Dangerous Catholics

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Polak said:
Would you consider well known people such as Joe Biden, Michael Moore, Piers Morgan and others, who claim they are Catholics (and probably believe they are) to be dangerous, because they are giving people a false image of what Catholicism is and accepting sin as being completely okay?

I’m not getting into a left or right debate here,
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Dangerous?

Well… almost by definition. actual LEFTISM is antiChristian in nature

That does not equate to - The Political Right is therefore angelic…

As for Any who are ID’d as ‘Catholic’
andn who are DisObedient to Catholic Teachings
such as any who are Pro-ABORTION and Pro-SameSex Unions?

By default - they are in Grave Sin.

I’m not claiming that they’ll wind up in Hell… for that IS Judgmental
 
Both parties here in the States have taken positions that go against Catholic teaching, but this president has repeatedly taken positions and has backed programs that has hurt a great many innocent people. Plus his behavior in general violates Catholic social teachings in a variety of areas that especially included children and women. To try and justify that by comparing Trump to someone else is a disingenuous and blatantly immoral tactic.

But what I especially believe is highly immoral and “anti-Catholic” is the fact that so many of the Trump supporters cannot bring themselves to blame Trump for anything! Anytime something is pointed out about Trump, they immediately look for an excuse to try and justify his words and actions by using “false equivalencies” or just pooh-poohing it away. That is blatantly immoral because even if the equivalency were to be correct, Catholic teachings do not allow us to justify immoral behavior by taking positions like “Well, Johnny did it too!!!”.

The fact of the matter is that there is no moral justification whatsoever for so many of Trump’s words and actions, so for some to not cite and condemn them is basic immorality in and of itself. IOW, “two wrongs don’t make a right” under our teachings.

And, just to be clear, I hold Dems to the same standards as Pubs and independents.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
Right and I think this is where the OP was going with this thread. Should the Church, clergy or laity, speak up when Catholics twist or misuse Church teaching or the words of the Pope for their own political or personal agenda, twisting of words or Church teaching that will influence others in the wrong direction.
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The reaction to the new statement of the Pope Emeritus is going to be quite a lively one, and is sure to throw up a few of those conditions
 
I completely agree with this. However, the Church generally is wary as to how far to go in regards to denouncing political leaders by name.
 
Metis1 said:
Both parties here in the States have taken positions that go against Catholic teaching, but this president
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There is no comparison. the Dems are pushing agendas directly opposite what the church teaches. The GOP may be more evangelical but most of the policies are still Christian.

orange man bad, we get it, but he isn’t the issue. he is being used to distract people from the anti-religious agenda of the left. whatever party they belong to!
 
. . . Trump . . . is VERY much the issue, especially since the congressional Pubs lack the morals and gumption to stand up to him and put the country ahead of tribal politics. When they allowed Trump to put children in cages in order to “send a message” as Trump repeatedly stated, with seven of these children dying that is the first time this has happened in U.S. history when they’ere in custody of the CBP, that is the antithesis of Catholic social teachings. When they won’t stand up to Trump’s racism, it’s not just Trump that has a severe moral defect.

I don’t use what amounts to smokescreens to try and cover up the reality, and I don’t appreciate they being used by someone else with either. Depravity is depravity, and to try and cover up depravity is also depravity in and of itself. It’s important to call a spade “a spade”, regardless as to who’s spade it is.
 
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CAF will never provide a clear picture of anything until it gets a down-vote button. The “ratio” is important information that is sadly missing here.
 
