Defense posts George Zimmerman photo from night of Trayvon Martin shooting

[JimR-OCDS]

The 911 call says otherwise. He was out of his vehicle when the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow Martin.

Listen to the interview and they play the 911 call and the detectives ask him where he was when he was asked if he was following the suspect.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here it is again;

In a statement he gave to police the same night he shot and killed the unarmed teen, Zimmerman wrote that he was returning to his vehicle after a police dispatcher told him over the phone to stop pursuing Martin.

**“The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect and that an officer was in route,” **Zimmerman wrote in the statement, which was released to the public for the first time on Thursday morning. tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/george_zimmerman_statement_dispatcher_stop_trayvon_martin.php

Bold is my emphasis on what Zimmerman said about the dispatcher’s instructions.

Clearly, Zimmerman understood that the dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect, but people in here want to play semantics because the dispatcher didn’t use precise wording, “Do not follow.”

Anyway, I give up.

Jim

 

[kelvinf]

Here it is again;

Bold is my emphasis on what Zimmerman said about the dispatcher’s instructions.

Clearly, Zimmerman understood that the dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect, but people in here want to play semantics because the dispatcher didn’t use precise wording, “Do not follow.”

Anyway, I give up.

Jim

Boy, there have been tens of Trayvon/Zimmerman threads here and never before has someone questioned the interpretation of “we don’t need you to do that.” as some have done on this thread.

It’s really not worth a second of a debate.

 

[St_Francis]

I recommend you folks go here and listen to the interview Zimmerman had with the detectives.

Fact is, Zimmerman was in his car when the dispatcher asked if he was following the suspect, and Zimmerman said he was and in fact got out of the car and followed him.
In fact, in the interview, it’s sounds like Zimmerman actually chased Martin, for he said Martin was running away.

Anyway, besure to listen to the interview with the detectives and see the holes in Zimmerman’s account.

friendsofjustice.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/capehart-zimmermans-story-doesnt-add-up/

Jim

What makes you think Zimmerman was in his truck when the dispatcher asked if he were following and he said he was? Doesn’t it seem more likely that Zimmerman was, ahhh, oit of his truck following Martin when he told the dispatcher that he was following Martin? And not inside his truck?

(I wwould be happy to listen to your links, but I’m on an ipod whose output broke )

 

[Dawnia]

Boy, there have been tens of Trayvon/Zimmerman threads here and never before has someone questioned the interpretation of “we don’t need you to do that.” as some have done on this thread.

It’s really not worth a second of a debate.

You apparently weren’t around during the previous thread? This has been rehashed over and over and over again. It’s got to be like the 20th time this has been brought up.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What makes you think Zimmerman was in his truck when the dispatcher asked if he were following and he said he was? Doesn’t it seem more likely that Zimmerman was, ahhh, oit of his truck following Martin when he told the dispatcher that he was following Martin? And not inside his truck?

(I wwould be happy to listen to your links, but I’m on an ipod whose output broke )

In the interview, Zimmerman was asked if he was inside of his truck, by the detective. and Zimmerman said he was. He got out of the truck because he lost sight of Martin and said he walked toward the area he saw Martin running, before he lost sight of him

Listen to the interview.

Jim

 

[JohnVictor]

Here it is again;

Bold is my emphasis on what Zimmerman said about the dispatcher’s instructions.

Clearly, Zimmerman understood that the dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect, but people in here want to play semantics because the dispatcher didn’t use precise wording, “Do not follow.”

Anyway, I give up.

Jim

“…..the dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect and that officers were in route. As I headed back to my truck the suspect emerged from the darkness and said you got a problem?  I said “No”.  The suspect said ‘You do now”.   

[scribd.com/fullscreen/97802972?access_key=key-2nu7o65qvwjxh462nfhw](http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/97802972?access_key=key-2nu7o65qvwjxh462nfhw)
Pg 2

And again, the prosecution has **admitted they have no evidence at this time that refutes his (GZ's) statement** that he was attacked by Martin as he walked back to his truck.

