Could The Mormon Church Be The "true Church" Of Christ

[dianaiad]

I have seen it bounced around many times on this board that LDS believe that through celestial marriage they may become gods of their own planets which they will populate with their own spirit babies which are a product of physical intercourse with one of their many wives. When I asked my mishies about this they did not deny it. Will a current LDS please make a statement on this? Is it true? Is it partly true? Please explain.

It is NOT true. Period.

Never was. Isn’t now. Never will be. The problem is that this statement is so out of whack and so frought with misinformation mixed with truth that no missionary has any business touching it.

Let’s put this very bluntly. IF our final goal is to be ‘heirs and joint-heirs’ with Christ and have all that He has, then we aren’t about to have to settle for a measly planet. For one thing, where would that planet actually BE? This universe is, well…taken. God created it. All of it is His.

So…we get something entirely ‘else.’ (I dunno, I’m going to agitate for my own universe, maybe…) What we do NOT get is a measly dumb planet to 'populate with spirit babies."

Though when you think about it, that would march more with the idea that we will NOT become ‘Gods,’ doesn’t it? After all, God DID create a universe. How could anything lesser BE 'God?"

And being handed an already created planet would be very much ‘lesser,’ would it not? I mean…one planet? One very finite planet limited in space and time?

How ‘godlike’ is THAT?

Sometimes the anti’s don’t do a whale of a lot of thinking when they do their suppositions for us, y’know?

 

[dianaiad]

You know they are going to deny it.

Well, yeah. That’s generally what one should do when a statement is untrue.

 

[MEgus]

Anyway, my point was to refute the idea that miracles were gone from the earth, something MEgus implied and many Smithians claim (and in order to back up the need for a “restoration,” reference Protestants who have made similar claims). It was also to demonstrate that by any standard used to evaluate miracles and the effects of the Sacraments, the Catholic Church compares favorably to any other. Thus it won’t work very well to claim that evidence that these gifts and occurrences happen within the LDS context are a proof that you have authority and others do not.

Arandur,

Where did I ever imply that miracles were gone from the earth? And I have never heard that implied by our Church as well. Please show me where I ever said anything as such? Or where it is a doctrine of our Church?

MEgus

 

[RebeccaJ]

The church official website doesn’t tell you what the church actually believes?

Rebecca, that’s like telling us that the Catholic catechism doesn’t teach what Catholics believe.

Exactly like that.

Yeah, there is.

And you find it on lds.org.

The websites tell you what your church teaches (now), not what people believe. It also does not tell you what your church has taught before which is where people got these beliefs to begin with.

If you can show me the equivalency of a Mormon catechism, then I’ll believe you have orthodoxy. If I can ask 12 mormons the same questions and get the same answer, then I’ll believe you have orthodoxy.

 

[Linna]

Any religion that attempts “to add” to the Bible such as the Book of Mormon is a cult. Joseph Smith is now reported in history to have not been a good man.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Arandur,

Where did I ever imply that miracles were gone from the earth? And I have never heard that implied by our Church as well. Please show me where I ever said anything as such? Or where it is a doctrine of our Church?

MEgus

Let me help you out…according to you, this is what you believe:

"That year of grace, 1820, [was] like the 1,400 years which preceded it. … It was a day of spiritual darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains. … Gifts, signs, miracles, and all the special endowments enjoyed by the saints of old were no longer the common inheritance of those in whose hearts religious zeal was planted. There were no visions, no revelations, no rending of the heavens; the Lord was not raining down righteousness upon a chosen people as He had done in days of old.

… There were no legal administrators whose acts were binding on earth and in heaven. That gospel preached by Paul, and for which Peter died, was no longer proclaimed from the pulpits of Christendom."

 

[PaulDupre]

"BILL PICK:

MEgus do you think that smith was a matyr ?

Yes

Only in Mormonism and Islam is a martyr someone who dies while killing other people.

