Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

[josie_L]

Count me in as a Russian Fifth Columnist!

But wait, are Poles not the faithful servants of the western liberators? How can a Pole be sympathetic to Russia?
First, I must clarify, that despite my opinions and knowledge of the Russian language and culture, I have no concrete connexions to Russia, be it through family, significant acquaintances, or employment.

However, as a Pole, and more broadly a Pole who is unafraid of acknowledging his Slavic blood, Russia represents the last hope for independence from the west. When I was younger, I erroneously believed that Poland was independent. That all changed after 2003-4, when everything was literally being transformed before my very eyes (infrastructure, cars, daily articles, etc.), into the vision dictated by the European Union.

Poland is a small country. Many Poles, either through upbringing or other reasons do not seem to accept this. They are stuck with a subconscious attachment to a pre-Partition notion of Poland as a significant European power. Thus, they blindly follow a culturally and of course politically contrarian route against Russia. Political opposition to the misdeeds of the past century are quite appropriate, but a zero-sum mentality hardly improves relations, and really is a manifestation of an unfortunate short-sidedness. What I am getting at is that Poland, for better or for worse, has an extensive shared (common) history with Russia. Thus, numerous commonalities do exist, regardless of cause.

A good analogy for the Polish-Russian relationship would be two feuding neighbours, wronged by each other in many ways (one perhaps bigger and more culpable), but who nevertheless must unite to face a land developer whose project would end not only the feud, but also that over which the feud began.

Thus, Poland has a choice of alignment to a large power. One option is the historically foreign, as well as culturally destructive, anti-religious west. The other choice is for Poland to align with Russia, which would reflect the cultural ties, and would perhaps spare Poland from the west’s constant attempts at global homogenisation (consumerism, saecularism).

Lastly, I cannot believe that it was for the results following the changes in 1999-2003 that Poland produced its great martyrs and a saintly pope.

Forgive the ramble, but if a non-western, illiberal opinion already constitutes a heresy, I wish to be declared the foremost among heretics.

I assume yours is not the prevailing opinion in Poland.

 

[pepipop]

And that’s wrong, however, there are Russian troops in the Eastern Ukraine, i.e., this is not a civil war, but a foreign invasion.

p.s. If you want the war to end than consider this: get the Russian troops/rebels out of the UKRAINE.

If there were Russian troops in Ukraine the world would definitely know about it. through the MSM. Only last month Ukrainian diplomats passed photos of Russian military from 6 years previously to pass of, as Russian military in E Ukraine that were published in US press. There is no proof/evidence.

Also Ukrainian army commanders have stated they are NOT fighting the Russian army.

*In an interview with Ukrainian Espesso TV, Ukrainian military expert Major Aleksander Taran confirmed what General Muzenko head of the Ukrainian Armed Forces had to say on the subject.

During a briefing with General Muzenko he announced that “To date, we have only the involvement of some members of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and Russian citizens that are part of illegal armed groups involved in the fighting. We are not fighting with the regular Russian Army. We have enough forces and means in order to inflict a final defeat even with illegal armed formation present. “- he said.

November 6th in an interview with Gromadske.TV, Markian Lubkivsky, the adviser to the head of the SBU (the Ukrainian version of the CIA) stated there are NO RUSSIAN TROOPS ON UKRANIAN SOIL! This unexpected announcement came as he fumbled with reporters’ questions on the subject. According to his statement, he said the SBU confirmed that there were some 5000 Russian nationals [volunteers], but no Russian soldiers in Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples Republics.*

globalresearch.ca/ukraine-military-high-command-confirms-no-russian-invasion-or-regular-troops-presence-of-nato-forces-in-donbass/5431369

 

[josie_L]

If there were Russian troops in Ukraine the world would definitely know about it. through the MSM. Only last month Ukrainian diplomats passed photos of Russian military from 6 years previously to pass of, as Russian military in E Ukraine that were published in US press. There is no proof/evidence.

Yes, Pepipop, there is proof, it’s been provided ad nauseam on these threads (I just posted a link showing a Russian soldier with insignia in Donetsk watching while POWs were digging out bodies of their fallen comrades).

Even Putin and Russian rebel leaders have admitted that Russian troops were present in Crimea prior to the ousting of Yanukovych, and that it was they who ousted said Crimean government (replacing it with people partial to Russia) and organized said “referendum”.

Putin lied about this initially, but he came out with the truth eventually (after Crimea was annexed, of course).

p.s. And please don’t bother using Global Research, it is an extremely left media outlet.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I simply made a statement that there is such a thing going on, on the Internet.