That’s pretty easy to comprehend stuff there.      

I suggest you send the prosecution your map and theory on what "really" happened. They appear to need any help they can get.     



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[kelvinf]

The problem is too many people think class envy is social justice.

If you are relying on the state to solve huge problems at the individual level by throwing piles of cash at it you are part of the problem. We have 50 years of proof that doesn’t work.

Nopes. Social justice has got nothing to do with class envy.

According to the Catholic Social Doctrine, political authorities have a responsibility for the common good. I will shed more light on that in another post.

 

[kelvinf]

We probably would not need anywhere near as much “charity” in the form of government aid were it not for the lack of personal involvement with those in need. The more the government has poured into “charity,” the worse things have gotten.

You are mixing up charity and social justice. The former is the responsibility of the Church and Laity while the latter is the responsibility of the state.
The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.
Deus Caritas Est 28a

I notice that government aid to those in need in Europe is bankrupting several nations…

There are other reasons why nations have unacceptable levels of debts including big daddy, America. I don’t think it is due to social responsibility.

 

[kelvinf]

You are not an American and you don’t know the problems of African-Americans in this country. I don’t pretend to know all their problems either. I can tell you the story from a white European point of view. I was not born in this country. My mother is French and moved to this country in 1957. My father was born here of German parents who schooled their family German, as was the custom of Germans in this country until the 1940’s. English was not spoken in the home. We had German newspapers, German schools, etc. Even in our home, as a child, we were not allowed to speak English. German was the language my parents had in common, as my mother did not know English and my father did not know French when they married. On Saturdays we went to German school.

White Americans have a huge guilt issue towards African-Americans due to slavery. In 1965 we tried to assuage that guilt by passing the “Great Society” which offered a “safety net” to the poor. Prior to that we had built housing projects, like Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis. Google it. It was a great place for lower income Americans to live within their means. The majority of American children were born to married parents and grew up with a father and mother. Once the Great Society went into effect, money only went to single women with children. While this was a noble idea, what actually happened was that more and more women had children out of wedlock because they could get help. Today, the majority of African-American children in our country are born in single parent households with no involvement by the father. Crime became rampant in these housing projects. Stealing pipes resulting in water disasters, drugs, etc. People were destroying their own habitat. Pruitt-Igoe has since been blown up.

Tons of money is thrown at our public education system. It costs more to educate a child in a public school system than in a private Catholic school system. Money doesn’t solve the problem. It’s the culture of getting good grades is a “whitey thing.” The parents aren’t involved because they haven’t learned parenting skills. I know this first hand from the shelter where I volunteer. I learned this from my sister who rocks babies at Crisis Nursery. The moms don’t talk to their babies. Google the average vocabulary of an African-American child compared to that of a white American.

White Americans are affected too, but the African-American is disproportionately affected.

They “safety net” has become the permanent source of income for too many people in our country.

1 out of 6 households in this country is food insecure. Why?? Food stamps are supposed to supplement the grocery bill, not be the sole source. Are people so helpless they can’t get to a St. Vincent de Paul food pantry or the dozens of other food pantries?

This is a short synopsis of what is going on in our country. You can google for the actual statistics.

For many years my children and I delivered Thanksgving meals to food insecure households. It was one of those “it’s good for us and it’s good for them” journeys.

I truly believe charity is necessary for both the giver and the recipient.

PS, I am a divorced single mom. I was divorced when my children were 6 and 9.

Thankyou Christine for your detailed post! My response will follow when I wake up.

Nite

 

[JohnVictor]

You are mixing up charity and social justice. The former is the responsibility of the Church and Laity while the latter is the responsibility of the state.
The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.
Deus Caritas Est 28a

There are other reasons why nations have unacceptable levels of debts including big daddy, America. I don’t think it is due to social responsibility.

Social "Justice" - Social "Responsibility".    Aren't those actually code words for Socialism or Communism?    

Not saying either is bad.

.



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[St_Francis]

Social "Justice" - Social "Responsibility".    Aren't those actually code words for Socialism or Communism?    

Not saying either is bad.

.



