Connecticut school shooting: Lawmakers offer prayers amid calls for gun control

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pnewton said:
Let me change that. I do see one correctable issue here, that is to address the root problem. We here in this country have slashed funding for the mentally ill. In my own state we are a pitiable 49th out of 50 states in per capita spending on the mentally ill. We warehouse them in prisons and jails, then turn them out again. This is one thing that we can definitely improve on.
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I am not sure of that, though possibly it would be of help. One of the great idiocies of our time, in my opinion, is the largely judicially-imposed limitation on what one can actually do with the mentally ill without violating their 'rights". That has affected state institutions and also the practice of psych medicine. There is always the pressure to reduce, reduce, reduce medications. Why? Because high levels of medication are deemed “coercive” and thus “limiting freedom”. My wife works for an organization that takes care of mentally disabled people, and the pressure is unrelenting until, as one might expect, one of them harms somebody. Well, then, my goodness, we need to have that violent person checked out by mental health people. They do and prescribe meds sufficient to keep the person’s violent propensities in check. Then the pressure to reduce them starts anew until the next episode. Fail to do so and you risk being charged with “abuse”.

One of my daughters, an RN worked for a time in a psych ward. Police would bring in some person who was threatening harm to himself or others. They would evaluate, prescribe what was needed. But once the person was stable, they had to turn him back out on the street so as not to limit his freedom. He would be back, of course, or perhaps dead or in jail.

I’m not sure that spending more money on mental health, in and of itself, will show all that much in the way of result, and precisely because of the pressure to under-restrain, under-report, and under-medicate.

Should we, then, return to the “bad old days” when obviously insane people would get locked up in psych wards and kept medicated in order to avoid the harm they might cause? Well, they have shut down most of those anyway in favor of “community integration” of the very seriously insane. But to the extent we don’t end the radical view of the “rights” of the truly insane, we’re not going to be able to avoid things like this event. Look at the “Batman” killer. His psych knew, or certainly should have known, how insane he was, but apparently felt she couldn’t tell anybody because it would violate HIPAA to do it. The last I knew, she was still resisting turning his records over to law enforcement.

And it’s no good to say nobody knows how insane some of these people are. Somebody or other always knows; sometimes several somebodies, and that person or persons know there is next to nothing anybody can do about it in advance of some horrible event like this.
 
LEMAITRE said:
Australia took a different path after the Port Arthur massacre and it appears to be succeeding.

Below is an extract from an essay by a former Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard who enacted these new laws.

**"The Second Amendment, crafted in the immediate post-revolutionary years, is more than 200 years old and was designed to protect the right of local communities to raise and maintain militia for use against external threats (including the newly formed national government!). It bears no relationship at all to the circumstances of everyday life in America today. Yet there is a near religious fervour about protecting the right of Americans to have their guns - and plenty of them.

In this respect it is worth noting that the local police claim that James Holmes, the man now formally charged over the Aurora shootings, had in his possession an AR15 assault rifle (similar to one used by Martin Bryant at Port Arthur), a shotgun and two Glock handguns and 6000 rounds of ammunition. All had been legally obtained.

Research published in 2010 in the American Journal of Law and Economics found that firearm homicides, in Australia, dropped 59 per cent between 1995 and 2006. There was no offsetting increase in non-firearm-related murders. Researchers at Harvard University in 2011 revealed that in the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102 deaths. There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur laws.

A key component of the 1996 measure, which banned the sale, importation and possession of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, was a national buy-back scheme involving the compulsory forfeiture of newly illegal weapons. Between 1996 and 1998 more than 700,000 guns were removed and destroyed. This was one-fifth of Australia’s estimated stock of firearms. The equivalent in the US would have been 40 million guns. Australia’s action remains one of the largest destructions of civilian firearms.

Australia is a safer country as a result of what was done in 1996. It will be the continuing responsibility of current and future federal and state governments to ensure the effectiveness of those anti-gun laws is never weakened.