 

[MEgus]

MEgus i did not say this . Did the Lord start his Church in 33 AD? our lord jesus christ said this do you not believe our lord as He said i will build My church

Bill, Interesting point. As soon as I catch up on all these posts, I will comment about the Lord’s Church starting with Adam, but back to your point.

Tell me, when the Lord said, I will Build, does that not mean sometime in the future?

And had he not already built his Church then? Called 12 Apostles? Baptized people into his Church? Called the 70? Sent the Apostles and the 70 out on missions to share the Gospel and Baptize and teach?

MEgus

 

[MEgus]

Since its teachings appeared over 1,800 years after the fact, appeared quite suddenly in religious “free-for-all” America, contained precepts unheard of in human history, and arrived without prophetic prediction, I must say “no”. God has always sent many prophets over many centuries rather than just one. None of His prophets have spoken in a manner which changed God in His substance. A church which claims to be a “restoration” church, following an alleged “great apostasy” but which cannot place a name, date or place on such apostasy cannot be true. No true church would continue to use the bible which was written and compiled by those in “total apostasy”. No true church could have come into being under such distinctly odd and nonbiblical circumstances, IMO.

Opinion noted, but again, just an opinion.

 

[Linna]

Doesn’t Mormonist teach that after we die we continue to live with family in Heaven and keep having children? Doesn’t it also teach we are gods and will rule other planets if we are the chosen good? Are you really** trying to defend such ridiculous notions? In my opinion this dicussion is way to rational to defend and oppose it. How can anyone believe such a thing? Mormons also opposed blacks and people who are overweight, or so the story goes.

 

[MEgus]

Eternal progression is all about the soul gaining enlightenment in a heavenly non corporal plain. Reincarnation is the soul gaining enlightenment through repeated in carnations. Mormons do it in heaven and reincarnation happens on earth through repeated incarnations of the soul. How do you fail to see the similarities???

Check your Theology, mormons believe that Jesus is not on the same spiritual level as God, the Heavenly Father. Mormons believe that Jesus came for our redemption but that His dominion was only over this earth. I have discussed this many times with my brother -in-law who is an elder in your church. Mormons believe they will be like Gods through Eternal progression.
One of the 10 Commandements says Thou shalt not have strange Gods before me.

I think you need a deeper understanding of your faith. It is polytheistic, and far removed from protestant and Catholic Christian orthodoxy!

Alanjeddy,

May I point out a difference between you and James.

I have respect for James and his questions because he actually quotes from LDS sources and asks sound questions. He does not try to put his personal influences into them, even if he does not agree with them. And he asks sincere questions. I feel he is indeed a disciple of Christ and I have great respect for him.

On the other hand, you have posted your personal beliefs and personal interpretations of what you believe we believe as if we actually believed that. Now, I believe you actually believe we believe that, but for the most part, your way off base. Mainly because you have brought in your personal opinions and prejudices.

Now, if you would take those precepts, then go search official LDS sites and find out our actual beliefs and if you have a problem with them, post that from our sites and we can discuss it further.

MEgus

 

[MEgus]

I don’t see how you can engage in apologetic debate about your faith with such a poor knowwledge of what your church really believes.

"Mormons also believe that God is evolving and gaining in knowledge and glory each day.

God Bless you, God love you and goodbye.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Again, another of those absolutely false statements. Do you think that bearing false witness will have any consequences when the time comes for you to stand before God to be judged?

MEgus

 

[alanjeddy]

" And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:18-20

In this passage St Peter is promised primacy over the whole church, a primacy which Jesus will confer on him after His resurection, as we learn in the gospel of St John, Jn21:15-18. This supreme authority is given to Peter for the benefit of the church. Because the church has to last until the end of time, this authority will be passed on to Peter’s successors down through salvation history. The Bishop of Rome, the Pope, is the successor of Peter.

 

[alanjeddy]

MEgus:
"Mormons also believe that God is evolving and gaining in knowledge and glory each day.

God Bless you, God love you and goodbye.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Again, another of those absolutely false statements. Do you think that bearing false witness will have any consequences when the time comes for you to stand before God to be judged?

