Deciding to homeschool?

[Lemuel]

People pay for outside tutors and lessons, too…should that be taken off their tax bill?

Absolutely

Your using optional items does not negate your child’s right to a free public education.

Free? So the teachers don’t get paid? The buildings magically appear? There’s no cost for utilities? I would like to know what world you live in where those things are free.

You are incredibly blessed that you were able to homeschool your children.

Not really. It comes at a great sacrifice that I’m willing to make. And I’m not asking for you to pay for it.

And if something happened to you and your wife had to go back to work tomorrow?

I hope that doesn’t happen, but that’s not your responsibility if it does.

“Who decides every child gets the opportunity for a free, appropriate education?” The constitution, that’s who.

Okay. Show me where in the Constitution it says that.

Did your homeschool curriculum teach you that?

My kids know the Constitution well. That’s one of the areas where we excel.

Besides that, are you kidding me? So my friend’s child who needs SPED help that their parents can’t afford out of pocket, my friend whose husband abandoned her, the man who has 5 kids whose wife died and is barely keeping afloat. NONE of them can afford what their children need. NONE could even pay even a few dollars towards private school tuition and NONE are in a place to homeschool. This situation is repeated hundreds of times over.

Nope. I’m not kidding you. That’s where charities and churches should be taking over.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Here you go:

It’s in state constitutions as backed up by the 14th ammendment of the US consitution.

Your Right to Equality in Education | American Civil Liberties Union

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-7-4-c-education-and-the-14th-amendment

 

[Lemuel]

Hahahaha . . . that’s just someone’s distorted opinion. I’m still waiting.

 

[Lemuel]

Well, I’d suggest you look up sovereign citizen, then. You may be happier pulling off that than appropriately engaging in society.

Don’t need to.
I’ve known about that for decades.

Since you are so dead-set on being a non-contributor, it’s very apparent that nothing I can say will change your mind. It’s a shame that you feel the way you do.

On the contrary. I contribute 100% to my kid’s educations and a lot to others.

I will make sure that my kids stay far away from your kids so they aren’t exposed to the poison vitriol that I find just as much, if not more harmful as all those big, bad things in public school.

That will be a trick. You don’t even know who they are. How are you going to stay away from them?

I still want to know what “free” education is

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’m not an ACLU fan girl.
I can see the anxiety of paying taxes for a school system that is teaching and promoting things that go against my value system.
I pay taxes anyway.
I will say this–if all things were equal. If the public school teachers stuck to teaching the three Rs, or STEM or whatever the heck the current rah-rah fad is, I do see the value in paying for a school system that I opted out of, for the good of the community.
I don’t love my tax dollars going for “reproductive services” and sex Ed that sneak behind parents’ backs to indoctrinate.
But I vote and write letters.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’m not an ACLU fan girl.
I can see the anxiety of paying taxes for a school system that is teaching and promoting things that go against my value system.
I pay taxes anyway.
I will say this–if all things were equal. If the public school teachers stuck to teaching the three Rs, or STEM or whatever the heck the current rah-rah fad is, I do see the value in paying for a school system that I opted out of, for the good of the community.
I don’t love my tax dollars going for “reproductive services” and sex Ed that sneak behind parents’ backs to indoctrinate.
But I vote and write letters.

I might not agree with everything that happens in the public forum, but I still see it as my duty to contribute (by which I mean financially) to the public interests so a parent can send their child to school for free (ie no cost to that particular parent). Because that parent is relying on me and other strangers (those who have earned enough to be subject to taxation, whether they like it or not) to provide what that parent cannot. When it comes to the basics–food, clothing, shelter and K12 education–If I am paying taxes I feel those are the things I feel duty-bound to help society provide for those who cannot.

And when it comes to those homeschoolers who think they are “holier than tho” they make themselves known fairly quickly. At the last homeschool picnic a mother said how she took her children to the town beach and they’d wait for the school busses to pass and laugh and wave their beach toys. I commented how very rude she was and made sure that I stayed away from her and her children for the rest of the event. Cruelty has no place in education, no matter the education.

 

[Lemuel]

but I still see it as my duty to contribute to the public interests so a parent can send their child to school for free.

Free? Tell me how it’s free.

 

[Lemuel]

I still see it as my duty to contribute to the public interests

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you also see it as MY duty to contribute. If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. But if I didn’t then what you are saying is that you know how I should spend my money better than I do.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

they’d wait for the school busses to pass and laugh and wave their beach toys

That’s kinda…mean

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

they’d wait for the school busses to pass and laugh and wave their beach toys

That’s kinda…mean

Oh, it’s incredibly mean. You’ll find that just like there are bad contingents in public school and private schools there are also homeschoolers who are downright bullies and jerks.

Fortunately, unlike when I was a child these people who do treat children who go to different schools and the adults that parent them with cruelty are basically seen as the bullies they are. 20 years ago, I’m sure she would have been very popular. I was glad to see that a good number of the moms (and dads) told her outright how repulsive they found her behavior. Most of the people who attended were not elitists who thought that their duties extended to their children alone.

 

[Lemuel]

Cruelty has no place in education, no matter the education.

Amen to that. I would be all over my kids if they ever did that.

