Conservatives Demand Kids of Gays be Expelled

[TarAshly]

Lisa N:

TarAshley, the problem with your whole line of argument, is that with RARE exception, everyone on this board has expressed compassion for homosexuals. They have not expressed a desire to hunt them down and persecute them. Further very little of that kind of activity happens anywhere in this country. You’ve made all sorts of outrageous claims about persecution of homosexuals, yet when people point out time and time again, that the majority of us “love the sinner hate the sin” you interpret objecting to homosexual activities or special rights as a desire to eradicate all homosexuals from the face of the earth.

Those of us who may love individuals who are homosexual but who do not think homosexuals should be “married” or should procure and raise children are not the same as someone who wants every homosexual strung up by his/her thumbs if indeed such people exist. You have yet to provide any evidence this even occurs other than in the propaganda of the homosexual activists. I think this is why it seems people are picking on you, as you don’t seem to be able to distinguish between “all or nothing.”

Fix is correct in that our society somehow pushes misplaced ‘compassion’ for those facing a very difficult challenge with affirming this choice. As I’ve said, we would never affirm other self destructive abnormal behavior as “this is the way God made me” yet somehow homosexual behavior is given a ‘pass’ even though both secular and religious sources can document the serious problems associated with homosexual activity.

Can we find some areas of agreement here?

Lisa N

Very little im afraid Lisa. i have seen it time and again. Matthew Shepard for example and the disgusting display outside his funeral and his trial. my friend who was not allowed to attend his cousins CATHOLIC wedding because he was openly homosexual. the stuff we see in the news almost weekly which you call propoganda and i call media exposure of what we dont want to see. if a straight married man with a family were beaten down there would be outrage but if it were a gay man it would be called media propoganda of the homosexual agenda. its outrageous. i dont believe in gay marriage as i have said before. i do believe they have a right to civil union and if they should be fortunate enough to have a child then God has blessed them with that gift. after all God is in control isnt he? i know what a void it can leave in a persons life to have difficulty in having children. children are a gift from God. im not saying it should become mainstream but if it happens then so be it. calling gays sick and evil and calling it a disorder is to me being uncompassionate and unkind. saying that children are more likely to be molested by a gay parent is outrageous these are amoung the disgusting stereotypes i have seen time and again on this and other threads about the gay issue. thats why i said there should be more compassionate people in the Church and in the world.

 

[fix]

TarAshly:

Very little im afraid Lisa. i have seen it time and again. Matthew Shepard for example and the disgusting display outside his funeral and his trial. my friend who was not allowed to attend his cousins CATHOLIC wedding because he was openly homosexual. the stuff we see in the news almost weekly which you call propoganda and i call media exposure of what we dont want to see. if a straight married man with a family were beaten down there would be outrage but if it were a gay man it would be called media propoganda of the homosexual agenda. its outrageous. i dont believe in gay marriage as i have said before. i do believe they have a right to civil union and if they should be fortunate enough to have a child then God has blessed them with that gift. after all God is in control isnt he? i know what a void it can leave in a persons life to have difficulty in having children. children are a gift from God. im not saying it should become mainstream but if it happens then so be it. calling gays sick and evil and calling it a disorder is to me being uncompassionate and unkind. saying that children are more likely to be molested by a gay parent is outrageous these are amoung the disgusting stereotypes i have seen time and again on this and other threads about the gay issue. thats why i said there should be more compassionate people in the Church and in the world.

Can you point to one post that called homosexuals evil? Not their acts, but them?

Same sex attraction is a mental condition. It is not uncompassionate to speak of what is authentically true. How are you helping those with SSAD by denying the truth? Is truth Jesus Christ or our feelings?

 

[TarAshly]

How about this?: Children raised by gay men are significantly more likely to be sexually abused than children raised by a heterosexual couple. Gay couples are significantly more promiscuous, thus likely exposing the children a twisted sexual morality. They are also much more likely to “divorce” than a heterosexual couple. Incidents of suicide, alcohol and drug abuse, and depression are all significantly higher among homosexuals than heterosexuals; thus, the children are much more likely to be exposed to these horrible things. Children raised by homosexuals are much more likely to experience sexual identify confusion than children raised by heterosexuals.

this is not pointing out the homosexual act but the homosexual group. thats one. i could find others if necessary.

