[10] This decodes as the AD 622–1844 Muslim Era (AH 1–1260), and the Bab as Hushidar or Door of Wisdom
• A thousand two hundred and some years…from the inception of the religion of the Arabian and the overthrow of the kingdom of Iran and the degradation of the followers of My religion, a descendent of the Iranian kings will be raised up as a Prophet.[11] This decodes as 1250 Muslim years from the AD 650 (AH 30) defeat of Persia’s last Zoroastrian king Yazdigird to Baha’u’llah’s AD1863 (AH 1280) proclamation as his descendent
• In three separate Dispensations, the sun must…be brought to a standstill. In the first Dispensation…for ten days; in the second for twice that time; in the third for no less than one whole month. For the Muhammadan Dispensation…each day is reckoned as one century…from the setting of the Star of the Imamate to…the Báb [decoding from the AH 260 or AD873 disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to 1844]. The second Dispensation…inaugurated by the Báb…in the year 1260 A.H.…was brought to a close in the year 1280 A.H [decoding as twice ten days of years]. The third Dispensation—the Revelation proclaimed by Baha’u’llah whose duration hath been fixed for a period of one whole month, which is the maximum time taken by the sun to pass through a sign of the Zodiac [decoding as a whole 2147–year zodiac age].[12]

Hinduism Predicts 1844 for its Kali Avatar
• when the practices taught by the Vedas and the institutes of law shall nearly have ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists…in the character of Brahma¼shall descend upon the earth…born as Kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin…then reestablish righteousness upon earth.…The minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as pellucid as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time…shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Krita age. This decodes for 1844 as when the Kali Budding Era of Hinduism switched to its Krita Golden Era.[13]Approximating to the Cycles of Prophecy and Fulfillment, in 1844 the Long Cycle of Hinduism was ended by its 4,800–year Kali Age, and its Truth Cycle was begun by its Krita Golden Era.

Buddhism Predicts 1844 for its Fifth Buddha
• Before this same auspicious aeon runs to the end of its years…there will be Maitreiya. This aeon decodes as Hinduism’s same Kali Era also used by Buddhism. Maitreiya meaning Kindness fits Baha’u’llah’s given name of Husayn that means Kindness and fits him as a Messenger…full of kindness[14].

** Islam Predicts 1844 for its Qaim Twelfth Imam**, saying:
• Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.[17]This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light.[18]Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.[19] This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.[20]This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony

What if it’s off by one Half Moon

 

[worldcitizen]

Why do Baha’is always have to go to the Bible to try and justify their religion, why can’t they use the scriptures from their other manifestations ?

Because we are on a Christian forum and the Bab and Baha’u’llah fulfill the prophecies of the Bible.

 

[Servant19]

Wrong.

John 1:

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and** is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

There is no way out of this Servant. The choice is yours to welcome and accept Jesus into your heart. He who is yours and my Creator.

God from God Light from Light.

Remember?:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Therefore the Son existed from the beginning. The Son from through him we call God our Father.

MJ**

In each aeon Martin, when the Word becomes flesh, that is the ONE AND ONLY WORD BECOMING FLESH.

Did you think that the Word becomes flesh twice in each aeon?

Jesus is the one and only at the time of writing of John, and indeed the one and only Word made flesh on the day before Muhammad came on earth.

“One and only” is claimed by all Manifestations of God.

The reality of the Son transcends time.
The moment the Son becomes flesh, it is the one and only time.

But the Son becomes flesh from age to age, or aeon to aeon, as attested by Krishna long before.

“I come to this earth from age to age”

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

In each aeon Martin, when the Word becomes flesh, that is the ONE AND ONLY WORD BECOMING FLESH.

Did you think that the Word becomes flesh twice in each aeon?

Jesus is the one and only at the time of writing of John, and indeed the one and only Word made flesh on the day before Muhammad came on earth.

“One and only” is claimed by all Manifestations of God.

The reality of the Son transcends time.
The moment the Son becomes flesh, it is the one and only time.

But the Son becomes flesh from age to age, or aeon to aeon, as attested by Krishna long before.

“I come to this earth from age to age”

.

