T
TarAshly
Guest
again you take the minority and mutate them into the entire gay community.
- Status
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
So children are to be blamed for their parents, are they ?
Then let all children who are:black
brown
Chinese
non-English speaking
born out of wedlock
mentally defective
spastic
Mongoloid
epileptic
sickly
not manly enough
born infected with AIDS
the wrong sex
paraplegic
or otherwise deficient, be removed.
This sort of stupidity gives conservatve-style Catholicism a thoroughly well-deserved bad name.
Apologies to any who finds words such as “Mongoloid” (for example) offensive - one sometimes has to use offensive words to make a point about human stupidity.
I think it’s amazing that children should be blamed for the shortcomings of their parents. ##
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Which is better - to be brought up by two attentive and loving parents of the same sex, who do their level best to treat the child properly; or to insist the child be brought up by a feckless, irresponsible, and violent pair of married & heterosexual male and female Catholic Mass-goers ?
And where does the Church say that same-sex adoption is “gravely wrong” ? ##
B
Brad
Guest
Oh… I’m not always such a joy but thanks for the consideration and I also look forward to future discussions.
B
Brad
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:
Oh, I’ll take the feckless, irresponsible, violent, drug smuggling, gun toting, satan worshipping, foul-mothed and uncaring heteorosexual mass goers please.
Give me break.
Ask a reasonable question if you want a reasonable answer.
S
StJeanneDArc
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:## So children are to be blamed for their parents, are they ?
Then let all children who are:
black
brown
Chinese
non-English speaking
born out of wedlock
mentally defective
spastic
Mongoloid
epileptic
sickly
not manly enough
born infected with AIDS
the wrong sex
paraplegic
or otherwise deficient, be removed.
This sort of stupidity gives conservatve-style Catholicism a thoroughly well-deserved bad name.
Apologies to any who finds words such as “Mongoloid” (for example) offensive - one sometimes has to use offensive words to make a point about human stupidity.
I think it’s amazing that children should be blamed for the shortcomings of their parents. ##
Gottle, did you read through the whole thread?
I ask this because your comments don’t seem to take into account the extensive discussion we’ve had on this topic. It’s digressed a lot but the main question seems to be one of the prudential judgement of exposing kindergarten children to this malformed family.
I think it’s horrifying that children are being forced to live with this pair of homosexuals flaunting their immoral lifestyle as just another wholesome family structure.
N
Nicole
Guest
But, on the flipside, to take a “Christian” like that man who stood outside Matthew Shepard’s funeral and mutate them into the entire Christian community is also an error. There are hateful and unfortunately very vocal minorities on both sides of any contentious issue.
God Bless, Nicole
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
“Your mum’s a stripper - so you needn’t come to this school, because we’re Christians.”
“Your “parents” are two gay men - so you needn’t come to this school, because we’re Christians.”
That’s two examples of children in trouble for the short-comings of their parents; who will be the next child to be persona non grata for reasons not of his or her making ?
Every pogrom starts with one corpse - and every nasty tendency in a Church starts with one or two isolated incidents. That is all it takes to set a trend: for good, or ill.
BTW, what is “sinning against Christianity” ? As is well known, Jesus had no time for prostitutes, tax-collecting quislings, and other “undesirables”. “Christianity” can go hang - WWJD ? ##
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:
Have you read the thread?Most people here know the kids should be allowed to stay in school,the parents who put the child in the spotlight should be ashamed.You haven’t read the threads,you just want to attack.Well,go on then spike.God Bless
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Your statement is almost funny given my extensive knowledge and interaction with homosexuals. I’m involved in an industry where homosexuals are well over 50% in the profession. I have homosexual friends, pay homosexuals for services, see them every day. Why do you think I am both ignorant or not compassionate with respect to homosexuals? Because I don’t want them to raise children? Because I am well aware of the complications and sad results of this “lifestyle?” Again you completely ignore study after study after study…not to mention the teachings of the Church. But if I don’t agree with you then I am ignorant? Huh?
Homosexuality is abnormal behavior. Ask any biologist. Any species for which homosexual activities were normal would die out. Species are designed to procreate and survive into the next generation. Homosexual activity by definition is not procreative. Ergo, it’s abnormal. Please explain the rationale by which you have concluded that homosexual activity is normal. I’m quite interested.
Second, I think the welfare of children come first. They are not accessories or status symbols or a means to pretend you are living a normal life. I frankly think homosexuals who wish to obtain children are doing it for themselves, not for the child’s benefit. And yes there are extreme cases. I heard a story about two male nurses who have adopted some medically fragile children. In such case I do believe their motives are pure. OTOH when I see a New Yorker article about two homosexuals who basically pay a woman to bear a child, I am utterly sickened by their selfishness and lack of concern about the child’s welfare.