.

**Catholic **social justice is different from the perverted uses secularists have made of the term and is not to be confused with Communism or Socialism.

 

[St_Francis]

You are mixing up charity and social justice. The former is the responsibility of the Church and Laity while the latter is the responsibility of the state.
The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.
Deus Caritas Est 28a

I don’t think you understand what the Popes are saying in their writings. Pope John Paul II in the encyclical Centissimus Annus explained the a welfare state which creates dependency in the people is also wrong.

There are other reasons why nations have unacceptable levels of debts including big daddy, America. I don’t think it is due to social responsibility.

Well over half our Federal budget (not counting state expenditures) goes towards “safety net” types of programs, if you include care for the elderly.

The worst of it is, like the young mother in the UK who spent £2000 on Christmas gifts* for her children, is that there is a gap for those who are trying to work their way up and out of poverty.

*Thread in World News forum

 

[JohnVictor]

What makes you think Zimmerman was in his truck when the dispatcher asked if he were following and he said he was? Doesn’t it seem more likely that Zimmerman was, ahhh, oit of his truck following Martin when he told the dispatcher that he was following Martin? And not inside his truck?

(I wwould be happy to listen to your links, but I’m on an ipod whose output broke )

Nice suppositions and suppositions made from suppositions from all…  and all inadmissible.   

Witness Zimmerman’s statement stands on this matter unless and until state can ever come up with evidence that refutes it.

 

[Linda_Marie]

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS
Linda Marie

The point I was making was the accusation that the dispatcher did not tell Zimmerman to stop following Martin. Zimmerman’s own written statement, confirm that he understood that the dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect.

Now if Zimmerman wrote that he confirmed to the dispatcher that he was following the suspect and told not to do that, how does it change to that he wasn’t following Martin?

Trayvon Martin was apparently a 17 year old undisciplined punk thug, drug dealing, thief and wannabe gangsta…

Much controversy has been “created” by the media about the fact Zimmerman was “following” Trayvon, as if that represented some form of unusual behavior.

Zimmerman was on Neighborhood watch patrol, of course he’s gonna follow the suspicious person. That’s what patrols do. See something suspicious – Say something to police – and Keep watch. DUH?
<…>
Much false controversy has been made about the police dispatcher instructing Zimmerman not to follow the person (Trayvon), but it really is a moot point. It is standard protocol for all operators to say “do not engage” because they are told to do so by police departments fearful of being sued. As soon as the police dispatcher told him not to follow, he stopped, turned around and attempted to walk back to his vehicle.

To paraphrase from Zimmerman’s statement - he was following Martin in his vehicle. He got out to check street signs when the dispatcher asked the exact location of the suspect. The dispatcher did not tell Zimmerman not to follow the suspect until after Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Zimmerman was not following Martin when he was out of his vehicle; he was looking for street signs. He was headed back to his vehicle when Martin accosted him and assaulted him.

There is at least one witness who stated that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, pummeling him, corroborating Zimmerman’s account. I am sure the unedited tapes corroborate Zimmerman’s account of his conversation with the dispatcher.

The problem is with the edited tapes being played on NBC and the prosecutor omitting to mention the injuries Zimmerman received in her affidavit to the judge to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. It is also with the prosecution withholding evidence from the defense, like the colour photo of Zimmerman’s injuries he received from Martin.

In addition, the media continued to portray Martin as a child, posting a photo of him at 12, rather than the 18 he was.

http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon_martin-01.jpg?w=960&h=434

Finally - Proof Zimmerman was Assaulted by Treyvon Martin!!!

The attorney for George Zimmerman said he is “frustrated” that prosecutors withheld a color photo of the Florida gunman that could bolster his case that Zimmerman was being beaten when he shot Trayvon Martin.

<…>

“If I had had that picture in my hand on April 11 …,” he said, referring to the date when Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder.

Florida rules governing discovery require that original photos be submitted, but O’Mara says that the discovery phase has been rife with issues.