 

[Lemuel]

I can see the anxiety of paying taxes for a school system that is teaching and promoting things that go against my value system.

It’s not just that it goes against my values. It may go against others, too.

Jesus commanded us to feed the poor and care for the sick, to visit the widows and fatherless in their afflictions, to care for the least. We are obligated to do that. But I see nowhere where Jesus told us to compel our brothers and sisters to do the same, When you vote for social programs like public education, you are compelling others who may not agree with you to part with their money to support something that you believe in. That is immoral.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

You belong to a society. It isn’t about YOU and it isn’t about your kids. EVERYONE shares the cost of education

You shouldn’t waste your time debating this guy. As they say in the home school guide, “You can’t fix stupid.”

I stopped responding. I don’t believe in posting memes but I realized at some point that it is one of those “well someone’s wrong on the internet” scenarios. I remember people like this were quite common when I was young and I saw through them even at a young age. Fortunately, today, people like the above poster are rare and not very welcome in homeschool circles.

 

[KathleenT]

I think you are being a bit hard on him.

Public schools aren’t all equal. There really are places where public schools are little more than inattentive babysitters and full of crime and violence. The kids don’t learn much.

Paying for that is infuriating. Many parents want more for their kids but simply can’t afford it. The voucher system would help them.

 

[JetteZ]

One thing struggling schools don’t need is the reduction of funds that voucher programs facilitate. Social services, like public schools, aren’t businesses that do better through competition.

We spend thousands on Catholic school and yet never balk at paying our tax obligations because 1. We recognize the blessings we have that others don’t and 2. We will still benefit by having a better educated population than if public schools, even crappy ones, didn’t exist.

 

[KathleenT]

That’s not always true. In my hometown we pour more and more money into the schools and they continue to get worse. Money alone doesn’tsolve the issue. you need wise allocation of resources and accountability. But the public school system has practically barricaded itself against any true accountability, especially from the parents.

How do we know a little competition won’t help the schools? We have never really tried it.

Throwing good money after bad is not a solution.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

One thing struggling schools don’t need is the reduction of funds that voucher programs facilitate. Social services, like public schools, aren’t businesses that do better through competition.

We spend thousands on Catholic school and yet never balk at paying our tax obligations because 1. We recognize the blessings we have that others don’t and 2. We will still benefit by having a better educated population than if public schools, even crappy ones, didn’t exist.

I was thinking of what to say and it’s THIS.

Very, very well said.

I talked to my husband. We have worked hard, and are working hard, for our lifestyle. We are also very lucky for things to have worked out for us like they did. I am adopted. If I wasn’t there’s no way on God’s green earth that my biological parents would have paid a dime or lifted a finger for me to be educated. And, unfortunately, my case is not rare. What we pay to the state that funds local schools is because that is the only choice for some parents. And remember, not everyone is Catholic and not every parent wants a Catholic education for their child. In my area, only 17% are even marginally Catholic…so “Catholic Charities” sponsoring their child may not even be appealing.

If the public schools are bad, withdrawing from social obligations to support the less fortunate is NOT the way to go about things. You can change laws, you can advocate, you can volunteer. Don’t like what’s happening? Do for yours and then go out and BE the change that you want to see. Part of the issue with why public schools are in the state they are in is because EVERYONE likes to whine and NO ONE wants to do anything—and if they do it’s only for their kids.

I’m no advocate for endless dollars to fund public schools, but I also don’t believe that withdrawing all funds would help. Certinally, things like more charters, private and specialty schools via vouchers would change a number of things for a large portion of students…but in reality, much of it comes back to the parents. When you have parents who care, their kids will succeed. No money is going to fix absentee parenting or many of the other problems faced by those who are suffering. But depriving already disadvantaged kids of the opportunity to go to school at no cost to said parents is not doing right, either.

 

[KathleenT]

Have you tried to change the public schools?

Many parents have and have met roadblock after roadblock. Many parents volunteer their time and resources. You are right, they can’t make up for absentee parents.

All of you are talking about how “blessed” you are because you can do both. Some can’t do both and the voucher system would allow them the exact same choice you are blessed enough to be able to make.

The voucher system will not destroy public education or leave kids behind. The public school system might consolidate itself into a smaller system, but it won’t go completely away. That’s just a fear tactic.

 

[JetteZ]

How do we know a little competition won’t help the schools? We have never really tried it.

Sure we have; that’s exactly what private schools are already. And what happens? There is less money and less caring parents available for the public schools that most need it - and I say that as one of those parents who has abandoned a school district that needs parents like me.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I never said I was opposed to a voucher system. If that’s the advocacy route you find most effective, go for it. I do think that most of the people complaining about public schools have never lifted a finger to make a difference.

The premise of the argument is weither or not funds should be made to educate children through tax dollars. Even with a voucher system, people would STILL need to pay for it through taxes, and like you say some of that money would still go to public schools.

My point is, and has always been, that every adult who earns enough money to pay taxes should be paying into educating the next generation through those taxes. Many people today choose not to have kids. They are still responsible to the public for helping to educate all children. Having a child you choose to school yourself or pay for private schools dosn’t exempt a person from what they owe to society.

When it comes to vouchers how government chooses to disperse those funds–so long as it gives those who need it the ability to not have to pay for their child–does not matter to me.