It is NOT a mental condition, it is also not a choice its just the way they are. IMO you are born gay or you are born straight. yes outside factors can take a toll on this but it IMO and some doctors opinion is that it is a chemical imbalance, or a chromosome mixup. youve heard of people feeling like they were born the wrong sex. this is not a disorder this is something in the brain that cannot be fixed through therapy. do you think someone could “therapy” you into being gay. no of course not, and nor can these people be made straight.

 

[dumspirospero]

So God pre-disposes people to live an abominable lifestyle that will result in them living in a state of mortal sin and going to hell when they die? I dont’ buy that.

TarAshly:

How about this?: Children raised by gay men are significantly more likely to be sexually abused than children raised by a heterosexual couple. Gay couples are significantly more promiscuous, thus likely exposing the children a twisted sexual morality. They are also much more likely to “divorce” than a heterosexual couple. Incidents of suicide, alcohol and drug abuse, and depression are all significantly higher among homosexuals than heterosexuals; thus, the children are much more likely to be exposed to these horrible things. Children raised by homosexuals are much more likely to experience sexual identify confusion than children raised by heterosexuals.

this is not pointing out the homosexual act but the homosexual group. thats one. i could find others if necessary.

It is NOT a mental condition, it is also not a choice its just the way they are. IMO you are born gay or you are born straight. yes outside factors can take a toll on this but it IMO and some doctors opinion is that it is a chemical imbalance, or a chromosome mixup. youve heard of people feeling like they were born the wrong sex. this is not a disorder this is something in the brain that cannot be fixed through therapy. do you think someone could “therapy” you into being gay. no of course not, and nor can these people be made straight.

 

[katherine2]

TarAshly:

Very little im afraid Lisa. i have seen it time and again. Matthew Shepard for example and the disgusting display outside his funeral and his trial. my friend who was not allowed to attend his cousins CATHOLIC wedding because he was openly homosexual.

That is a violation of canon law, but God knows the hate promoters suddenly turn into ‘caferteria catholics’ when it is their ox being gored.

 

[TarAshly]

dumspirospero:

So God pre-disposes people to live an abominable lifestyle that will result in them living in a state of mortal sin and going to hell when they die? I dont’ buy that.

i dont buy that they are going to hell when they die.

 

[Lisa_N]

TarAshley you consistently mistake your opinion for authority. You apparently know some nice, stable homosexuals who would seem to be good parents. So your anecdotal evidence overrides a multitude of factual information that provides a different story.

Thus anyone who points out the NUMEROUS studies that demonstrate that homosexuality is associated with other behavior issues or deviant behaviors is cruel and uncompassionate by you. You ignore the multitude of evidence that children should be raised by two stable, married people of opposite sex. You ignore the multitude of evidence that depriving a child of a father or a mother is cruel and leads to a myriad of problems (teen pregnancy, substance abuse, dropping out of school, encounters with the juvenile justice system). You ignore studies that consistently demonstrate that pedophiles are far more prevalent among the homosexual community than in the heterosexual community. Good grief look at what homosexuals have done to destroy the Church. How can you ignore all of this evidence because you know two nice homosexuals? I KNOW many nice homosexuals. That doesn’t mean I live in a fog of denial.

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions. You have the right to express your opinion but please characterize it as such. There is no evidence of a ‘gay gene.’ There is plenty of evidence that homosexuals are promiscuous, even those in stable relationships and believe me, not only have I seen the studies, I’ve seen it in real life. There is plenty of evidence that homosexuals have other associated behavioral problems including mental illness, substance abuse and suicide.