Metis1 said:
The “orange man” is VERY much the issue,
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his opponents are more dangerous to the religious,

the policies are what is important,

it is tragic, but caging kids is not new, why did the kids die? because of the overwhelming influx due to the lure of the leftist sanctuary cities and medical issues brought in. if the rules were followed there would be less illegal immigration and less need to cage anybody. why didn’t congress fund the issue?
Metis1 said:
Depravity is depravity, and to try and cover up depravity is also depravity in and of itself. It’s important to call a spade “a spade”, regardless as to who’s spade it is.
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are you calling a spade a spade or just Trump?

you don’t consider the policies the left is pushing depraved? even many of the third-party candidates are pushing depraved issues.

in the current PC culture, a third-party candidate has practically zero chance of winning

it amazes me people are willing to suffer the religious consequences just because of TDS!
 
upant said:
in the current PC culture, a third-party candidate has practically zero chance of winning
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This defeatist attitude seems to be endemic in modern day Americans. It isn’t a case of needing a third-party candidate to win the coming election. It’s about forcing real change. If every genuine Catholic got behind the American Solidarity Party whose platform is Catholic/Christian in every way, that would be an incredible message sent about what American Catholic want in their leaders.

I think the big problem is that the culture of esteeming the individual has resulted in a loss of understanding the power of the group to change things in their environment. Hence people are left feeling my single vote is meaningless in the big picture so I’ll just give it to one dunce so the other dunce doesn’t win.
 
Emeraldlady said:
This defeatist attitude seems to be endemic in modern day Americans
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the word is realistic,

if you don’t pick a candidate that can win, that aligns the closest to your beliefs, you have to live with other people’s choices. these choices may not be what you want.
 
It’s almost impossible to have a serious discussion with so many of the Trump supporters who will do anything to twist things, including inventing false assertions as to what my motivations supposedly are and then also making “false equivalencies”. Post #90 is just one example of that.

I simply do not have the time nor the desire to constantly refute these allegations.
 
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Smooth said:
Some of these men OP has mentioned are obviously ”matured” in age, although perhaps confused in their spiritual journey. But I dont think that their claim to believe in the church or call themselves catholic hurts the church in any way. They are engaging in debate, not hurting anyone.
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My concern over these matured Catholics, mentioned in the OP, is not just for their souls but, (and this is coming from a mother’s perspective), the influence they have on youth. Seems like people used to be concerned about how youth were influenced but not so much anymore.

I think the fact that the “dangerous Catholics” mentioned are older and still fighting against the Church shows that growing older does not necessarily include maturing spiritually.

So when Catholics such as Nancy Pelosi or Kathleen Sebelius stand up and say they are fighting for “women’s healthcare” which transfers to abortion rights and young women hear that, they are led in to wrong and painful choices because these are the influences on young women.
Smooth said:
They are engaging in debate, not hurting anyone.
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I do believe they are hurting people.
Smooth said:
the pillars of our belief still holds up and stands firm.
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This is true but we have to respond with our own faith in what the Church teaches.
 
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And JFK was a serial adulterer. Not sure what you think you have proved.

It is fine by me if you hate Trump I am not fond of him either. However, he has done and is doing more for pro life than any President you can name, including his nominations for judges.

Sadly, you appear to conflate the character of the President, with his accomplishments - which he most certainly has not done on his own. Can he be accused of immorality? Don’t bother to respond to that question as we all know the answer.

I don’t choose a President for his lack of moral failings in a particular area; I believe it was St. Paul who said we are all sinners.

Changing laws and regulations is not “pandering”; it is changing laws and regulations, and those are what impact people…
 
Metis1 said:
When they allowed Trump to put children in cages in order to “send a message” as Trump repeatedly stated, with seven of these children dying that is the first time this has happened in U.S. history when they’ere in custody of the CBP, that is the antithesis of Catholic social teachings. When they won’t stand up to Trump’s racism, it’s not just Trump that has a severe moral defect.
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A) it is not racism; it is law. Enter another country illegally and see what happens. It iwll be far more egregious than that the US does to illegals. B) Obama caged them too; I don’t recall hearing you object to that.

Catholic Social Teaching also says that one is to uphold the laws of the country in which one is. Amazing how the liberals just slide right over that one.

Tribal politics is a hoot - which Party is that? The one which wants laws to be obeyed?
 
Again, it’s impossible to have a serious discussion with those who use “false equivalencies” and try to justify immoral actions by saying that someone else did it too.