Motion to take additional deposition

2 - That the State Attorney’s office disclosed Sanford police investigator William Erwin in its initial discovery Exhibit and Demand for Reciprocal Discovery dated May 14, 2012. The State also disclosed the report of a voice stress analysis test performed on Mr. Zimmerman prepared by Investigator Erwin, (Attached as exhibit A) The undersigned has not received any other report from the State Attorney’s Office authored by Investigator Erwin. Further, no other report or summary has been received documenting any other involvement by Investigator Erwin.
<…>
4 - <…> During the O’Connor - Erwin conversation, Investigator Erwin stated that he was the investigative officer during the time that lead investigator Christopher Serino had Mr. Tracy Martin in that office. Investigator Serino played the 911 tape which contained, in the background, screams for help for Mr. Martin to hear. Investigator Serino then asked Mr. Martin whether or not those screams were the voice of his son and Mr. Martin stated, ‘No’.

So, the prosecutor’s office withheld the colour photo, providing the defense only with a black and white photocopy instead, and the witness statement from Trayvon Martin’s father that the voice calling for help was not his son, both of which corroborate Zimmerman’s statement that he was under assault and in fear for his life when he shot Trayvon Martin.

What other exculpatory evidence have they withheld?

 

[JMJSHJ]

One thing I would like to know is what do hispanics think about this case when the media refers George Zimmerman as a white man and not a hispanic.

 

[qui_est_ce]

One thing I would like to know is what do hispanics think about this case when the media refers George Zimmerman as a white man and not a hispanic.

I think you mean the invented word “white hispanic” that came into being the day after the shooting.

 

[estesbob]

I think you mean the invented word “white hispanic” that came into being the day after the shooting.

Thats not a first. Back in the days that Houston was ordered to integrate their schools they decided thet henceforth hispanics would be considered “white” which immediately integrate dozens of schools that had previously been deemed segregated schools.

 

[mtbender]

So by this statement, I’m guessing you didn’t look at the link to the map I posted, which shows where Zimmerman’s SUV was parked and where the shooting too place. Zimmerman would’ve had to follow Martin, or have run from Martin, which Zimmerman never claims.

Jim

Your map also shows some other important information…

If we go by the timeline from the Sanford Police, it was about 3 minutes from when Martin began to run till the call reporting screaming. Now, I can’t discern for sure where Martin’s starting point was, but if you r put this into Google maps as walking direction, it is only 4 minutes from the gate of the community to where Martin was staying… Now let’s keep in mind, Martin was not at the gate and was supposedly running…Even if he was not running – like his girlfriend stated, we can presume that he is walking at an average pace (about 4 MPH), which means he would travel about a ¼ mile in that same time….

Possible conclusions:

• Martin was walking backwards at around a 1 mph pace…
• Martin stopped or doubled back

Seems to me this gives a little credence to Zimmerman’s account of things… Zimmerman admitted to following him for about 1 minute before he lost him (according to the 911 transcript). At a moderate pace that would have put Zimmerman in the vicinity of the shooting… Now there is a minute gap between 911 calls where there is some uncertainty, but if Martin would have continued on his way, the math suggests he would have made it home.

 

[JohnVictor]

your map also shows some other important information…

if we go by the timeline from the sanford police, it was about 3 minutes from when martin began to run till the call reporting screaming. Now, i can’t discern for sure where martin’s starting point was, but if you r put this into google maps as walking direction, it is only 4 minutes from the gate of the community to where martin was staying… now let’s keep in mind, martin was not at the gate and was supposedly running…even if he was not running – like his girlfriend stated, we can presume that he is walking at an average pace (about 4 mph), which means he would travel about a ¼ mile in that same time….

Possible conclusions:

• martin was walking backwards at around a 1 mph pace…
• martin stopped or doubled back

seems to me this gives a little credence to zimmerman’s account of things… zimmerman admitted to following him for about 1 minute before he lost him (according to the 911 transcript). At a moderate pace that would have put zimmerman in the vicinity of the shooting… now there is a minute gap between 911 calls where there is some uncertainty, but if martin would have continued on his way, the math suggests he would have made it home.

***wow! ***

:)