John doesn’t mention any other word incarnating more than once. If John intended what you believed he would have added Abraham and Moses and spoken about them incarnating and their dispensation rather than speaking only about Jesus. In fact we know in the New testament that Jesus was considered greater than both of those prophets.

Hebrews 3:3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.

Your claim of a one and only at the time of the specific manifestation is false especially in light of what we see Abraham and Moses do, namely at certain points they fail to listen to God. Abraham failed by not waiting for God to give him a son by Sarah and instead listened to Sarah and had a child by Hagar. Moses failed once and it cost him his entrance into the Holy land. They were not utterly perfect reflections of God, they were men, holy and great but men who needed saving and failed at times. This is why Jesus is regarded as unique. To speak of Krishna is utterly alien to the story of God since he has no place in it and is a distant fable of which nothing can be known (as you admit when you find phrases you don’t like in the recorded traditions about him).

 

[TonyBS]

What if it’s off by one Half Moon

It happened when it happened, that some of these are very ancient Prophesy’s is more than coincidence.

But it is for everybody to decide. God bless you all

Regards TYony

 

[JimmyDFG]

No my dear friend. The Son is not ONLY Jesus.

The Son existed before Jesus, during Jesus and after Jesus and was manifested in the world as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

.

John 3:16
For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life

That only son would be Jesus. No mention of other sons …such as muhammad, bab, baha’u’llah

 

[Servant19]

John doesn’t mention any other word incarnating more than once. If John intended what you believed he would have added Abraham and Moses and spoken about them incarnating and their dispensation rather than speaking only about Jesus. In fact we know in the New testament that Jesus was considered greater than both of those prophets.

Hebrews 3:3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.

Your claim of a one and only at the time of the specific manifestation is false especially in light of what we see Abraham and Moses do, namely at certain points they fail to listen to God. Abraham failed by not waiting for God to give him a son by Sarah and instead listened to Sarah and had a child by Hagar. Moses failed once and it cost him his entrance into the Holy land. They were not utterly perfect reflections of God, they were men, holy and great but men who needed saving and failed at times. This is why Jesus is regarded as unique. To speak of Krishna is utterly alien to the story of God since he has no place in it and is a distant fable of which nothing can be known (as you admit when you find phrases you don’t like in the recorded traditions about him).

Hi Ignatius, of course John didn’t say that Moses was also the Word made flesh. The purpose of Jesus wasn’t to unify mankind under a diversity of worship. This is the aim of the Baha’i religion 2000 years later.

The central purpose of each Manifestation of God up until Baha’u’llah was to unite mankind under the Manifestation of God FOR THAT AGE, end of story.

The Baha’i Faith does not deny the greater glory in Jesus. Abdu’l-Baha states quite clearly:

“If, in the days of Jesus Christ, the Jews had forsaken imitation and investigated reality, they would assuredly have believed in and accepted Him, for the messianic effulgence was far greater than the Mosaic. The Sun of Reality, when it appeared from the dawning point of Christ, was in the midsummer sun in brilliancy and beauty.” (Promulgation of Universal Peace p 274)

The fact that John didn’t claim something about Moses does not however mean Moses was not possessing that station.
If John had said Moses was also the Word made flesh, why would Jews bother converting to Christianity?

It is only through Baha’u’llah that the unity of Manifestations of God is clarified, yet their greatness and lesser greatness is explained, their distinctions are explained, their specificities of their Mission is explained, and the Truth shines enabling all mankind to unite without having to falsify or degrade their Beloved, through whom they may have found incredible connection with God. Baha’u’llah does not want you to remove that connection and forgo that love.

(Cont.)

.

 

[Servant19]

.

(Cont.)

In regards to Moses disobeying God at Meribah etc, this was falsified by Paul himself where he clearly states that “Moses was FAITHFUL in all God’s house”
How then are we to understand the apparent rebuke addressed by God to Moses for an incident involving the “water of Meribah”. It was for this supposed transgression that Moses and Aaron were denied entry into the Promised Land. “Ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah” (Num. 20.24) Exodus 17 relates that the children of Israel, desperate for water in the desert, “murmured against Moses” and “tempted the Lord, saing, Is the Lord among us, or not?”