As to your own sad situation, lack of ability to conceive has ZERO to do with whether you are worthy to have a child. How did that get into the discussion?
Lisa N
M
mlchance
Guest
I can document every single claim from reputable social science journals and publications. For example, one study entitled “Homosexual Parents” from Adolescence 31 (1996) showed that rates of sexual molestation by homosexual parents occured in 29% of the case studies, compared to only 0.6% by heterosexual parents.
Male-on-male sexual abuse of children accounts for about one-third of instances, even though heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals in the general population by about 20-to-1. The book The Gay Report (Summit Books, 1979) reported data that showed 73% of adult homosexuals surveyed had had sex with adolescent boys. A study in Behavior Research and Therapy found that male pedophiles who preferred male victims were sexually attracted to males of all ages. W. D. Erickson reported in Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1998) that 86% of male pedophiles against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
Need I continue?
– Mark L. Chance.
F
fix
Guest
***Q: Could you explain why homosexuality is not normal, from a medical standpoint? ***
Fitzgibbons: Homosexuality was diagnosed and treated as a psychiatric illness – abnormal behavior – until 1973, when it was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual in psychiatry because of political pressure.
Numerous conflicts make homosexual behaviors abnormal, including rampant promiscuity, inability to maintain commitment, psychiatric disorders and medical illnesses with a shortened life span.
The sexual practices of homosexuals involve serious health risks and illness. Specifically, sodomy as a sexual behavior is associated with significant and life-threatening health problems.
Unhealthy sexual behaviors occur among both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Yet the medical and social science evidence indicate that homosexual behavior is uniformly unhealthy. Men having sex with other men leads to greater health risks than men having sex with women, not only because of promiscuity but also because of the nature of sex among men.
***Q: Is homosexuality associated specifically with psychological problems? Can an active homosexual lifestyle lead to adverse psychological consequences? ***
Fitzgibbons: Two extensive studies appearing in the October 2000 issue of the American Medical Association’s Archives of General Psychiatry confirm a strong link between homosexual sex and suicide, as well as a relationship between homosexuality and emotional and mental problems.
One of the studies in the journal, by David M. Ferguson and his team, found that “gay, lesbian and bisexual young people are at increased risk of psychiatric disorder and suicidal behaviors.”
The youth suffering from these disorders were four times as likely as their peers to suffer from major depression, almost three times as likely to suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, nearly four times as likely to experience conduct disorder, five times as likely to have nicotine dependence, six times as likely to suffer from multiple disorders, and over six times as likely to have attempted suicide.
An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries – in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands.
So a high rate of psychiatric disorders associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that psychiatric disease cannot be attributed to social rejection and homophobia. The Dutch study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, did indeed find a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with same-sex sex behaviors.
Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interview, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder.
Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence.
In fact, those with a history of homosexual contact had higher prevalence of nearly all psychiatric disorders measured in the study.
Also, a recent study in the American Journal of Public Health has shown that 39% of males with same-sex attraction have been abused by other males with same-sex attraction.
Fitzgibbons: Homosexuality was diagnosed and treated as a psychiatric illness – abnormal behavior – until 1973, when it was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual in psychiatry because of political pressure.
Numerous conflicts make homosexual behaviors abnormal, including rampant promiscuity, inability to maintain commitment, psychiatric disorders and medical illnesses with a shortened life span.
The sexual practices of homosexuals involve serious health risks and illness. Specifically, sodomy as a sexual behavior is associated with significant and life-threatening health problems.
Unhealthy sexual behaviors occur among both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Yet the medical and social science evidence indicate that homosexual behavior is uniformly unhealthy. Men having sex with other men leads to greater health risks than men having sex with women, not only because of promiscuity but also because of the nature of sex among men.
***Q: Is homosexuality associated specifically with psychological problems? Can an active homosexual lifestyle lead to adverse psychological consequences? ***
Fitzgibbons: Two extensive studies appearing in the October 2000 issue of the American Medical Association’s Archives of General Psychiatry confirm a strong link between homosexual sex and suicide, as well as a relationship between homosexuality and emotional and mental problems.
One of the studies in the journal, by David M. Ferguson and his team, found that “gay, lesbian and bisexual young people are at increased risk of psychiatric disorder and suicidal behaviors.”
The youth suffering from these disorders were four times as likely as their peers to suffer from major depression, almost three times as likely to suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, nearly four times as likely to experience conduct disorder, five times as likely to have nicotine dependence, six times as likely to suffer from multiple disorders, and over six times as likely to have attempted suicide.
An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries – in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands.
So a high rate of psychiatric disorders associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that psychiatric disease cannot be attributed to social rejection and homophobia. The Dutch study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, did indeed find a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with same-sex sex behaviors.
Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interview, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder.
Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence.
In fact, those with a history of homosexual contact had higher prevalence of nearly all psychiatric disorders measured in the study.
Also, a recent study in the American Journal of Public Health has shown that 39% of males with same-sex attraction have been abused by other males with same-sex attraction.
F
fix
Guest
***Q: What are the medical illnesses associated with homosexuality? ***
Code:
**Fitzgibbons:** The list of medical diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of abnormal homosexual behavior is alarming: anal cancer, chlamydia trachomatis, cryptosporidium, giardia lamblia, herpes simplex virus, human immunodeficiency virus or HIV, human papilloma virus -- HPV or genital warts -- isospora belli, microsporidia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis types B and C, and syphilis.
Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown. Others, while found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners, are clearly predominated by those involved in homosexual activity.
Men who have sex with men account for the lion's share of the increasing number of cases in America of sexually transmitted infections that are not generally spread through sexual contact.
These diseases, with consequences that range from severe and even life-threatening to mere annoyances, include hepatitis A, giardia lamblia, entamoeba histolytica, Epstein-Barr virus, neisseria meningitides, shigellosis, salmonellosis, pediculosis, scabies and campylobacter.
***Q: Many professional medical groups have stopped classifying homosexuality as abnormal behavior, and pro-homosexual organizations actively promote it as just another option that is perfectly normal. Is this responsible from a medical point of view? ***
**Fitzgibbons:** Most medical groups have embraced the homosexual agenda and are advocating that lifestyle, despite all of the scientific studies and medical evidence that demonstrate medical and psychological risks. **It seems the politically correct homosexual agenda is trumping science. **
Doctors have a responsibility to inform their clients of the dangers of a homosexual lifestyle. In his study "The Health Risks of Gay Sex," my colleague Dr. John R. Diggs Jr. wrote, "As a physician, it is my duty to assess behaviors for their impact on health and well-being. When something is beneficial, such as exercise, good nutrition or adequate sleep, it is my duty to recommend it. Likewise, when something is harmful, such as smoking, overeating, alcohol or drug abuse, it is my duty to discourage it. ...
"There are differences between men and women in the consequences of same-sex activity. But most importantly, the consequences of homosexual activity are distinct from the consequences of heterosexual activity. As a physician, it is my duty to inform patients of the health risks of gay sex, and to discourage them from indulging in harmful behavior."
Same-sex attraction is a manifestation of serious emotional conflicts that are preventable and treatable. Gender Identity Disorder in children regularly leads to same-sex attractions in adolescence, and now there's even a move to remove it from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.
The media or major health organizations communicate none of the serious medical and psychiatric problems associated with homosexuality. School programs don't present this information, so children are encouraged and taught that the homosexual lifestyle is a healthy alternative to marriage.
These youngsters are not being told about the dangers of this lifestyle. I think schools and school psychologists should be legally liable because they are not providing informed consent while promoting the homosexual lifestyle.
Also, pediatricians know children raised without a father are subjected to serious psychological problems, and raising a child without a mother also predisposes the child to serious emotional and mental illnesses.
M
mc1
Guest
I read with interest many of the exchanges of viewpoints regarding this issue. First, I want to say from the beginning that I don’t believe the children should be expelled from this school. Now, having said that, I want to fill in some of the facts that have not made it in the news reports, thus causing many to judge these parishioners as intolerant, judgmental, uncompassionate and even hateful people. Folks, remember that there are two sides to every story. Below are just a few of the facts of this story:
The principal at this Catholic school (a nun), with the approval of the superintendent of schools (a priest), has agreed to allow two activist homosexual men who have adopted children to enroll their children in, and maintain a high profile of visibility at the school.
This action is coupled by the fact that, since February 2000, when the bishop of this diocese sent his controversial memo to all priests in this diocese in support of legalizing domestic partnerships, church teaching regarding God’s plan for the family has been silenced here in this county.
A growing number of parishioners at this parish have asked the pastor and the principal to at least, 1) develop a parental moral covenant that all parents should sign agreeing to uphold and support all of the teachings of the Catholic Church as a condition of their child’s enrollment, or, 2) present the Church teaching on the issue to students and parents alike, especially in view of the important document released by the Holy Father last year considering domestic partnerships and the new phenomenon of homosexuals adopting children.
The principal and the pastor have refused both requests, and, instead, one of the homosexual caregivers has now been made a teacher’s aid for his child’s kindergarten class, having been selected over several mothers who had volunteered for the position.
Additionally, it is reported that one of the fathers has been appointed as the manager of the parish website. Moreover, the caregivers of these children are listed in the school directory as the “father” and “father” of the children.