I am utterly dismayed at your attitude that "children are a gift of God and thus ANY method of procurement is appropriate. So you equate the right to this ‘gift of God’ with my animal breeding program? Homosexuals by definition cannot conceive a child together. So they should have the right to round up a child anyway possible? By paying for “rentawomb” if males (This does happen) or by using the old sperm donor method if female. Sorry but this sounds way too much like breeding livestock, not accepting a gift of God.

Oh and BTW the whole Mathew Shepherd saga has been dismantled. Sure there are occasional hateful people who, like the Ku Klux Klan, express their hatred with violence. However, it is the exception, not the rule.

Lisa N

 

[dumspirospero]

So I guess the Encyclical of TarAshly is more authoritative than that of the Catholic Church…because I sure remember during my Catechesis it was taught to me that if one dies unrepentent in a state of mortal sin…then they don’t go to Heaven when they die…and that isn’t just for homosexuality but for all mortal sins…but homosexuality is one of the worst. Maybe you should lecture JPII since you obviously know more than him on the subject.

TarAshly:

i dont buy that they are going to hell when they die.

 

[StJeanneDArc]

TarAshly:

Very little im afraid Lisa. i have seen it time and again. Matthew Shepard for example and the disgusting display outside his funeral and his trial. my friend who was not allowed to attend his cousins CATHOLIC wedding because he was openly homosexual. the stuff we see in the news almost weekly which you call propoganda and i call media exposure of what we dont want to see. if a straight married man with a family were beaten down there would be outrage but if it were a gay man it would be called media propoganda of the homosexual agenda. its outrageous. i dont believe in gay marriage as i have said before. i do believe they have a right to civil union and if they should be fortunate enough to have a child then God has blessed them with that gift. after all God is in control isnt he? i know what a void it can leave in a persons life to have difficulty in having children. children are a gift from God. im not saying it should become mainstream but if it happens then so be it. calling gays sick and evil and calling it a disorder is to me being uncompassionate and unkind. saying that children are more likely to be molested by a gay parent is outrageous these are amoung the disgusting stereotypes i have seen time and again on this and other threads about the gay issue. thats why i said there should be more compassionate people in the Church and in the world.

Tarashley, I’m not going to do a detailed rebuttal of this post. I am going to respectfully advise you to do 2 things:

1. Read the catechism on the subject of homosexual acts, and
2. Go talk to a good orthodox priest about this subject and your difficulties in accepting this teaching.

I mentioned in a previous post that Christ doesn’t require us to understand his teachings, merely to accept and assent to them. It seems to me that you may not understand the difference between these two things. I also understand how hard it is to accept that someone you like or love is living in mortal sin. Believe me, I have a sister who is completely away from the sacraments and hasn’t lived a model life, and it pains me to see her continue as though what she does is perfectly acceptable.

God bless you and I’ll pray for you and your family.

 

[dumspirospero]

Civil Unions are just as big of a threat on the sacrament of marriage as Gay Marriage itself…you need to consult with a Priest.

TarAshly:

i dont believe in gay marriage as i have said before. i do believe they have a right to civil union and if they should be fortunate enough to have a child then God has blessed them with that gift.

 

[TarAshly]

Lisa N:

TarAshley you consistently mistake your opinion for authority. You apparently know some nice, stable homosexuals who would seem to be good parents. So your anecdotal evidence overrides a multitude of factual information that provides a different story.

Thus anyone who points out the NUMEROUS studies that demonstrate that homosexuality is associated with other behavior issues or deviant behaviors is cruel and uncompassionate by you. You ignore the multitude of evidence that children should be raised by two stable, married people of opposite sex. You ignore the multitude of evidence that depriving a child of a father or a mother is cruel and leads to a myriad of problems (teen pregnancy, substance abuse, dropping out of school, encounters with the juvenile justice system). You ignore studies that consistently demonstrate that pedophiles are far more prevalent among the homosexual community than in the heterosexual community. Good grief look at what homosexuals have done to destroy the Church. How can you ignore all of this evidence because you know two nice homosexuals? I KNOW many nice homosexuals. That doesn’t mean I live in a fog of denial.