Here Moses is completely obedient, it is the people who rebel by quarrelling and testing God. “And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. This is the water of Meribah; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them”

God punished Moses and Aaron for the rebellion of the people, as shown by Moses’s words “ye rebels”. This is again confirmed later, as Moses pleads with God to allow them entry to the Holy Land, and then says “But the Lord was wroth with me for your sakes, and would not hear me.” (Deut 3.25-26) It was on account of His followers’ sins, - not his own - that Moses suffered. He took upon Himself the burden of their guilt, thus suffering punishment in their place and shielding them from the wrath of God.

"In the same way, every Prophet is the expression of the whole of the people. So the promise and speech of God addressed to Him is addressed to all. Generally the speech of reproach and rebuke is rather too severe for the people and would be heartbreaking to them. So the Perfect Wisdom makes use of this form of address, as is clearly shown in the Bible itself, as, for example, when the children of Israel rebelled and said to Moses: “We cannot fight with the Amalekites, for they are powerful, mighty and courageous.” God then rebuked Moses and Aaron, though Moses was in complete obedience and not in rebellion. Surely such a great Man, Who is the mediator of the Divine Bounty and the deliverer of the Law, must necessarily obey the commands of God.” (Some Answered Questions, p. 167)

Viewed in this light, Moses’s actions not only are blameless, but distinctly Christlike.

So how then to understand the following from Hebrews 3.3: “For this man [Jesus] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.” ?

Abdu’l-Baha explains that although the Manifestations of God are one and the same, their Revelations differ according to the capacity of the people:

“If, in the days of Jesus Christ, the Jews had forsaken imitation and investigated reality, they would assuredly have believed in and accepted Him, for the messianic effulgence was far greater than the Mosaic. The Sun of Reality, when it appeared from the dawning point of Christ, was in the midsummer sun in brilliancy and beauty.” (PUP, p 274)

“Likewise, must we set aside prejudice in considering other divine Educators by investigating reality. For instance, let us take Christ. He achieved greater results than Moses.” (PUP, p 345)

“These Manifestations of God have each a two-fold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attribute, thou hast not erred from the truth… The other is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations.” (Kitab-i-Iqan, p 152, 176)

Therefore, in one station, that of “pure abstraction and essential unity” Moses and Jesus are the same. But in the other station the “messianic effulgence” was greater in Jesus and “…He achieved greater results than Moses.”

In summary, we can see that, far from condemning the Manifestations of God as sinful and imperfect, the Bible upholds their integrity and asserts their blamelessness!

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

** Islam Predicts 1844 for its Qaim Twelfth Imam**, saying:
• Everything will ascend to Him on a Day that will measure a thousand years.[17]This decodes from the AH 260 (AD 873) disappearance of the Twelfth Imam to his AH 1260 (1844) Return as the Bab
• In the year ‘GHARS’ the earth shall be illumined by his light.[18]Abjad numerology decodes this as AH 1260 (1844)
• The year of his Revelation is identical with half of that number which is divisible by nine.[19] This decodes as 2560 (the lowest number divisible by all nine digits), half of which renders as the year AH 1260 (1844).
• Concerning the year in which the Qa’im was to be made manifest…in the year sixty his cause shall be revealed and his name noised abroad.[20]This decodes as AH 1260 (1844)

Regards Tony

Sunni have the same views?

 

[Servant19]

John 3:16
For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life

That only son would be Jesus. No mention of other sons …such as muhammad, bab, baha’u’llah

There is no other Son Jimmy, only one Son that manifests itself and becomes flesh from age to age.

In each age it is said that God “gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life”

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Hi Ignatius, of course John didn’t say that Moses was also the Word made flesh. The purpose of Jesus wasn’t to unify mankind under a diversity of worship. This is the aim of the Baha’i religion 2000 years later.

The central purpose of each Manifestation of God up until Baha’u’llah was to unite mankind under the Manifestation of God FOR THAT AGE, end of story.

The Baha’i Faith does not deny the greater glory in Jesus. Abdu’l-Baha states quite clearly:

The fact that John didn’t claim something about Moses does not however mean Moses was not possessing that station.
If John had said Moses was also the Word made flesh, why would Jews bother converting to Christianity?