I feel wrong is wrong and right is right, and that we should be intelligent and honest enough to know which is which and then act accordingly. After all, I don’t believe Jesus would want anything less.

If one tries to justify Trump’s racism, that’s on them because there’s many examples of him doing that. If one ignores Trump’s myriads of lies, that’s on them as well. If one ignores what the Mueller Report concluded on Article 2 in regards to Trump’s “obstruction of justice”, that’s on them as well.

The “ends don’t justify the means”, imo, so one should consider that when it comes to the ramped-up budget deficit under Trump and who eventually is going to pay for that. And is money more important than morals? Maybe some should ask their priest what he thinks about that.

I don’t make excuses for wrong-doing and illegal actions regardless of which party they belong to, and I would hope that others feel the same way but, unfortunately, some don’t share that same sentiment.

BTW, Trump’s move to put children in cages was political as he admitted when he repeatedly stated that he was doing this “to send a message”. Obama’s was on the basis of necessity and circumstances based on the American law that forbids children to be put into jail or prison with their parent(s). Thus, the motivations were quite different, and no child died in custody under Obama’s watch on this.
 
Metis1 said:
I don’t make excuses for wrong-doing and illegal actions regardless of which party they belong to, and I would hope that others feel the same way but, unfortunately, some don’t share that same sentiment.
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why haven’t you said something about the wrong doing of the democrats on moral issues? you may have to live under their rules.

this is what the election is about, not trumps character.

it is the moral issues.

abortion until and now even after birth (VA gov)
transgenderism
anti-christian politics
identity politics
cheap and readily available contraception
contraception mandated insurance (little sisters of the poor)
homosexuality, you must agree with their same-sex agenda
breaking the seal of the confessional
allowing tax paid abortions
religious test for supreme court judges
forcing catholic hospitals to perform abortions
forcing the catholic church to perform same-sex marriages
forcing the catholic church to pay taxes
where mentioning Christ will be considered discrimination
etc.
 
I didn’t intend for the discussion to get political, but since it has, I just wanted to point out that yesterday there were three stories up on the Catholic News Agency (a fairly reliable source of news).

One was about a proposal to prevent abortions being tax deductible, to stop them being considered out of pocket medical care. It was a proposal put forward by a Republican senator and co sponsored by other Republican senators.

The second was about Trump announcing rules to protect religious freedom and equal access to grants by religious groups. It states ‘Currently, 37 states have some form of “Blaine Amendments,” many of them passed during a time of anti-Catholic vitriol to forbid public funding of “sectarian” institutions’. Looks like Trump wants to change this.

Then a third article was about a Utah legislator’s proposal to try and force priests to have to break their Seal of Confession when it involves sexual abuse. The legislator is a Democrat.

Now I am not a US citizen but things like this make it easier for me to understand why Catholics would prefer Republicans and Trump to Democrats. When was the last time the Democrats put forward a legislation that was pro Catholic or pro Christian?
 
upant said:
it is the moral issues.

abortion until and now even after birth (VA gov)
transgenderism
anti-christian politics
identity politics
cheap and readily available contraception
contraception mandated insurance (little sisters of the poor)
homosexuality, you must agree with their same-sex agenda
breaking the seal of the confessional
allowing tax paid abortions
religious test for supreme court judges
forcing catholic hospitals to perform abortions
forcing the catholic church to perform same-sex marriages
forcing the catholic church to pay taxes
where mentioning Christ will be considered discrimination
etc.
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Most of the above, frankly, is nonsensical, especially since it includes a stereotype of supposedly what Dems believe and want, but I have neither the time nor the desire to litigate all of these.

But either way, please note that you have slipped into the “Well, Johnny did it too!” argument whereas two wrongs supposedly then make a right. I’m not a Democrat-- I’m an independent-- who’ll also call out Dems and independents on actions that I believe are immoral under Judeo-Christian teachings and our Constitution here in the States.

IOW, I’m definitely not into “tribal” politics, but so many here definitely are.
 
There are a lot of phonies out there, be they Democrat, Republican, conservative, or liberal.
 
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