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions. You have the right to express your opinion but please characterize it as such. There is no evidence of a ‘gay gene.’ There is plenty of evidence that homosexuals are promiscuous, even those in stable relationships and believe me, not only have I seen the studies, I’ve seen it in real life. There is plenty of evidence that homosexuals have other associated behavioral problems including mental illness, substance abuse and suicide.

I am utterly dismayed at your attitude that "children are a gift of God and thus ANY method of procurement is appropriate. So you equate the right to this ‘gift of God’ with my animal breeding program? Homosexuals by definition cannot conceive a child together. So they should have the right to round up a child anyway possible? By paying for “rentawomb” if males (This does happen) or by using the old sperm donor method if female. Sorry but this sounds way too much like breeding livestock, not accepting a gift of God.

Oh and BTW the whole Mathew Shepherd saga has been dismantled. Sure there are occasional hateful people who, like the Ku Klux Klan, express their hatred with violence. However, it is the exception, not the rule.

Lisa N

im sorry for your ignorance and lack of compassion for the homosexual community. i myself am having a difficult time concieving. so does this mean i am unworthy of a child? by your reasoning it does and that is IN MY OPINION incorrect.

 

[Lance]

TarAshly refuses to see that she/he is not following the Church. She/he is under the impression that they have the right to pick and choose which of the teachings of the Church to follow and which to reject. I truely believe her/him to be a good but misguided person. There is none so blind as he who will no see. We should all pray the TarAshly’s eyes are opened and begins to really follow the Church.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

TarAshly:

im sorry for your ignorance and lack of compassion for the homosexual community. i myself am having a difficult time concieving. so does this mean i am unworthy of a child? by your reasoning it does and that is IN MY OPINION incorrect.

On behalf of LisaN I would like to ask you a question.Does statement am I unworhty to have a child, say anything about a child being worthy to have a mom and a dad?My best friend is homosexual but is living a chaste life, and he also has said a child growing up with a parent or parents active in a homosexual lifestyle is disasterous. How could he say that because he has been in that to the point of being suicidal.He has been chaste for years with Gods Grace.I have another freind who’s dad died of aids, he was bisexual.He seduced one of his highschool freinds he would purposly walk around naked when his freinds came over and he molested a co-workers 10 year old son.Do you think my freind deserved that?God Bless

 

[TarAshly]

like i said earlier i appreciate the prayers. i will pray for yall to have a more compassionate heart for your fellow man.

 

[cainem]

ignorance? lack of compassion? i know many people who are gay through my second job most of them are nice people but that does not stop homosexual sex acts from being evil or immoral, in fact some of them are out and out sexual predators, my second job is working in a nightclub you soon get to know your regulars there is a wee competition going on with the gay scene at the moment,get any young man drunk (not so drunk i can ask them to leave) then take young inexperienced non gay lad away for sex,the one with the most straight conquests at the end of the week is the winner, sickor what? and even sicker if i intervene in ‘2 consenting adults’ i get charged with gay discrimination. the church is correct in her teachings

 

[Brad]

TarAshly:

im sorry but i have to disagree. you are one of the more cool headed people, the type i enjoy debating just so you know that. but i have to disagree. i dont think the pope would throw me out on my rear because i disagreed with a few things the vatican said. i dont disagree with them entirely. i DO believe homosexuality is morally wrong, i however DISAGREE that gays should be mistreated and outcast by society when there are loving kind caring giving gay couples in the world. some of which i have had the distinct pleasure of knowing. i dont agree that they should be allowed to have a marriage that is recognized outside of a civil union. my beliefs are somewhat scattered i understand, however they are just that. MY beliefs. i would never be so arogant as to assume i know more than blessed mother church, however please keep in mind that i have only been a catholic for a few years and was raised to be open minded and a free thinker. old habits die hard.

I understand. Many of us were raised with very poor catechesis - be thankful you were spared poor formation in your early years. I’m happy that you are Catholic and it seems you are on your way. Pretty much all you said above, I think the Church would adamently agree with, aside from the unions - they recently put out a document that said any formal recognition of such unions is not such a good thing. If you’d like to read up on it, I can give you the document link.