It is only through Baha’u’llah that the unity of Manifestations of God is clarified, yet their greatness and lesser greatness is explained, their distinctions are explained, their specificities of their Mission is explained, and the Truth shines enabling all mankind to unite without having to falsify or degrade their Beloved, through whom they may have found incredible connection with God. Baha’u’llah does not want you to remove that connection and forgo that love.

(Cont.)

.

Your right, the purpose of Jesus was to unite those who follow him under one worship of the true God. Not multiple contradicting worships of different Gods and different religions. But the point is you are arguing for something that John or none of the New testament authors had in mind. They did not believe what you believe concerning supposed manifestations as is evidenced by what is said of Moses in Hebrews and the account of Abraham in Genesis.

If John believed as you did that there were multiple words or one word which incarnates repeatedly he would have stated this in his opening chapter. The fact that he doesn’t is damning to your argument. It would not have prevented Jews from seeing his point if he said “now Jesus is the latest incarnation of the word for us.” John doesn’t do that, he moves directly from God in the beginning to the word being incarnate now. Your insertion of your own ideas into the text is unjustified and not part of what John has in mind to prove, namely Jesus being the unique son of God.

You can claim your own prophet has revealed things John didn’t know but the fact is the apostles had no conception of the manifestations in the way Bahai do today, that is godlike entities who are utterly perfect. None of the New testament authors felt this way about them and none of the Old testament authors either. If Moses were a mirror of God, a divine ray eternally coming from the father, a unique mediator between God and man, why didn’t God allow Moses to see him and instead see only his back and not his face?

That’s the problem with the bahai account, it forces things back into the narrative which don’t belong or make sense in it.

 

[MartinJordan]

In each aeon Martin, when the Word becomes flesh, that is the ONE AND ONLY WORD BECOMING FLESH.

Did you think that the Word becomes flesh twice in each aeon?

Jesus is the one and only at the time of writing of John, and indeed the one and only Word made flesh on the day before Muhammad came on earth.

“One and only” is claimed by all Manifestations of God.

The reality of the Son transcends time.
The moment the Son becomes flesh, it is the one and only time.

But the Son becomes flesh from age to age, or aeon to aeon, as attested by Krishna long before.

“I come to this earth from age to age”

.

Unfortunately Servant these above thoughts are all over the place.

Furthermore:

Before the coming of this faith,we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed,

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Your right, the purpose of Jesus was to unite those who follow him under one worship of the true God. Not multiple contradicting worships of different Gods and different religions. But the point is you are arguing for something that John or none of the New testament authors had in mind. They did not believe what you believe concerning supposed manifestations as is evidenced by what is said of Moses in Hebrews and the account of Abraham in Genesis.

If John believed as you did that there were multiple words or one word which incarnates repeatedly he would have stated this in his opening chapter. The fact that he doesn’t is damning to your argument. It would not have prevented Jews from seeing his point if he said “now Jesus is the latest incarnation of the word for us.” John doesn’t do that, he moves directly from God in the beginning to the word being incarnate now. Your insertion of your own ideas into the text is unjustified and not part of what John has in mind to prove, namely Jesus being the unique son of God.

You can claim your own prophet has revealed things John didn’t know but the fact is the apostles had no conception of the manifestations in the way Bahai do today, that is godlike entities who are utterly perfect. None of the New testament authors felt this way about them and none of the Old testament authors either. If Moses were a mirror of God, a divine ray eternally coming from the father, a unique mediator between God and man, why didn’t God allow Moses to see him and instead see only his back and not his face?

That’s the problem with the bahai account, it forces things back into the narrative which don’t belong or make sense in it.

Given this response now, I doubt the explanation would have been accepted then as well.

The people were in no way ready to hear the Message now proclaimed. The rest of the world and the complete diversity of Gods Messages was still unknown. Even now when they are known, we still will not try to reconcile with them.

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

.

(Cont.)

In regards to Moses disobeying God at Meribah etc, this was falsified by Paul himself where he clearly states that “Moses was FAITHFUL in all God’s house”
How then are we to understand the apparent rebuke addressed by God to Moses for an incident involving the “water of Meribah”. It was for this supposed transgression that Moses and Aaron were denied entry into the Promised Land. “Ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah” (Num. 20.24) Exodus 17 relates that the children of Israel, desperate for water in the desert, “murmured against Moses” and “tempted the Lord, saing, Is the Lord among us, or not?”