Uh…not exactly.
Here is what you wrote earlier, on this thread and a thread in ‘Bug reports’:

I’m not sure why but my account has been blocked twice since last week, it’s like I’m banned but temporarily.

p.s. A forum message appears stating that I can no longer access CAF, but specifies no reason, and that the ban will never be lifted.** It always appears after I’ve posted on the Ukraine threads**.

It started as of last week, i.e., I get forum (CAF) messages after I post on the Ukraine threads in the world news, wherein my account has been blocked, specifying no reasons as to why, and mentioning that the ban will never lift. My account will then be blocked for a certain amount of time, but then I have access to it again. It must be a bug, so I’m hoping that someone at CAF can help me

Looks like the mod answered you question, but I just wanted to set the record straight. YOU are the only one I can see this has happened to.
Now, I believe YOU said you wanted to return to the topic of the OP…
And after that, quite frankly, I don’t blame you…

 

[josie_L]

And yet the Russians are doing the same, i.e., no one seems interested in the fact that Russian troops are in the Ukraine helping neo-Nazis/fascists (some of whom are rebels and/or Russian) from usurping Ukrainian territory.

p.s. Do you think that I’m somehow going to ignore this GLARING fact???

 

[josie_L]

Uh…not exactly.
Here is what you wrote earlier, on this thread and a thread in ‘Bug reports’:

Looks like the mod answered you question, but I just wanted to set the record straight.
Now, I believe YOU said you wanted to return to the topic of the OP…
And after that, quite frankly, I don’t blame you…

Yes, it was information I thought would be pertinent to the problem I had.

 

[Darryl1958]

And yet the Russians are doing the same, i.e., no one seems interested in the fact that Russian troops are in the Ukraine helping neo-Nazis/fascists (some of whom are rebels and/or Russian) from usurping Ukrainian territory.

p.s. Do you think that I’m somehow going to ignore this GLARING fact???

The elephant in the room being ignored is that the UK or US or any of the ‘bad guys’ have zero chance of taking over the Ukraine or Georgia or Crimea.
The same cannot be said about Russia, which is doing exactly that.

The same people who protest vigorously against the imperialism and colonialism of the English and Scots in Ireland are very fine with the Russians being imperialists in the Ukraine and doing the exact same thing.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Having a Russian wife changes everything apparently.

Who’s that then?

 

[josie_L]

They weren’t just present they were ACTIVE in dissembling the Crimean government, preventing Ukrainian military soldiers from leaving their base, organizing the annexation, intimidating pro-Ukrainian Crimeans . . . etc.

 

[pepipop]

They weren’t just present they were ACTIVE in dissembling the Crimean government, preventing Ukrainian military soldiers from leaving their base, organizing the annexation, intimidating pro-Ukrainian Crimeans . . . etc.

No that was carried out by residents in Crimea and yes a referendum was organised

• I live in Krimu, Sevastopol to be exact. On 24 February 2014, 09:00, live interview on Channel 5 in Kiev, owned by Poroshenko, Oleg Tyagnibok clearly stated, heard live, ‘I will bring my 2500 men to Krimea and put every Russian there to the knife’. Tyagnibok is the leader of Svoboda Party and a sitting deputat at the time in Ukraine Rada. Yarush, the leader of Right Sector Party and now a sitting deputat in Ukraine Rada, clearly stated ‘I will bring my 2500 men, to Sevastopol, kill every Russian there and burn that city to the ground.’

We took them seriously and the barricades went up the next night. The two roads coming in to Krim from Kherson Oblast, the 5 roads coming in to Sevastopol, and the three roads going in to Yalta were blockaded. The next morning well before dawn Krimea Rada was secured in Simferopol. The rest is history, a done deal.

What would you have had us do, go to some EU or UN court for relief? Right. Not going to happen in this city and this peninsula. VV Putin had zero to do with these actions, it was the citizens of Krimu and Sevastopol who did this, just as it was the citizens who barricaded the Ukraine army and navy in their bases.*

 

[josie_L]

Because it’s the Ukraine that’s been invaded, not RUSSIA, not BRITAIN, not the U.S., so forgive me if my lens is focussed on that ONE but CRUCIAL fact.

p.s. And what business is it of Russia to intervene/invade the Ukraine??? Honestly!!

 

[Darryl1958]

The elephant in the room still being ignored of course is that the US or the UK have zero chance of actually taking over Georgia or Ukraine or Crimea.
The same cannot be said about Russia.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Who’s that then?

Darryl, answer the question please.

 

[Darryl1958]

The elephant in the room still being ignored of course is that the US or the UK have zero chance of actually taking over Georgia or Ukraine or Crimea.
The same cannot be said about Russia.

