Contraception

[st_felicity]

1ke:

You posted this to the wrong person, I think you meant it for AmberDale. However, I will address the part that is directed at me regarding my comments on Depo.

My comments were to AmberDale–but they were in reference to your comments.

I am not saying I agree with their method of treatment. But, it is a legitimate one.

And, the Church recognizes this and does not prevent a person from taking this medication even if it has a contraceptive effect as the unintended consequence. Please see Humanae Vitae for reference.

I also recognize this–but then a person should abstain so as not to have the unintended, but foreseen possibility, of abortion.

My point was that it is my understanding that Depo is a “convenience” method of the hormone delivery and I see no distinction between that and any other method that is also abortofacient.

However, you cannot tell someone that this treatment is immoral or not allowed by the church if it is prescribed by a doctor for something other than contraception because that is clearly not true.

Where did I say that? Are you referring to, *“Your immortal soul is more important than THIS life–and NOT having sex WON’T kill anyone.”? *I do believe that splitting hairs on moral issues is EXTREMELY dangerous, hence the statement. I did not say anything–as you say–untrue.

 

[KCT]

Pious Redeemer:

And what about the usage of condoms in relation to aids prevention, especially in poor countries like some Asian and African nations?

No matter what nation I live in, I want to know my spouse loves me enough to protect me 100% of the time. Condoms can’t do that; abstinence can.

So we should love people enough to protect them just some of the time and put them at risk the rest of the time? Doesn’t sound like love to me.

—KCT

 

[jlac001]

NFP is 99% effective the same as or better than any other type of contraceptive, wouldn’t you rather do it naturally then rely on a pill or something that can do harm to your body. This is what the church teaches no if’s or but’s about it. I just can’t believe all the question’s come up about what if this or what if that. There’s no what’s about it the church says any form of birth control is wrong even NFP if used for the wrong reason. This is not just something the church decided on it’s in the bible and will never change.

My wife and I have 7 children all have been very difficult for my wife, just about everything that can go wrong has but you just have to have faith in God. We’re both still young and the possiblity for more is great but we just go on and trust that what ever happens God will help us handle it.

 

[Harriet]

This whole contraception argument, I think it’s a joke. Why is it that women are having to listen to this from a Church that is run solely by men?
How can the Church say it is pro-life, that it is anti-abortion when it also bans contraception, if everyone used contraception there would be less abortions because the embryo wouldn’t be there in the first place. Yes I know not all contraceptive is effective but 98% or so of the time it is. It’s only 70% with NFP. I think it should be a womans right to decide whether she wants to get pregnant or not, she should be able to have a say in what goes on inside her own body.
Also, in the world today, millions of people have aids, they die everyday, every second in their thousands. I don’t care what anyone says, the Aids crisis is serious and I don’t think it is right to sit here and argue so casually about it when people are dying and suffering. You can preach about abstinance all you want, you can sit in your little fairy world and naively believe that people will just stop having sex. Hello! They won’t, people will not just stop having sex. That’s why we should promote contraception and abstinance, do anything and all we can to stop this horrible disease from spreading and hurting more people.

 

[jlac001]

harriet,

We are not animals we can control our desires. If people were living morally we wouldn’t have STD’s. If a women doesn’t want to get pregnant than don’t have sex. If a man doesn’t want to support a child don’t have sex. If your married and need to space your children apart then have sex during the times the women cannot get pregnant.
That simple it’s called self control.

 

[Harriet]

I didn’t say that we cannot control our own desires, I said that telling people to practise abstinance isn’t going to stop them having sex because it isn’t.