Here Moses is completely obedient, it is the people who rebel by quarrelling and testing God. “And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. This is the water of Meribah; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them”

God punished Moses and Aaron for the rebellion of the people, as shown by Moses’s words “ye rebels”. This is again confirmed later, as Moses pleads with God to allow them entry to the Holy Land, and then says “But the Lord was wroth with me for your sakes, and would not hear me.” (Deut 3.25-26) It was on account of His followers’ sins, - not his own - that Moses suffered. He took upon Himself the burden of their guilt, thus suffering punishment in their place and shielding them from the wrath of God.

Viewed in this light, Moses’s actions not only are blameless, but distinctly Christlike.

So how then to understand the following from Hebrews 3.3: “For this man [Jesus] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.” ?

Abdu’l-Baha explains that although the Manifestations of God are one and the same, their Revelations differ according to the capacity of the people:

Therefore, in one station, that of “pure abstraction and essential unity” Moses and Jesus are the same. But in the other station the “messianic effulgence” was greater in Jesus and “…He achieved greater results than Moses.”

In summary, we can see that, far from condemning the Manifestations of God as sinful and imperfect, the Bible upholds their integrity and asserts their blamelessness!

.

All we need to do is look at what the text of Exodus actually says concerning Moses.

Numbers 20:12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”

The address is not to the people of Israel but to Moses and Aaron for Moses’ disobedience. It wasn’t a good thing he did in being angry and not listening to what God commanded of him. God himself tells Moses what to do and Moses immediately disobeys. It wasn’t because of the people who complained that Moses was condemned not to enter the holy land but because he did not listen to God and acted out of anger in striking the rock. Israel was already punished with not being allowed to enter into the land, Moses wasn’t until this event because of his disobedience. It’s hard for you to accept because you believe Moses to be a greater entity than he actually was.

Hebrews makes the point that while Moses was faithful as a servant, Jesus was faithful as a Son. There is a clear distinguishing between the position of Moses as a servant and Jesus as a Son of God. Therefore when hebrews uses the phrase son of God in respect to Jesus it is using it uniquely because it cannot be applied in that sense to anyone else. If the bahai view were in mind of the author of hebrews he would have said Moses was a son of God like Jesus but he doesn’t. He uses the point to emphasize how much greater Jesus is.

To read Hebrews in the manner you have is actually to ignore the point of Hebrews, which is to demonstrate who Jesus is. That is the concern of the text. The concern of the text was not with a Bahai theology but with a theology concerning Jesus.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Given this response now, I doubt the explanation would have been accepted then as well.

The people were in no way ready to hear the Message now proclaimed. The rest of the world and the complete diversity of Gods Messages was still unknown. Even now when they are known, we still will not try to reconcile with them.

Regards Tony

Thank you for establishing my point that the New testament authors were not Bahai nor were they concerned with Bahai theology concerning who manifestations were. They were concerned with how unique and glorious Christ was, hence why they preached in his name, blessed in his name and dedicated everything in his name. We don’t see Jews doing that sort of thing with Moses mind you. In the Psalms is Moses invoked anywhere like Jesus is invoked in the New testament? Peace and blessings to you, from God our Father and the Lord Moses? May Moses dwell in your hearts? Etc, etc.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Because we are on a Christian forum and the Bab and Baha’u’llah fulfill the prophecies of the Bible.

That’s what the Baha’i believe…not Christians

 

[Servant19]

Unfortunately Servant these above thoughts are all over the place.

Furthermore:

Before the coming of this faith,we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed,

MJ

Yes dear Martin, each Dispensation from God is a guardian, until the Son is made flesh again to relieve us from the fetters of the previous guardian.

Mosaic Law was and should be abolished when Jesus came. Jesus’ Dispensation supersedes and was greater than the Mosaic Dispensation. God’s plan required man to “be” and “do” as Jesus commanded. But the story didn’t end there. You like completion of God’s Word, and demand we finish the totality of the verses Baha’i quote on this forum, yet you are unwilling to do the same to God’s Word, claiming that God’s Word has ended. How limiting on God’s Covenant with man.