The US is a country for which I have much affection. There are many American traits which we Australians could well emulate to our great benefit. But when it comes to guns we have been right to take a radically different path."**
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**Though lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer
country, the nation’s crime statistics tell a different story:
Code: 
Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;

Assaults are up 8.6 percent;

Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;

In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed
300 percent;

In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been
dropping steadily;

There has been a reported “dramatic increase” in home burglaries
and assaults on the elderly.
At the time of the ban, which followed an April 29, 1996
shooting at a Port Arthur tourist spot by lone gunman Martin Bryant, the
continent had an annual murder-by-firearm rate of about 1.8 per 100,000
persons, “a safe society by any standards,” said Tidswell. But such low
rates of crime and rare shootings did not deter then-Prime Minister John
Howard from calling for and supporting the weapons ban.**
Read more at wnd.com/2000/03/1933/#PRWGGujCIAe3ht8l.99
 
JohnVictor said:
**Though lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer
country, the nation’s crime statistics tell a different story:
Code: 
Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;

Assaults are up 8.6 percent;

Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;

In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed
300 percent;

In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been
dropping steadily;

There has been a reported “dramatic increase” in home burglaries
and assaults on the elderly.
At the time of the ban, which followed an April 29, 1996
shooting at a Port Arthur tourist spot by lone gunman Martin Bryant, the
continent had an annual murder-by-firearm rate of about 1.8 per 100,000
persons, “a safe society by any standards,” said Tidswell. But such low
rates of crime and rare shootings did not deter then-Prime Minister John
Howard from calling for and supporting the weapons ban.**
Read more at wnd.com/2000/03/1933/#PRWGGujCIAe3ht8l.99
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, he provides NO sources for his crime statistics.

The sources he does provide are pre- new gun laws implementation.

More opinion with very little facts to support his views on a less than reliable site.
 
JohnVictor said:
BTW… anyone here like to offer an opinion as to why so many of these killers choose “GUN FREE” zones such as Schools or Churches… and not Gun Shows, Gun Ranges, and Gun Stores?
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Often these shooters have a grudge against someone or a motive that has to do with the place. They kill bystanders, but they are usually targeting someone or some place.

The VT and Columbine shooters were angry about things that happened at their schools, so that’s where they went. Other shooters are targeting specific people - ex-wives, girlfriends, bosses - and so they go to where that person is.

Someone who is degranged enough to shoot other humans in cold blood isn’t worried about somone else having a gun. Often they end up killing themselves as well anyway.

As the discussion has already moved to - the issue is the mental health of the suspect, not their choice of weapon.
 
LEMAITRE;10134042 said:
"The Second Amendment, crafted in the immediate post-revolutionary years, is more than 200 years old and was designed to protect the right of local communities to raise and maintain militia for use against external threats (including the newly formed national government!). It bears no relationship at all to the circumstances of everyday life in America today. Yet there is a near religious fervour about protecting the right of Americans to have their guns - and plenty of them.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, the U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with Mr. Howard’s interpretation of the U.S.Constitution. Seemingly, the Court has refrained from putting its interpretation on the Australian Constitution.
 
LEMAITRE said:
Australia took a different path after the Port Arthur massacre and it appears to be succeeding.

Below is an extract from an essay by a former Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard who enacted these new laws.

**"The Second Amendment, crafted in the immediate post-revolutionary years, is more than 200 years old and was designed to protect the right of local communities to raise and maintain militia for use against external threats (including the newly formed national government!). It bears no relationship at all to the circumstances of everyday life in America today. Yet there is a near religious fervour about protecting the right of Americans to have their guns - and plenty of them.

In this respect it is worth noting that the local police claim that James Holmes, the man now formally charged over the Aurora shootings, had in his possession an AR15 assault rifle (similar to one used by Martin Bryant at Port Arthur), a shotgun and two Glock handguns and 6000 rounds of ammunition. All had been legally obtained.

Research published in 2010 in the American Journal of Law and Economics found that firearm homicides, in Australia, dropped 59 per cent between 1995 and 2006. There was no offsetting increase in non-firearm-related murders. Researchers at Harvard University in 2011 revealed that in the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102 deaths. There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur laws.

A key component of the 1996 measure, which banned the sale, importation and possession of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, was a national buy-back scheme involving the compulsory forfeiture of newly illegal weapons. Between 1996 and 1998 more than 700,000 guns were removed and destroyed. This was one-fifth of Australia’s estimated stock of firearms. The equivalent in the US would have been 40 million guns. Australia’s action remains one of the largest destructions of civilian firearms.

Australia is a safer country as a result of what was done in 1996. It will be the continuing responsibility of current and future federal and state governments to ensure the effectiveness of those anti-gun laws is never weakened.

The US is a country for which I have much affection. There are many American traits which we Australians could well emulate to our great benefit. But when it comes to guns we have been right to take a radically different path."**
Click to expand...
Code: 
Link to article?
Links to data?  

No credibility w/o them... sorry.
 