All this has occurred in spite of the fact that these two men belong to an activist homosexual organization called “Family Pride” which has publicly condemned Catholic Church teaching on domestic partners and their adoption of children. One of these caregivers was interviewed in January 2004 for the New York Times newspaper regarding his daily activities as an active homosexual father of adopted children.
I end this posting (my first,so far) by informing those who are not aware, that all this is taking place in Southern California…the home of the the blasphemous and heretical Annual Religious Education Congress.
The parents and parishioners protesting are good Catholic folks who are saddened and very much frustrated at the many abuses running rampant in their diocese. One last note: I do not have anything to do with the school, parish or group involved in this protest. I am just one Catholic in the sidelines that believe if one calls himself a Catholic, one MUST abide by our Catholic faith’s teachings, be humble and be obedient to the Magisterium.
The principal at this Catholic school (a nun), with the approval of the superintendent of schools (a priest), has agreed to allow two activist homosexual men who have adopted children to enroll their children in, and maintain a high profile of visibility at the school.
This action is coupled by the fact that, since February 2000, when the bishop of this diocese sent his controversial memo to all priests in this diocese in support of legalizing domestic partnerships, church teaching regarding God’s plan for the family has been silenced here in this county.
A growing number of parishioners at this parish have asked the pastor and the principal to at least, 1) develop a parental moral covenant that all parents should sign agreeing to uphold and support all of the teachings of the Catholic Church as a condition of their child’s enrollment, or, 2) present the Church teaching on the issue to students and parents alike, especially in view of the important document released by the Holy Father last year considering domestic partnerships and the new phenomenon of homosexuals adopting children.
The principal and the pastor have refused both requests, and, instead, one of the homosexual caregivers has now been made a teacher’s aid for his child’s kindergarten class, having been selected over several mothers who had volunteered for the position.
Additionally, it is reported that one of the fathers has been appointed as the manager of the parish website. Moreover, the caregivers of these children are listed in the school directory as the “father” and “father” of the children.
All this has occurred in spite of the fact that these two men belong to an activist homosexual organization called “Family Pride” which has publicly condemned Catholic Church teaching on domestic partners and their adoption of children. One of these caregivers was interviewed in January 2004 for the New York Times newspaper regarding his daily activities as an active homosexual father of adopted children.
I end this posting (my first,so far) by informing those who are not aware, that all this is taking place in Southern California…the home of the the blasphemous and heretical Annual Religious Education Congress.
The parents and parishioners protesting are good Catholic folks who are saddened and very much frustrated at the many abuses running rampant in their diocese. One last note: I do not have anything to do with the school, parish or group involved in this protest. I am just one Catholic in the sidelines that believe if one calls himself a Catholic, one MUST abide by our Catholic faith’s teachings, be humble and be obedient to the Magisterium.
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
So the gay parents are USING the children to further their agenda!
They are Using the children to undermine the teachings of the Church:banghead: So much for certain arguments made earlier about what constitutes a good family environment
Who loses,those kids and another assault on Holy Mother Church.
S
StJeanneDArc
Guest
Thank you so much for this update. This perfectly demonstrates the fears that I raised in some of my earlier postings. I would be rightly and justly inscensed if one of these men were the teacher’s aide in my child’s kindergarten class. If I were a parent at that school my children would be out of there in a heartbeat. I’m going to add an extra prayer tonight thanking God that I live in Texas where home-schooling is possible and my parish is orthodox.
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Fitz
Guest
The children should be allowed in if the parents abide by the school rules. If they are doing this for their own agenda then they should be ashamed. Children should not be put in that type of scene. I can’t imagine why they want a strict Catholic Education for the children when they are not following a strict Catholic path. However, they might be genuinely thinking that it is the best school for the children. I know some Jewish people that have their children at my son’s Catholic High School. They want to avoid the public school system. Catholic school have always used some spots for people of other faiths.
I think the parents that are complaining must have an agenda too. At the kindergarten level, just what do they think will be the problem? Sometimes people take themselves way too seriously.
I think the parents that are complaining must have an agenda too. At the kindergarten level, just what do they think will be the problem? Sometimes people take themselves way too seriously.
S
StJeanneDArc
Guest
I would guess that one item on the complaining parents’ agenda is protecting their children. Imagine that. You may call it taking themselves too seriously. I call it taking parenting seriously.
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Fitz,Hello
Did you read the clarification statement?It is about three posts back.God Bless
L
Lisa_N
Guest
No kidding, especially the part about one of the homosexuals become in a teacher’s aid in the kindergarten class. Yeah right, no agenda…they invite the lion to dinner and wonder why they have teeth marks. This is so disgusting.Fitz,Hello
MC1 thank you for the inside information. I would be outraged if I were the parents.
Lisa N
- Status