Outside of that I cannot see how these thoughts are “all over the place”

Its exactly the same principle of the Old Testament Prophets readying humanity for Jesus. We are simply saying that all the world’s Prophets were readying humanity for Baha’u’llah.

It’s a straightforward and rational concept only rejected by those that are attached to “only Jesus” or “only Moses” or “only Muhammad”…God will be the judge of that attachment.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Yes dear Martin, each Dispensation from God is a guardian, until the Son is made flesh again to relieve us from the fetters of the previous guardian.

Mosaic Law was and should be abolished when Jesus came. Jesus’ Dispensation supersedes and was greater than the Mosaic Dispensation. God’s plan required man to “be” and “do” as Jesus commanded. But the story didn’t end there. You like completion of God’s Word, and demand we finish the totality of the verses Baha’i quote on this forum, yet you are unwilling to do the same to God’s Word, claiming that God’s Word has ended. How limiting on God’s Covenant with man.

Outside of that I cannot see how these thoughts are “all over the place”

Its exactly the same principle of the Old Testament Prophets readying humanity for Jesus. We are simply saying that all the world’s Prophets were readying humanity for Baha’u’llah.

It’s a straightforward and rational concept only rejected by those that are attached to “only Jesus” or “only Moses” or “only Muhammad”…God will be the judge of that attachment.

.

The rational I can see here is you don’t listen to Jesus.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

The rational I can see here is you don’t listen to Jesus.

MJ

I’m sorry you feel that way, however I sincerely believe that I do.

I’ve done everything in my power to investigate God in all His diverse ways throughout the world, and have found that what Jesus is saying is found in Baha’u’llah.

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[Servant19]

Your right, the purpose of Jesus was to unite those who follow him under one worship of the true God. Not multiple contradicting worships of different Gods and different religions. But the point is you are arguing for something that John or none of the New testament authors had in mind. They did not believe what you believe concerning supposed manifestations as is evidenced by what is said of Moses in Hebrews and the account of Abraham in Genesis.

Jesus only inspired John to write what was the necessary and prescribed measure for that age. The concept of a need to worship the Manifestation of God for the age (namely Jesus at that time) was divulged to man by Johns’s Gospel. The future Manifestations of God were also hinted at in the Gospel of John. They were the ones that will guide humanity to all Truth, as “another Comforter” into whom the “Spirit of Truth” will descend upon.

If John believed as you did that there were multiple words or one word which incarnates repeatedly he would have stated this in his opening chapter. The fact that he doesn’t is damning to your argument. It would not have prevented Jews from seeing his point if he said “now Jesus is the latest incarnation of the word for us.” John doesn’t do that, he moves directly from God in the beginning to the word being incarnate now. Your insertion of your own ideas into the text is unjustified and not part of what John has in mind to prove, namely Jesus being the unique son of God.

This is a bit like saying that if Moses believed in a Trinitarian God, He would have said so.
If Moses had believed that the Law is death, He would never have revealed a Law in the first place.
If Moses had believed in original sin, He would have said so and taught about the fall.

You can claim your own prophet has revealed things John didn’t know but the fact is the apostles had no conception of the manifestations in the way Bahai do today, that is godlike entities who are utterly perfect. None of the New testament authors felt this way about them and none of the Old testament authors either. If Moses were a mirror of God, a divine ray eternally coming from the father, a unique mediator between God and man, why didn’t God allow Moses to see him and instead see only his back and not his face?

That’s the problem with the bahai account, it forces things back into the narrative which don’t belong or make sense in it.

Utterly perfect cannot be judged by our own current standards.

Our own current standards tell me that if I go into a market and destroy all the market stalls, release the caged animals which don’t belong to me etc etc, then a sinless being will not be my label

Every Prophet has revealed new things which don’t fit exactly into the narrative we all expect Ignatius. If it fitted exactly into the narrative then all would turn to the new Prophet. Jew would be Christian, Christian would be Muslim, and Muslim would be Baha’i.

The fact that it ISN’T part of the narrative exactly is to test the sincerity and purity of each and every soul that has ever existed. That is your Day of Judgment, and every single soul has had to face it.

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