 

[felra]

Harriet:

This whole contraception argument, I think it’s a joke. Why is it that women are having to listen to this from a Church that is run solely by men?
How can the Church say it is pro-life, that it is anti-abortion when it also bans contraception, if everyone used contraception there would be less abortions because the embryo wouldn’t be there in the first place. Yes I know not all contraceptive is effective but 98% or so of the time it is. It’s only 70% with NFP. I think it should be a womans right to decide whether she wants to get pregnant or not, she should be able to have a say in what goes on inside her own body.
Also, in the world today, millions of people have aids, they die everyday, every second in their thousands. I don’t care what anyone says, the Aids crisis is serious and I don’t think it is right to sit here and argue so casually about it when people are dying and suffering. You can preach about abstinance all you want, you can sit in your little fairy world and naively believe that people will just stop having sex. Hello! They won’t, people will not just stop having sex. That’s why we should promote contraception and abstinance, do anything and all we can to stop this horrible disease from spreading and hurting more people.

Let me guess, you have a problem with authority in general, and specifically with men in positions of authority saying no to what you want? Have you considered that your prescription for the widespread use of contraception has moral implications for the user and those who condone and promote their use?

 

[KittyKat]

If there is a good reason for pill usage then it can be great. If my mom had not used the pill for a while I would not be here. It was the only thing that controlled her bleeding so that doctors didn’t force her into an emergency hysterectomy. But…

I wouldn’t want to do it to prevent pregnancy, I did for a while and I had headaches and everything. And I wouldn’t have a little boy who very happily spends all day bouncing on my bladder, it is a lot easier to decide if you want to take a “risk” when you are looking at that chart. And my husband thinks it is so interesting watching the different temp patterns that it is really cool. It is great knowing what is happenning and being able to talk together about what is going on.

Kat

 

[NFPfamily]

Harriet:

This whole contraception argument, I think it’s a joke. Why is it that women are having to listen to this from a Church that is run solely by men?
How can the Church say it is pro-life, that it is anti-abortion when it also bans contraception, if everyone used contraception there would be less abortions because the embryo wouldn’t be there in the first place. Yes I know not all contraceptive is effective but 98% or so of the time it is. It’s only 70% with NFP. I think it should be a womans right to decide whether she wants to get pregnant or not, she should be able to have a say in what goes on inside her own body.
Also, in the world today, millions of people have aids, they die everyday, every second in their thousands. I don’t care what anyone says, the Aids crisis is serious and I don’t think it is right to sit here and argue so casually about it when people are dying and suffering. You can preach about abstinance all you want, you can sit in your little fairy world and naively believe that people will just stop having sex. Hello! They won’t, people will not just stop having sex. That’s why we should promote contraception and abstinance, do anything and all we can to stop this horrible disease from spreading and hurting more people.

Dear Harriet, you seemed a bit angry in your post. It seems that you are steadfast in your beliefs, but please respect ours. Your information about NFP is stereotypically misinformed. The sympto-thermal method of NFP has a scientifically proven 99% + effectiveness rate, equal to or better than the error rate of ABC. ABC also has SOOOO many side effects that lead to serious health problems. As far as your view that a woman should decide whether or not to have children, you are sadly leaving God out of the picture. What would have happened if our Blessed Mother decided she didn’t want to be pregnant, especially considering the circumstances she faced. Finally, your point about Africa; you can’t commit a sin for the benefit of good. People are capable of not having sex, and choosing to do so when the risk is dying is a choice. It is such a tragic situation and we should all pray for people suffering through it.

I strongly suggest you do some open minded research about NFP and I think you’ll be surprised to see it’s not a terrible thing. It is such a blessing to our marriage and family! God bless you!

 

[NFPfamily]

I vote NFP for me!

 

[CanonAlberic]

I didn’t vote, since I didn’t see my situation. I’m single and I insist on contraception in one form or another, since abortion is NOT an option to me. I know, I’m bad and will probably fry in the afterlife, but I’ll take my chances. (Okay to gang up on me now…)

Peace to all…

 

[SWTHRT]

I got married in October 2004, and me and my husband have agreed not to use artificial birth control in our marriage.

I started a NFP class in the past, but I quit due to all of the stress of planning my wedding. I’d like to sign up for it again this fall.

