Connecticut school shooting: Lawmakers offer prayers amid calls for gun control

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George_Stegmeir said:
;10133291:
I am not going to debate either of you on the subject of Gun Control, except that if you do not like our 2nd Amendment rights, you are free to attempt to change our Constitution or find somewhere else, that doesnt permit firearms to live-like Canada-.
Holy Mother the Church is actually mute on the subject of firearms. However, she doe permit lethal force in ones self defense and in the defense of others. Various Clergy are at odds about this, just as are many other Americans. Anti-firearms beliefs are not manditory in our church.
Just as you excoriated the pro-gunner, don’t you twist Catholic Doctrine to your own ends.
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i dont twist catholic doctrine. i have only seen you conservative catholics do that. conservative catholics are hypocrites when it comes to reconciling political beliefs with church teaching. interestingly they find a loophole when it comes to maters of their political beliefs and church teaching, yet they vehemently attack left wing catholics.

you conservative catholics need to understand the difference between an infallible declaration of the church, and just the personal opinions of the priests, popes, or bishops. for example, voting for civil gay marriage is something which is not infallibly forbidden. therefore when we left wingers vote for pro gay candidates we are not acting gravely against church teaching. its the same wth gun control laws, the church gives its opinion on the matter, but it does not speak infallibly on the subject. now, heres where the hypocrisy is manifest. you conservatives ignore church recommendations when it comes to your politics (i.e gun control), however you judge us left wing catholics for doing the same thing. see what i mean? i am intellectually consistent, you conservative catholics on the other hand think that the catholic church is the mouthpiece of the republican party and you atttempt to rationalise away any contradictions between the two institutions. thats what im seeing.
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JohnVictor said:
These experts agreed that gun control worked VERY well:

Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Idi Amin, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot and Kim Jong-il

.
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ad hitlerum fallacy. hey hitler also ate food, and wore shoes, so by your logic we should stop these things immediately or else we are the same as Hitler!
 
someperson555 said:
i dont twist catholic doctrine. i have only seen you conservative catholics do that. conservative catholics are hypocrites when it comes to reconciling political beliefs with church teaching. interestingly they find a loophole when it comes to maters of their political beliefs and church teaching, yet they vehemently attack left wing catholics.

you conservative catholics need to understand the difference between an infallible declaration of the church, and just the personal opinions of the priests, popes, or bishops. for example, voting for civil gay marriage is something which is not infallibly forbidden. therefore when we left wingers vote for pro gay candidates we are not acting gravely against church teaching. its the same wth gun control laws, the church gives its opinion on the matter, but it does not speak infallibly on the subject. now, heres where the hypocrisy is manifest. you conservatives ignore church recommendations when it comes to your politics (i.e gun control), however you judge us left wing catholics for doing the same thing. see what i mean? i am intellectually consistent, you conservative catholics on the other hand think that the catholic church is the mouthpiece of the republican party and you atttempt to rationalise away any contradictions between the two institutions. thats what im seeing.
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You left wing “Catholics” knowingly vote for candidates who openly support and enable infanticide and then come on here lecturing us about the evils of gun ownership. I have zero respect for your opinions on anything.
 
someperson555 said:
George Stegmeir;10133902:
i dont twist catholic doctrine. i have only seen you conservative catholics do that. conservative catholics are hypocrites when it comes to reconciling political beliefs with church teaching. interestingly they find a loophole when it comes to maters of their political beliefs and church teaching, yet they vehemently attack left wing catholics.

you conservative catholics need to understand the difference between an infallible declaration of the church, and just the personal opinions of the priests, popes, or bishops. for example, voting for civil gay marriage is something which is not infallibly forbidden. therefore when we left wingers vote for pro gay candidates we are not acting gravely against church teaching. its the same wth gun control laws, the church gives its opinion on the matter, but it does not speak infallibly on the subject. now, heres where the hypocrisy is manifest. you conservatives ignore church recommendations when it comes to your politics (i.e gun control), however you judge us left wing catholics for doing the same thing. see what i mean? i am intellectually consistent, you conservative catholics on the other hand think that the catholic church is the mouthpiece of the republican party and you atttempt to rationalise away any contradictions between the two institutions. thats what im seeing.
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Actually, places with strict gun control seem to have higher rates of violence like Chicago. I’m on the sidelines on this, I don’t have guns, I stay away from dangerous areas. But I do try to balance the scales. I voted “I don’t know” via gun control. Obviously, youngsters and all of these guys lately have been in their 20s as well as a lot of what goes on in gang warfare are the ones doing all this the most.