MEgus

“Judge not for as you judge so will you be judged”.

 

[alanjeddy]

Any mormons out there who would like to enter into an apologetic exchange on Jesus’ Bread of life discourse, John6?

 

[MEgus]

But how are you sure that it is God telling you, and how can you be sure that you’re interpreting Him correctly? The mass proliferation of sects and contradictory teachings has occurred because so many people believed that God was telling them something.

I have gotten into this matter with Mormons many times. Most seem to believe that they can trust their own interpretation of spiritual experiences. They typically have a lot of trouble understanding that televangelists play off the same notions, and that every belief system that every man founded and led people astray with began with similar notions. It is a false formula to rely on one’s own interpretations of what one thinks God is saying to them, for it only creates confusion; it is essentially self-justification and belief in one’s own prideful foolishness.

Fortunately, God is much wiser than us and gave us many means by which to test our interpretations so that we could conform our will to His. The primary ones are the Church (Apostolic Authority, Tradition, Scripture); natural law (Creation), and history (of which God is the Author). This is why Jesus instituted the Catholic Church and solidly grounded it in all of these primary, external means of God’s Revelation to man. With these tools, we can know for certain whether our personal interpretation of how the Spirit speaks to us is correct. It requires our humility to accept that we may be wrong so that we may grow in insight and receptivity to the Spirit’s true meaning.

That isn’t how the Bible tells us to obtain the truth of all things.

It wasn’t you who pointed to miracles in the LDS church or said that such gifts had ceased prior to the restoration. It was MEgus,

Please show me where I ever said any such thing?

MEgus

 

[alanjeddy]

" And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:18-20

In this passage St Peter is promised primacy over the whole church, a primacy which Jesus will confer on him after His resurection, as we learn in the gospel of St John, Jn21:15-18. This supreme authority is given to Peter for the benefit of the church. Because the church has to last until the end of time, this authority will be passed on to Peter’s successors down through salvation history. The Bishop of Rome, the Pope, is the successor of Peter.

One true Catholic and Apostolic church

 

[truthsilence]

Perhaps LDS “lay” ministry is the reason that instead of worship and sound teaching, you’ll hear things in their meetings like: ‘God the Father had sexual intercourse with Mary to conceive our Lord Jesus’, (oh yes, indeed I did!) or about how ‘God is an Exalted man’, to speculation about how righteous we were (or not) in the so-called “pre-existence” and other such nonsense. Did you know according to the LDS, our Lord Jesus’ ‘spirit’ was born of a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother just like the rest of us?

For more examples of such sound teachings; this one is on “our Heavenly Mother”:

lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/godhead/heavenly_mother.html

I don’t believe there are too many LDS who haven’t suffered through similar nonsense on Sunday’s. Except maybe Diana.

And these are the things which grieved my spirit when I was LDS.

 

[MEgus]

well lets start with the trinity

I’d be happy too Bill, but that is not the topic of this thread.

How about if you start another about “What do Mormon’s think about the Trinity” and we’ll discuss it there.

MEgus

 

[alanjeddy]

Alanjeddy,

May I point out a difference between you and James.

I have respect for James and his questions because he actually quotes from LDS sources and asks sound questions. He does not try to put his personal influences into them, even if he does not agree with them. And he asks sincere questions. I feel he is indeed a disciple of Christ and I have great respect for him.

On the other hand, you have posted your personal beliefs and personal interpretations of what you believe we believe as if we actually believed that. Now, I believe you actually believe we believe that, but for the most part, your way off base. Mainly because you have brought in your personal opinions and prejudices.

Now, if you would take those precepts, then go search official LDS sites and find out our actual beliefs and if you have a problem with them, post that from our sites and we can discuss it further.

MEgus

Megus it is sad how you are living in a fantasy world. In addition to my wife who was a mormon and my brother in law I have mormons who have corroberated what I am telling you. It is not my personal interpretation. I am actually getting bored with this thread.