I’m using the little bit I learned in NFP class to know when I AM fertile so I can try to get pregnant. NFP isn’t just for those who don’t want a child – it is a great way to learn about your body and your fertility if you do want a baby.

Karen

 

[st_felicity]

CanonAlberic:

I’m single and I insist on contraception in one form or another, since abortion is NOT an option to me. I know, I’m bad and will probably fry in the afterlife, but I’ll take my chances.

This type of thinking is such a curiosity to me…I know the consequences of my “bad” actions, but I will take my chances? If you know the consequences and you choose Hell, what chance have you got?

Why bother giving a rip about abortion if you’ve already gone down that slippery slope of “well…this offense against God isn’t as offensive (in my puny human reasoning) to God as this other sin, so maybe God won’t mind as much…” Adam and Eve ate a fruit they weren’t supposed to and mankind is STILL suffering the consequences…How can one really think a serious offense against God (choosing self over God just as Adam and Eve did) without remorse could possibly give them any “chance” at all?

Lots of people think like this–would someone please explain the rationale–preferrably someone who thinks this way (though I see CanonAlberic has been suspended…) I just don’t get it…

 

[Brendan]

Harriet:

I didn’t say that we cannot control our own desires, I said that telling people to practise abstinance isn’t going to stop them having sex because it isn’t.

Harriet,

By your logic, we should recognize that some men are just going to beat their wifes and telling them to stop isn’t going to work; therefore the Church should support them using boxing gloves while doing it.

That is pretty much what you are advocating. If one is going to sin no matter what the Church teaches, they should take precautions to help prevent the graver sin of murder\abortion.

The Church is about Truth. It should not and can not teach half measures.

 

[KittyKat]

SWTHRT- good luck! I hope you have a really easy time getting pregnant.

The first month we decided that it wouldn’t be a bad thing I got pregnant. It is such a wonderful thing. After seeing so many people having so many problems getting pregnant I was amazed that I had such an easy time.

It works great for either preventing or achieving.

 

[timmyo]

nohself:

I’m actually beginning to research contraception and the effects that it has on society for my sociology class (I’m sure the LAST thing on my professor’s agenda is contraception. I’m sure his reaction will be: “Contraception?! We’re talking about social problems here!”).

I know less about the sociological ramifications of contraception than the ethical implications of it. I never had a problem with contraception until recently. I never had even considered that it might be wrong! My mother gave me a couple of condoms when I was around 15 and I thought she had done me a favor. Over the past couple months I’ve become rather fervently opposed to it and have gone on many a rant concerning it.

Now, I’m only 21 and I’m not sexually active, so I can’t begin to understand the difficulties someone experiences who is sexually active. I’m sure that someone accustomed to and perhaps addicted to sexual relations would find it extremely difficult to give up such a “wonderful” invention as birth control. It gives the sexually active person freedom, which I suppose may be a greater incentive than the pleasure itself. Nevertheless, as I see it, all are called to stop using birth control.

Within marriage the question is even more agonizing. I can’t pretend to act like I don’t wish articifical methods of birth control were morally permissible ways of controlling procreation. But unfortunately they are not. I plan on using Natural Family Planning.

Jamie

I think your research topic is a great one. Artificial birth control has affected our culture probably more than anything else over the past 40 years, but few are aware of it. With the pill, procreation was gradually removed from sex and replaced with recreation as the primary motive. We live with the ramifications of this shift to this day. The natural reality of sex, that one was likely to have a baby if they had sex, kept most people, especially women, morally in line before the invention of the pill. Once the natural realities of sex could be altered, there would be dramatic ramifications. The ramifications include dramatically increased pre marital sex with multiple partners, cohabitation before marriage, pornography, divorce, sexual obsessions, etc. Contraception also paved the way for abortion, since the pill children were now viewed as a hinderance to “freedom”, especially sexual freedom. A seemingly less sinister effect of the pill was the effect on the number of children in families. Due to the pill, which ended the baby boom in the mid 1960’s, the number of children born between 1965 and 1978 dropped dramatically. The result now is an inability of people born during those years to support the tax system and social security system in the future since there will be less people to support the aging baby boomers once they retire. In a few years, because of the lower birth rates, there will be fewer people in the prime money spending ages, 35 to 50, therefore causing a strain on the economy since there will be fewer consumers. It’s pretty mind blowing when you think about it.