Not sure if everyone else should be penalized (penalised using the Queen’s English!).
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Bill_Martin said:
Irrelevant. They have a very different culture. The criminals there don’t even target tourists because it will make their country look bad.
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Circular argument. Part of what is different about Japan’s culture is that they are not gun-happy.
 
Bill_Martin said:
someperson555;10134239:
You left wing “Catholics” knowingly vote for candidates who openly support and enable infanticide and then come on here lecturing us about the evils of gun ownership. I have zero respect for your opinions on anything.
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first of all abortion is a different matter, and i didnt even mention it. dont put words in our mouths. and just who do you think you are? honestly how dare you?
you conservative “catholics” think you are better when you vote for a WAR which kills millions of people as well? how can you conservatives claim ANY moral high ground. you hypocrites.
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BroomWagon said:
[Actually, places with strict gun control seem to have higher rates of violence like Chicago. I’m on the sidelines on this, I don’t have guns, I stay away from dangerous areas. But I do try to balance the scales. I voted “I don’t know” via gun control. Obviously, youngsters and all of these guys lately have been in their 20s as well as a lot of what goes on in gang warfare are the ones doing all this the most.

Not sure if everyone else should be penalized (penalised using the Queen’s English!).
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america has the highest rate of gun crime out of the 23 richest nations! thats proof enough taht its time to ban guns
[/quote]
 
Schism_hater said:
Circular argument. Part of what is different about Japan’s culture is that they are not gun-happy.
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And they are a largely homogenuous society and caused a lot of mayhem and committed unspeakable acts some 60-65 years ago.
 
someperson555 said:
Bill Martin;10134248:
first of all abortion is a different matter, dont put words in our mouths. and just who do you think you are? honestly how dare you?
you think you are better when you vote for a WAR which kills millions of people as well? how can you claim ANY moral high ground. you hypocrites.
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I didn’t vote for a war or candidates who started it, but thanks for playing.
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Facts are the high crime areas are the areas with the strictest gun controls in the United States.
Again, it strikes me that most of these shooters are early 20s. Age limit? That wouldn’t be the way to go but this is who are doing these.
 
Dawnia said:
In this shooting, it doesn’t appear that this shooter owned any guns. So how would preventing him from buying a gun have prevented this shooting?
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His mother did, probabaly legally, and he took her guns. That is what you guys just don’t get, if guns are around, legally or not, someone with bad intentions can get ahold of them. It is the idolatry of guns that exposes the innocent like the children of Newtown to mortal danger.
 
Bill_Martin said:
i was generalising, and you CANT deny the FACT that many so called “catholics” support illegal and unjust war. so drop your self righteous attitude, get off your moral high horse. and either be consistent, if your going to judge left wing catholics for not following OPINIONS of certain bishops, then you follow EVERY declaration of the church as well wether infallible or not. so no more rationalizing and finding little loop holes to justify your conservative beliefs. if you expect others to follow evety bit of church teaching, you do the same. you cant serve two Gods, its either your political beliefs or the church. choose.*
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Schism_hater said:
His mother did, probabaly legally, and he took her guns. That is what you guys just don’t get, if guns are around, legally or not, someone with bad intentions can get ahold of them. It is the idolatry of guns that exposes the innocent like the children of Newtown to mortal danger.
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So he committed theft (a crime), took the guns to a school (a crime), and shot at people (another crime). How would regulating purchases of firearms have stopped this? It wouldn’t. The only thing that can stop this is another person with a gun.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Too bad the good men at the school are not allowed to do anything because the gun laws prohibit them from it.
 
JohnVictor said:
OMG Tell me that was a joke…

LOL

.
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hey, if you use childish logic, im not going to take you seriously. stop using fallacies, i swear, conservatives should really read up on argument fallacies. because they use A LOT.
 
TimeEntrance said:
I was informed online by some people from Britain that the criteria for violent crime and the statistics related to it are different in the U.K. than in the U.S.
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Having lived in London myself, I wouldn’t doubt it. Maybe things have changed there, but I had no trouble riding the Tube by myself as an 8 yr old whereas the climate in Chicago was such that I was scared to ride the L going to a high school basketball game.

Things are definitely different in the two countries.
 
someperson555 said:
america has the highest rate of gun crime out of the 23 richest nations! thats proof enough taht its time to ban guns
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Is there a reason for not capitaliSing America? If you are not over here, you don’t know what it is like. You are the one being so judgmental.

If 20 year old lost kids are committing these crimes, it won’t help to take away guns from older generations. So you don’t have proof at all.
 
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