The Church really doesn’t teach any of this to control people or to be on a power trip. She really is out for proclaiming the truth of the Gospel - She does not want to be abused or criticized as old-fashioned or not understanding - but She knows it will happen because it happened to Jesus. Please have some patience as you grow in your understanding of the “whys” of some of these teachings. I know it can be difficult in light of friendships and people you care about - you really want them to be happy - it’s just a matter of how we help them achieve those ends - only in understanding and living the Gospel will they be truly happy.

 

[TarAshly]

Brad i would like to read that thank you!

i was raised Southern Baptist in the south and i turned from them because it was all fire hell and damnation, in the Catholic faith i am normally exposed to at my church, Gods love and acceptance and forgiveness is taught, compassion and tolerance is taught. and the beauty and the reverence of the faith and worship is what drew me to it. i tend to stay away from the old addige of “Catholic Guilt” i believe God wants to be loved and wants us to feel loved. the fire hell and damnation and hatred is what made me leave the faith of my upbringing and its disheartning to find so much of it here.

 

[Brad]

Norwich:

What a contentious topic. Pro gay, anti gay, children in school, children out of school, yet I wonder,… has anyone asked the chidren?

For those of you that condemn or condone out of hand I would remind you the Church condemns the sin, not the sinner. It’s worth remembering that sometimes.

I could be wrong but I don’t think a single person here has condemned a sinner on this thread. But thank you for the reminder - it is true.

 

[Brad]

TarAshly:

Brad i would like to read that thank you!

i was raised Southern Baptist in the south and i turned from them because it was all fire hell and damnation, in the Catholic faith i am normally exposed to at my church, Gods love and acceptance and forgiveness is taught, compassion and tolerance is taught. and the beauty and the reverence of the faith and worship is what drew me to it. i tend to stay away from the old addige of “Catholic Guilt” i believe God wants to be loved and wants us to feel loved. the fire hell and damnation and hatred is what made me leave the faith of my upbringing and its disheartning to find so much of it here.

I see. Hatred is never a good thing - sorry if you experience that.

Please consider that the people here just have a very different perspective. I don’t think any of them really hate - they have shown to be staunch defenders of the faith - and most if is driven by a burning desire to see the Church as the solid rock She is supposed to be.

From their perspective (and mine), we have also see the God loves us homilies and God forgives us homilies but rarely, if ever, do we hear what is right and what is wrong and that we need to truly express we are sorry in the wonderful sacrament of Confession and that we need to pray in fron of Jesus Himself in the Eucharist. The problem with this is that people get confused and eventually rationalize great and moral evils such as abortion - it gets watered down to just another social problem amongst a bunch of others. Similarly, divorce - instead of seeing the crisis that it is to children, many in the Church rationalize it from their own perspective while ignoring the child.

Many of us have deep hurts from our own past personal sins - some of which we never knew were sins or never knew the harm they did to our spirits until we were head-deep in doo-doo. We wish we had been taught solid truth (along with the teachings on love) so that we may have avoided these tragedies. So, a lot of the passion on here comes from people that care passionately for the well-being of others and their souls - although I understand it is hard to see that from your perspective sometimes.

Here is the link to the document - reflect on it if you can - read it in pieces, pray about it - there is great love for the homosexual person in the document, just as the Church and Jesus love all of us sinners - but the Church would never tell us or homosexuals that any sin is ok - She wants to see us in Heaven for all eternity.

Per the teaching of the Church, a doctrinal document on faith or morals is not something we can really teach or act in opposition to. We are free to not understand it and even have a personal, quiet disgruntledness - but we should always pray and get information to gain that understanding so that we are completely comfortable with the Body of Christ - the Church.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[TarAshly]

Thank you brad for your kind and generous response. i will read the link and meditate and pray on it as you have suggested. i look forward to many more discussions with people such as yourself. what a joy to be able to exchange thoughts and ideas and opinions with people such as yourself.

Tara