 

[LionHeart1981]

Pious Redeemer:

I agree with you on this. But I’m afraid our voices are the voices of ‘rational’ western people speaking. I just feel for their many deaths…

what if a Catholic person would succumb to seduction, have sexual intercourse without being married, repents it afterwards, confesses this to a priest, does the penance the priest orders him/her to do in order to be forgiven, but still dies of aids anyway? Or if this same person would have worn a condom (or her partner), repents it afterwards, confesses this to a priest, does the penance the priest orders him/her to do in order to be forgiven, but doesn’t die of aids? Isn’t there a ‘slight’ difference, the difference between life and death?

.

We’re forgetting one thing here.

There is a consequence to every sin; falling to seduction is no excuse.

By wearing a condom, one would be attempting to avoid the consequence of that sin, and thus avoiding the inevitable.

If there is 0.01% of a consequence, then don’t engage in the sin! Simple, avoid it, carry the cross, crucifiy the flesh!

“I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service” (Rom. 12:1).

Peace,
Lionheart

 

[LionHeart1981]

mft1234:

I went to the confessional and told the priest that my wife and I use birth control because we are not financially stable enough to afford children (education, etc.) He told me not to worry about it.

During a lecture at a retreat, another priest minimized the sinfulness of masturbation.
I know the official teachings on both issues, but sometimes I’m confused about the variance among the clergy and the guidance they offer on these topics?

It is likely, that the priest is trying to comfort you, and minimize the impact of guilt and shame which is not of God!

However, sorrow is, and you should do everything you can (with prayer) to avoid occasions of Masturbation and look at NFP or other alternative to contraception!

Peace,
Lionheart

 

[LionHeart1981]

someguy:

I am 25 and have recently been married to my beautiful wife. Thing is, neither of us wish for children yet.
We are both very career driven, our lives are good at the moment and are currently planning to take time out to go travelling around Asia. We are enjoying our youth, going out, enjoying ourselves basically while we still can. A child is a blessing but it changes your life quite dramatically and neither of us feel mature enough to handle those responsibilities yet.

I know my parents used contraceptives from when the first began going out and had sex before marriage, 31 years on they are still going strong and are still very much in love. I therefore feel your theory, puzzle annie, that contraceptives cause marriage breakdown to be somewhat flawed.

The theory that contraceptives are not natural seem like a very weak argument to me, medicine is not natural, life support machines are not natural, processed food is not natural.

Also could somebody give me a direct quote from the Bible that specifically relates to contraception being wrong.

John 21:25
25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. Firstly, you need to be careful that what you say isn’t based on “sola-scriptora” and secondly, I’m not aware of any specific scripture references, but science (which is of God) and tradition has shown that contraception is wrong, I won’t point out the specifics, but it’s like, you have a car, and the car needs the key to start it, but without the key it’s dead - get the picture?

Peace,
Lionheart

 

[bluezone7]

The church’s position on contraception is correct! As for condoms and AIDs or other STDs, this has nothing to do with the Church’s position. Yes, AIDs is terrible but if people were not having sex outside the sacrament of marriage STDs would not be a problem. If people were (and they are) having sex outside of marriage, why would they be concerned about the issue of contraception. The Church and the original and more orthadox forms of non-Catholic Christianity and Judaism also oppose contraception and sex outside of marriage, so why go half way in what God has ordered you to do! People since the fall of Adam want what is easy and what feels good even though they are turning their backs on God! So why would they be worried about what offends God on one issue and not other issues! People should submit to God’s will and follow his rules.