Still being ignored…

 

[Klemens_Hadwig]

I assume yours is not the prevailing opinion in Poland.

Indeed, it is not the prevailing opinion. But who would want to stand against the west, which had introduced the wonders of Playboy, McDonald’s, jeans etc.? In short, the west sells what appeals to base instinct. Once these products are established, their obvious appeal prevents any reversal, or rebirth of the true culture. I have a feeling that many of the political opponents of the Socialist regime in Poland (mind you political, not religious) were simply unhappy at the fact that they could not lay their hands on the aforementioned wonders found in the west. I also know that numerous members of the PZPR (Polish United Workers’ Party) would return with conveniently overlooked western contraband such as Playboy, etc. Many of these party members would eventually find their way or remain in the post-Socialist, pro-western governments.
Ease and materialism is a good bribe.

Russia has also fallen under the influence of such things, particularly in the 1990s. However, since there was a precedent of competition initiated during the USSR. Furthermore, the economic troubles after shock therapy created a perfect rationale for the separation from the west. Competitive precedent, reasonable regional power, and poor results after a western experiment.
It is hardly surprising that Poland received (and still receives) so much money from the EU. Were it not for the subsidies, the entire nation capitalist system would collapse, providing the perfect means of discrediting the west.

 

[Darryl1958]

Does anybody even read Playboy any more, or get their pornography from magazines, for that matter.

Russians are noted for their pornography sites, btw.

 

[boar2roar]

Still being ignored…

You think the US and Uk are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and because of their love of Ukraine? They don’t give two cents about Ukraine except that they are salivating over hurting their geopolitical foe Russia. So they tried flexing their muscles and began to take places like Crimea with a coup government and Russian was supposed to sit their like a helpless minnow whereas if anything similar happened to posh boy or the US Mccain would be leading the bombs away charge.

 

[boar2roar]

Does anybody even read Playboy any more, or get their pornography from magazines, for that matter.

Russians are noted for their pornography sites, btw.

I’m also polish and it is true that western liberalism (thanks to forces like the PO party) is spreading very quickly into Poland. The demonization of catholic priests, catholic media, and traditionalists from Poland by the pro european liberal elite would make people on this forum sick but that gets no press from the western media because its team west…

At least Russian leadership doesn’t bless planned parenthood and is trying something different than a liberal secular regime that is brainwashed as the only way to run a government.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Indeed, it is not the prevailing opinion. But who would want to stand against the west, which had introduced the wonders of Playboy, McDonald’s, jeans etc.? In short, the west sells what appeals to base instinct. Once these products are established, their obvious appeal prevents any reversal, or rebirth of the true culture. I have a feeling that many of the political opponents of the Socialist regime in Poland (mind you political, not religious) were simply unhappy at the fact that they could not lay their hands on the aforementioned wonders found in the west. I also know that numerous members of the PZPR (Polish United Workers’ Party) would return with conveniently overlooked western contraband such as Playboy, etc. Many of these party members would eventually find their way or remain in the post-Socialist, pro-western governments.
Ease and materialism is a good bribe.

Russia has also fallen under the influence of such things, particularly in the 1990s. However, since there was a precedent of competition initiated during the USSR. Furthermore, the economic troubles after shock therapy created a perfect rationale for the separation from the west. Competitive precedent, reasonable regional power, and poor results after a western experiment.
It is hardly surprising that Poland received (and still receives) so much money from the EU. Were it not for the subsidies, the entire nation capitalist system would collapse, providing the perfect means of discrediting the west.

No one has to buy what the West sells. I admit to being shocked at what Western trash many are drawn to - I am not. I have not been in a McDonalds for over 20 years. I don’t even drink Coca-Cola or any kind of soft drink. My parents taught me to avoid that stuff right here in the good old USA. It is called free will (and good taste). To reduce the West to a mere supplier of superficial junk is just ignorance. If you are struggling with attachment to this stuff, not sure that is the West’s fault…

 

[Darryl1958]

I’m also polish and it is true that western liberalism (thanks to forces like the PO party) is spreading very quickly into Poland. The demonization of catholic priests, catholic media, and traditionalists from Poland by the pro european liberal elite would make people on this forum sick but that gets no press from the western media because its team west…

At least Russian leadership doesn’t bless planned parenthood and is trying something different than a liberal secular regime that is brainwashed as the only way to run a government.

Britain is a very liberal country to move to, if it is the Russian lifestyle that is what is you deepest desire.

Understandably though, there is not as much economic opportunity in Russia for Russophiles as there exists in Western Europe, so from what I gather, England has a burgeoning Polish community now.