JohnVictor said:
**BTW… anyone here like to offer an opinion as to why so many of these killers choose “GUN FREE” zones such as Schools or Churches… and not Gun Shows, Gun Ranges, and Gun Stores?
**
🙂
.
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Great point. 👍
 
I voted no because the problem is with the culture of death, abortion, disordered ways people are living, materialism, broken homes, and the biggest thing is people not believing in Jesus Christ.
If a young person is frustrated or unhappy and feels there is no hope what would you do? When we believe and follow Christ we live a whole different way than those that don’t. We have hope even if everything falls apart . We know God is there with us and that there is life eternal. If we could give our young people hope and the words of Christ things would change. Maybe we need to evangelize by seeking out those who need help but would never ask. The apostles did it in every town. We might need to go back to that just like they did. I think so many young people are not hearing the words of Jesus Christ and the truth he brings to each one of us.

Blessings,
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
People haven’t had funerals yet, and others fight for gun rights…Priorities…
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And I’ll wager dollars to donuts they are already seeing the anti-gun sermons on the nightly news…also in advance of the funerals. Do you also condemn those priorities, or the priorities of the politicians who you know very well are preparing for the next gun control proposals, utilizing this tragedy to do so, and which we will absolutely see unveiled within days, if not hours?

But for that, I don’t believe people would be talking about gun rights. People protest when they’re threatened.
 
JohnVictor said:
I submit that if he knew that even some teachers carried guns in that school… he would have never went there.

Or if he did go to that school… he would NOT have been able to walk uncontested from room to room, killing children at will.

BTW… anyone here like to offer an opinion as to why so many of these killers choose “GUN FREE” zones such as Schools or Churches… and not Gun Shows, Gun Ranges, and Gun Stores?
Code: 
 They like to test the invisible barrier that is the "Gun Free Zone"
.
Click to expand...
 
Ridgerunner said:
And I’ll wager dollars to donuts they are already seeing the anti-gun sermons on the nightly news…also in advance of the funerals. Do you also condemn those priorities, or the priorities of the politicians who you know very well are preparing for the next gun control proposals, utilizing this tragedy to do so, and which we will absolutely see unveiled within days, if not hours?

But for that, I don’t believe people would be talking about gun rights. People protest when they’re threatened.
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We know what to expect from the secular media, and I doubt the family members watching tv this evening. This is a Catholic forum.

Someone called for more spreading of the Gospel, but I haven’t seen much Gospel in this thread.
 
LEMAITRE said:
Interestingly enough, he provides NO sources for his crime statistics.

The sources he does provide are pre- new gun laws implementation.

More opinion with very little facts to support his views on a less than reliable site.
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In the US at least, all websites and news sources should be reflected on. WND has not edited 911 tapes as NBC did in the case of Zimmerman.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
We know what to expect from the secular media, and I doubt the family members watching tv this evening. This is a Catholic forum.

Someone called for more spreading of the Gospel, but I haven’t seen much Gospel in this thread.
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Post #305 in the thread as follows:
MJE said:
Last week during a parish mission Father Wade Menezes stated that when there is a proliferation of sin evil surfaces. This is an issue of spirits and principalities. Pick up your rosary. We must turn back to God.
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My mom correctly said today that this is no time to advocate a political position, as i myself have. We must pray for the salvation of the souls of the people who died today. God Bless you all, let us join together in prayer
 
sowinskija said:
My mom correctly said today that this is no time to advocate a political position. We must pray for the salvation of the souls of the people who died today. God Bless you all, let us join in prayer
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Amen
 
I haven’t seen it mentioned, the first thing I thought of was that incident in Norway where that guy (Breivik?) went around shooting at a school.

Guest on Fox says the biggest underlying factor is these guys who do this are sociopaths.
 
How about these politicians agree to ban guns, if the other side bans abortions? Everybody wins. I know it won’t really happen, but think about it. Both sides feel so strongly about these
issues.
I myself, have always defended the right to bear arms, but don’t feel it’s the time for politicians to bring this up on the same day these families are in freaking shock because their babies have been taken away by someone possessed.

Babies for gun control I say. Unrealistic for either side to try and compromise I’m sure.

What a “culture of death.” We continue to pray to Jesus as these children are “reunited” with there savoir Jesus Christ. My wife asked how God could let this happen. I told her God gives us free will and it isn’t God that is destrying his own creations. The evil one is working harder than ever.

Traditional marriage will no longer exist soon after the supreme court approves homosexual marriage
Catholic hospitals will soon not exist after Obamacare is implemented
Merry Christmas has been renamed Happy Holidays
Christian brothers ans sisters continue to get massacred all over the world and none of our news covers it
I know it sounds old, but the mainstream media continues to brainwash and distract from the truth
God is being removed from everything and being replaced with nothing

But, God is in control and has a plan. That is why I pray constantly for patience and understanding with what I need to know.

Hopefully events like this can lead us all to reflect and become better Christians.
 
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